[Aranatha]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

The thing that irked me about Shelly was his turn around. He calls me a retard for thinking there could be kills but then says if there are kills I was trying to frame him.

Not entirely. For a fact, we know there is a NK in the form of the vig.

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So he thinks there isn't but then thinks there could be.

No. He was saying he is easily framed if it turns out, against his expectations, that there are NKs, because then vehemently denying there are NKs looks like underestimation of scum at best and as deliberate misinformation at worst. I think he grossly overstated this and panicked there: it is day 1, we know very little for certain.

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It wasn't a bad thing to bring up because both Kesso and Fener say we cannot discount the possibility, yet, Aranatha shows us D day. Last game D day was a similar day at the start of the game with 15 players.

Because the maths doesn't lie. With 15 players, one lynch, one kill/subversion, ceteris paribus it is always that day.

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Two things on my mind at the moment, the first is if town will have a recruier ie the undisclosed role

I will eat my hat if town mirrors scum and has 2 additional roles, both of whom can shut down the recruiter. I know Blend likes making town more scummy and scum more towny but town with the same or more night power + the numbers is bad balance.

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The second is that we should be trying to find the recruiter but so far have been discussing the timelord. The first thing I am going to do after resolution is read up and see if I can spot anything.

We are only discussing the TLs because they are an exotic role type, and because some people say the scum timelord may be able to kill.
I don;t think anyone is going to disagree with the notion that the recruiter is most important, so I honestly don't see why you bring up that there is no discussion on that subject. It is a basic that doesn't need public affirmation.

[Karosis]

I have seen nothing so far of someone looking for the recruiter Aran.

Why would the Vig want to set up Shelly? If there is a NK AND scum don't have it, then that is what Shelly would be saying. His post is very defensive, I wasn't even pointing fingers in his direction. I was voting Barghast, who is yet to post, and possibly would have changed to another low lying individual.

[Aranatha]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

I have seen nothing so far of someone looking for the recruiter Aran.

Like I said, no-one has to say they do. It is logical.
But how do you suggest to go about that business, apart from looking for people who divert the issue away from talking about the recruiter and/or talk a lot about it (the ancient pitfall of being obsessed with your own role. In which case, you are the person most likely to be the recruiter....).
Apart from that, finding the recruiter right now is nigh impossible. The one thing we will hopefully be able to spot is when the recruits do 180s to defend their (new) master.

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Why would the Vig want to set up Shelly? If there is a NK AND scum don't have it, then that is what Shelly would be saying.

I don't think it is the vig doing the set-up. It would be a coincidence of the vig vigging and then someone else (he had you in mind) claiming Shelly was lying because zomg there was a NK so he is clearly scum for discounting the option there would be a NK!

Basically, he hugely overreacted in his statement and I guess that's why he's being lynched. once again, it is not rocket science, nor is there any obvious maliciousness.
To add to that, I'd consider a vig on day 1-2-3 a ridiculously bad use of the ability unless we have 100% proof of someone's scumminess.

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His post is very defensive, I wasn't even pointing fingers in his direction. I was voting Barghast, who is yet to post, and possibly would have changed to another low lying individual.

I think you could also be seen as defensive for trying to explain your reasoning ad nauseum too, but hey

[Gait]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

I have seen nothing so far of someone looking for the recruiter Aran.

Why would the Vig want to set up Shelly? If there is a NK AND scum don't have it, then that is what Shelly would be saying. His post is very defensive, I wasn't even pointing fingers in his direction. I was voting Barghast, who is yet to post, and possibly would have changed to another low lying individual.

And how do you look for a recruiter? All we can look for right now is scum, because unless there is a major slip we won't know whether someone we believe to be scum is the recruiter or the timelord.

As for timelords having NKs I agree with Shelly - it's unlikely. Though I could see scum having some kind of vig like ability, but since they don't need to get rid of someone and only need to reach majority I think even that is unlikely. After all, town doesn't know who their TL is, so he has no protection through others from a lynch, which potentially balanced out that scum has no NK.

[Karosis]

Aranatha, on 28 May 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Since recruits know the recruiter, chances of fuck-ups in that direction seem minimal.
Since CF is name but not alignment, the TLs will be in the dark concerning the alignment of whomever they bring back.
It would be a massive advantage for the scum one to know his recruits through off thread comms.
So I judge that unlikely. Instead, I think they know each other's alt, or at the least the TL knows the recruiter, maybe not vice versa.

You said this earlier Aran but now you say this..

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Apart from that, finding the recruiter right now is nigh impossible. The one thing we will hopefully be able to spot is when the recruits do 180s to defend their (new) master.

So if I understand you, you are contradicting yourself here.



However, you make a good point in the second underlined. So day one we should be looking for maybe the TL possibly deflecting from the Recruiter? We fell upon Shelly due to his defensiveness and we could get lucky but I don't think Shelly's play was "recruiter style play". He did post a lot and you'd think the recruiter would not play that way until he had a few recruits under his belt.

[Aranatha]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Aranatha, on 28 May 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Since recruits know the recruiter, chances of fuck-ups in that direction seem minimal.
Since CF is name but not alignment, the TLs will be in the dark concerning the alignment of whomever they bring back.
It would be a massive advantage for the scum one to know his recruits through off thread comms.
So I judge that unlikely. Instead, I think they know each other's alt, or at the least the TL knows the recruiter, maybe not vice versa.

You said this earlier Aran but now you say this..

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Apart from that, finding the recruiter right now is nigh impossible. The one thing we will hopefully be able to spot is when the recruits do 180s to defend their (new) master.

So if I understand you, you are contradicting yourself here.

I don't think I do.
With the first bit of fuck-ups, I meant recruits lynching the recruiter by accident (or, in case of vig/guard being recruited, them targeting their own boss).
It also minimizes the chance that recruits will man a large part of the train to lynch their own TL as the recruiter probably won't vote for the TL if he/she knows the TL.

It does however open up the opportunity that the recruits give away their recruiter by following him blindly and/or defending him vigorously, that's the 180 I talked about in the second quote.

[Gait]

We have something like 3 hours to go, right? I'm not sold on a Shelly lynch, but I have to leave in 5 minutes and I'm not sure I will be back before timeout, so unless someone else is here who is around longer than me I will hammer before I leave.

[Karosis]

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Only partial CFs will be provided - you will be given the character name, but not their allegiance, unless it is a Timelord who is lynched or killed.

We will only know if Shelly was a Timelord. If he isn't then we will know for sure that he is town as of day two. So the Town timelord should bring Shelly back if he doesn't CF as scum.

[Karosis]

Gait, on 29 May 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

We have something like 3 hours to go, right? I'm not sold on a Shelly lynch, but I have to leave in 5 minutes and I'm not sure I will be back before timeout, so unless someone else is here who is around longer than me I will hammer before I leave.

I thought Aranatha hammered.

[Gait]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Gait, on 29 May 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

We have something like 3 hours to go, right? I'm not sold on a Shelly lynch, but I have to leave in 5 minutes and I'm not sure I will be back before timeout, so unless someone else is here who is around longer than me I will hammer before I leave.

I thought Aranatha hammered.

By my count we only have 7 votes right now.

[Karosis]

I am here to vote, we have a few more hours yet.




4 hours to be more precise.

This post has been edited by Karosis: 29 May 2013 - 08:45 AM

[Gait]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 08:44 AM, said:

I am here to vote, we have a few more hours yet.

Ok.

[Karosis]

A barghast modkill will be bad for town then Aranatha?

[Aranatha]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

A barghast modkill will be bad for town then Aranatha?

15/2 now, 13/3 by the start of tomorrow (mod-kill + lynch/ recruit), 12/4 start of day 3 , 11/5 start of day 4, 10/6 start of day 5.

[Merrid]

I'll be around to hammer if needed too.

Not convinced by a long way on the case but rather lynch than no lynch.

[Ay Estos]

I will admit this is probably prejudice, but I removed from kesso partially because he didnt freak the fuck out over my vote. Ranting at us, with a self vote like a poison cherry on top, doesnt speak to confidence that shelly would be useful to town anyways.

[Merrid]

So, just thinking out loud here;

Recruiting is a Night action. Nights are instant.

The recruited will be told by PM "you have been recruited by <alt x> to scum" before the next day starts.

Should the town TL then reverse time by say 18 hours (to maximise chance of recruited being online)

Recruited is no longer recruited. But knows name of recruiter. Can scream it on thread.

Lynch named recruiter. If not CFing as Lady November lynch the lying bugger who pretended to be recruited.


Or am I missing something here?

[Karosis]

Merrid, on 29 May 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

So, just thinking out loud here;

Recruiting is a Night action. Nights are instant.

The recruited will be told by PM "you have been recruited by <alt x> to scum" before the next day starts.

Should the town TL then reverse time by say 18 hours (to maximise chance of recruited being online)

Recruited is no longer recruited. But knows name of recruiter. Can scream it on thread.

Lynch named recruiter. If not CFing as Lady November lynch the lying bugger who pretended to be recruited.


Or am I missing something here?

We won't know until it happens but it does sound like a good plan. It also sounds like we'd break Blend's game but we don't know that until it happens.

[Aranatha]

Karosis, on 29 May 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Merrid, on 29 May 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

So, just thinking out loud here;

Recruiting is a Night action. Nights are instant.

The recruited will be told by PM "you have been recruited by <alt x> to scum" before the next day starts.

Should the town TL then reverse time by say 18 hours (to maximise chance of recruited being online)

Recruited is no longer recruited. But knows name of recruiter. Can scream it on thread.

Lynch named recruiter. If not CFing as Lady November lynch the lying bugger who pretended to be recruited.


Or am I missing something here?

We won't know until it happens but it does sound like a good plan. It also sounds like we'd break Blend's game but we don't know that until it happens.

I think what might be missing is that in TL 1 (which I didn't play in, admittedly), the TL's ability did not undo vigs.
I *could* see that being expanded to recruitments (new to this game, I think?).

In the case that alignment doesn't transfer back, we'd redo day 1: the lynch would be reset as well.
WCS, we might perhaps even give scum an extra night to recruit in, although I doubt roled players will be allowed to take their night actions again while others (vigs) aren't.

[Nimander Golit]

And I'm caught up. I wasn't really sold on the Shelly case before I left but emo self votes on day 1 are unforgivable in my mind. Add that to the fact that day 1 is often just 'kill a random and hope for the best' day anyway leaves me with no qualms as I:

vote Sheltatha Lore