[AnomanderRakeSoD]

To pick up the pace a bit....

Who is going to win in a power bout between killy or liossercal?

This post has been edited by AnomanderRakeSoD: 01 May 2013 - 09:13 PM

[Brujah]

Osserc, easily, imo. Rake is possibly even with Osserc. Rake is even with Draconus, imo. Draconus must be even with Osserc by default. Draconus beat the living shit out of Kilmandaros and Errant at the same time.

Therefore, Osserc over Kilmandaros.

[Kanese S's]

Depends on where in time the fight takes place.

Way back in the day? Killy.

Now? Maybe Osserc.

[Brujah]

Kanese S, on 02 May 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

Depends on where in time the fight takes place.

Way back in the day? Killy.

Now? Maybe Osserc.

I know I should have made this more clear for each Democratic Hierarchy battle, but in one of the initial ones where I laid out the ground rules, we decided to go with their power, as far as timeline, as of the latest known book.

So even though this isn't my poll, he labeled it a Democratic Hierarchy battle, so I'd assume their power as of most current date in their timeline.

[Kanese S's]

I'm not sure if current Osserc is Rake's equal, though. Osserc has been sort of... out of it... for quite some time.

[Brujah]

Kanese S, on 02 May 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

I'm not sure if current Osserc is Rake's equal, though. Osserc has been sort of... out of it... for quite some time.

Could be true. I just always think about the fact that they seem to have had at least one huge fight that I thought ended in a tie, but maybe I was wrong. I got the impression that they were sort of equal in power, but I'd have to also give an edge to Rake, as well. I just think that even if Rake is more powerful, I didn't think it was by too much. And according to our Rake -- Draconus poll, Rake seemed to edge out Draconus only slightly as well.

So I tend to see them as at least somewhat equal, and Draconus raped Kilmandaros and the Errant, so I'd still definitely have to place Osserc above Kilmandaros. And mostly from downgrading Kilmandaros's power after Draconus Wrath, and less that of awarding status to Osserc.

Still an easy call for me, but I've been on the wrong side before. The forum put Rake slightly above Draconus, but I put Draconus slightly above Rake in my personal opinion.

I suppose Kilmandaros's face crushing of Scandabari Bloodeye does lend credit towards Kil, though.

[Kanese S's]

Yes, they may have had one huge fight that ended in a draw, but how long ago was that?


Also, Draconus did not rape Kilmandaros, or the Errant. At least, I don't recall there being a rape.

[Spoilsport Stonny]

I think since Osserc has a bunch of worshipers around Wu and possibly Kurald Liosan and Killy's been holding up in an underwater house with Knuckles for light knows how long, with nary a worshipper to found, AFAIK, so I vote Osserc.But neither of them could beat Chuck Norris.

This post has been edited by Spoilsport Stonny: 02 May 2013 - 12:50 PM

[Braven's barber]

I have the idea that rake and Osserc have a kind of fraternal bond, and that their fight (I think Rake even called it a "disagreement") was more of a physical argument rather than a Imma gonna kill you bloodbath.

So....seeing as all one has to do is stay out of arms reach (or frying pan reach if your name is Grizzen) to beat Kilmandaros, the order would be:


1) Chuck Norris, 2) Osserc, 3) Kilmandaros


Of course, Hedge + cusser trumps all

[Brujah]

Kanese S, on 02 May 2013 - 05:04 AM, said:

Yes, they may have had one huge fight that ended in a draw, but how long ago was that?


Also, Draconus did not rape Kilmandaros, or the Errant. At least, I don't recall there being a rape.

According to the results of this fine poll, it would appear you are nearly the only one, as Osserc is also raping Kilmandaros.

[Brujah]

Braven, on 02 May 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

I have the idea that rake and Osserc have a kind of fraternal bond, and that their fight (I think Rake even called it a "disagreement") was more of a physical argument rather than a Imma gonna kill you bloodbath.

So....seeing as all one has to do is stay out of arms reach (or frying pan reach if your name is Grizzen) to beat Kilmandaros, the order would be:


1) Chuck Norris, 2) Osserc, 3) Kilmandaros


Of course, Hedge + cusser trumps all

How about I fraternal bond all over your face, Barber. Jk.

I tend to see Osserc as the light-aspected equal to Rake, although when Rake held Draginpur, he had an edge.

If we were to list all the powerful Malazans, Chuck Norris would come somewhere between Karsa and Kalam.

Draconus is the Malazan Chuck Norris.

"Draconus does not breathe air. The air hides in Draconus's lungs for protection."


But yes. Hedge plus cusser trumps all.

This post has been edited by Karsa: 04 May 2013 - 01:14 AM

[Brujah]

Sorrysort, I see you creeping. I demand a pithy retort within 5 minutes, or I'll be offended/let down.

This post has been edited by Karsa: 04 May 2013 - 01:16 AM

[worry]

Sorry. Nothing pithy to say. I did vote Kilmandaros, and she's losing in a landslide, so that's kinda funny I guess.

[Malaclypse]

will you change your name back ffs?! it's depressing

[Brujah]

‘... came upon Osserick, stalwart ally, broken and with blood on his face, struck into
unconsciousness. And Anomander fell to his knees and called upon the Thousand Gods who looked
down upon Osserick and saw the blood on his face. With mercy they struck him awakened and so he
stood.
And so stood Anomander and they faced one another, Light upon Dark, Dark upon Light.
‘Now there was rage in Anomander. “Where is Draconnusl” he demanded of his stalwart ally. For
when Anomander had departed, the evil tyrant Draconnus, Slayer of Eleint, had been by Anomander’s
own hand struck into unconsciousness and there was blood on his face. Osserick, who had taken the
charge of guarding Draconnus, fell to his knees and called upon the Thousand Gods, seeking their mercy
before Anomander’s fury.’
‘I was bested!’ cried Osserick in answer. ‘Caught by Sister Spite unawares! Oh, the Thousand Clods
were turned away, and so was I struck into unconsciousness and see there is blood on my face!’
“One day,” vowed Anomander, and he was then the darkness of a terrible storm, and Osserick
quailed like a sun behind a cloud, “this alliance of ours shall end. Our enmity shall be renewed, O Son of
Light, Child of Light. We shall contest every span of ground, every reach of sky, every spring of sweet
water. We shall battle a thousand times and there shall be no mercy between us. I shall send misery upon
your kin, your daughters. I shall blight their minds with Unknowing Dark. I shall scatter them confused
on realms unknown and there shall be no mercy in their hearts, for between them and the Thousand Gods
there shall ever be a cloud of darkness.”
‘Such was Anomander’s fury, and though he stood alone, Dark upon Light, there was sweetness
hngering in the palm of one hand, from the deceiving touch of Lady Envy. Light upon Dark, Dark upon
Light, two men, wielded as weapons by two sisters, children of Draconnus. Who stood unseen by any
and were pleased by what they saw and all that they heard.
‘It was decided then that Anomander would set out once more, to hunt down the evil tyrant. To
destroy him and his cursed sword which is an abomination in the eyes of the Thousand Gods and all who
kneel to them. Osserick, it was decided, would set out to hunt Spite and exact righteous vengeance.
‘Of the vow spoken by Anomander, Osserick knew the rage from which it was spawned, and in
silence he made vow to answer it in his own time. To spar, to duel, to contest every span of ground, every
reach of sky, and every spring of sweet water. But such matters must needs lie upon calm earth, a seed
awaiting life.
‘This issue with Draconnus remained before them, after all, and now Spite as well. Did not the
Children of Tiam demand punishment! There was blood on the faces of too many Eleint, and so
Anomander and so Osserick had taken on themselves this fated hunt.
‘Could the Eleint have known all that would come of this, they would have withdrawn their
storm-breath, from both Anomander and Osserick. But these fates were not to be known then, and this is
why the Thousand Gods wept.

-----------------------------------------------

‘In this day there was war among the dragons. The First Born had all but one bowed necks to K’rul’s
bargain. Their children, bereft of all that they would have inherited, htust skyward from the towers in
great flurry yet even these were not uuited beyond rejecting the First Born. Factions arose and red rain
descended upon all the Realms. Jaws fastened upon necks. Talons opened bellies. The breath of chaos
melted flesh from bones.
‘Anomander, Osserick and others had already tasted the blood of Tiam, and now there came more
with raging thirst and many a demonic abomination was spawned of this crimson nectar. So long as the
Gates of Starvald Demelain remained open, unguarded and held by none, the war would not end, and so
the red rain descended upon all the Realms.
‘Kurald Liosan was the first Realm to seal the portal between itself and Starvald Demelain, and the
tale that follows recounts the slaughter committed by Osserick in cleansing his world of all the pretenders
and rivals, the Soletaken and feral purebloods, even unto driving the very first D’ivers from his land.
‘This begins at the time when Osserick fought Anomander for the sixteenth time and both had blood
on their faces before Kilmandaros, she who speaks with her fists, took upon herself the task of driving
them apart.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Undeceived, Crone cackled. Then she said, ‘My master was most amused at the notion of falling to
his knees and crying out to the Hundred Gods—’
‘Thousand. The Thousand Gods.’
‘Whatever.’ A duck of the head and the wings half spread. ‘Or even making a vow to battle Osserc.
Their alliance fell apart because of a growing mutual dislike. The disaster with Draconus probably
delivered the death-blow. Imagine, falling for a woman’s wiles and a daughter of Draconus at that!
Was Osserc not even remotely suspicious of her motives? Hah! The males among every species in
existence are so ... predictable!’
Baruk smiled. ‘If I recall Fisher’s Anomanaris, Lady Envy managed pretty much the same with your
master, Crone.’
‘Nothing he was unaware of at the time,’ the Great Raven said with a strange clucking sound to
punctuate the statement. ‘My master has always understood the necessity of certain sacrifices.’ She
fluffed up her onyx feathers. ‘Consider the outcome, after all!’



These passages are what helped make me believe that Rake and Osseric were somewhat equal in power. It mentions the two of them fighting for the 16th time, and how they battled for every piece of land and sky, yet neither dies. Thus Osseric was always very high up in my mind. There's also a time in RotCG when Osseric comes out of Kyles sword when they're all in the Warren of Shadow, and Osseric slices through the tendrils of power created by Shadowthrone and/or Cotillon. Dassem is also present and Osseric seems to dismiss Shadowthrone, Cotillon, and Dassem all together, which is audacious, imo.

These passages are what also always made me view Draconus as a threat to Rake, or at least a power to rival his and Osserics together.

[Dragnipurake]

Voted Kilmandaros

Can't imagine Osserc being at the same level as Rake

[Brujah]

Dragnipurake, on 07 May 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

Voted Kilmandaros

Can't imagine Osserc being at the same level as Rake

" This begins at the time when Osserick fought Anomander for the sixteenth time and both had blood on their faces."

If Osseric and Rake fought 16 times with no winner, I'd say they were fairly even matched, but this was possibly from a very early time. I'm going to have to agree with you that Rake is now probably a bit more powerful than Osseric, and was definitely more powerful when he had Dragnipur. Alas, the sword is no more, yet I'd give Rake the advantage, but we just don't know by just how much. Osseric is the unseen badass. We only gather just how powerful he is from the perspectives of others.

But none of that equates to Kilmandaros being able to defeat Osseric. I just don't see that by a long shot, unless Draconus is vastly more powerful than both Osseric and Rake, as Draconus quite easily dispatched Kilmandaros.

[AnomanderRakeSoD]

Rake PUT Kilmandaros in the Azath

[Dragnipurake]

After reading FOD, I wouldn't be surprised if Rake let off Osserc out of pity in every battle they fought

Rake's storyline and Osserc's are at different scales. granted we don't know much of the latter yet but from FOD to TTH, its impossible for Osserc to be anywhere near the same level and dragnipur hardly comes into the equation here.

This post has been edited by Dragnipurake: 18 May 2013 - 01:33 AM

[High King of Failure]

True but Osserc was scared of Rake in a flashback in RotCG and seems to be weaker than Rake in general plus Draconus is arguably stronger than Rake although Rake is a better swordsman so i think Osserc but it is pretty close

Brujah, on 01 May 2013 - 10:48 PM, said:

Osserc, easily, imo. Rake is possibly even with Osserc. Rake is even with Draconus, imo. Draconus must be even with Osserc by default. Draconus beat the living shit out of Kilmandaros and Errant at the same time.

Therefore, Osserc over Kilmandaros.