[Terez]

I think it might require going to IMDB to look at the casting list (which would give you Ramsay Snow), and then maybe a visit to a Wiki-type thing to figure out who tf that is (which most people won't do).

[Terez]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 09 April 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

I found an interesting theory with a Youtube reel of potential evidence for the idea that Talisa (rather than being a carbon copy of Jeyne Westerling under another name) is infact a Lannister spy - any thoughts? I'll dig the link back out and return with it!

Zombie quote. Just saw this posted on Facebook.

http://www.youtube.c...bed/jsTVnZm9hFg

[Primateus]

I have to admit, even though he's a cynical, cold and ruthless character, I can't help but root for Tywin Lannister. Yes yes, he's sort of the "bad guy" but still, Charles Dance performs his role perfectly.
I like how, when he says he'll do something he bloody well does it, exemplified excellently with him telling Cercei he'd bend Geoffrey to his will. He really gives off the vibe that he understands that, in the grand scheme of things, honour doesn't really matter. That was Ned Starks greatest failing, I think. He was too honourable to understand that his own position was precarious at best. Tywin, I believe, will not make such a mistake. And considering that his grandson, the king, is obviously afraid of him it's clear to see who really rules Westeros.
But I suppose there's a dagger behind every tapestry, behind every door, every chair and every back. So we'll just wait and see how long until his own ruthlessness will drive a dagger into his.

Dany's bit was well-played and a bit ominous of things to come I think. But I haven't read the books, so I don't really know.

I'm getting bored with Bran and Osha's story and Jon and the wildlings? Well, That had better pay off soon, because quite frankly, the whole "wall" thing seems, right now, as more filler than actual story. But I guess I had just hoped for more Mance "Julius FUCKING Caesar" Reyder than "Jon and Ygritte sitting in a tree K I S S I N G"

Theon and Ramsay, well, while I'm not seeing where it is supposed to lead it certainly is, by far, the most brutal part of the show so far. While a bit harsh to watch it's also really well-played.

I think it'd have been better if the Bear had killed Brienne, but I guess we'll see. where it leads.

[Ceda Cicero]

Terez, on 13 May 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

I think it might require going to IMDB to look at the casting list (which would give you Ramsay Snow), and then maybe a visit to a Wiki-type thing to figure out who tf that is (which most people won't do).

I've sort of been operating under the assumption that they aren't explicitly tying Ramsay to Roose yet because doing so would set off alarm bells about Roose, and my sense is that the show-runners want Roose's betrayal of Robb to be a total shock to the audience. If it didn't start people asking questions about why Roose's son wasn't turning Theon over to Robb (or at least sending a damn raven that he's in custody) it would certainly start people asking questions about how reliable Roose can be if his son is that twisted.

I'm willing to bet the pieces will fall into place with the show Boltons after the Red Wedding, and the show runners are doing it that way on purpose.

There are other dots to be connected outside of IMDB, btw. Granted it would require keen perception. But my girlfriend noted a few episodes back, "HEY the Bolton sigil"--(which, by the way, has had more face time so far this season than just about any other sigil)--"is that thing they're torturing Theon on!"

I like how they're just barely underscoring Roose's conversations with Jaime. For book readers, it's clear that when Roose says "Give my regards to your father" etc that there's some big time marginalia there. Jaime's expressions help sell it to, especially in that convo over dinner int he last episode.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 13 May 2013 - 09:25 PM

[amphibian]

Roose is already shown a couple times as explicitly being on the fence between the Starks and Lannisters. He's being positioned as a "fair weather friend" already for the non-book readers.

Also, Talisa as a Lannister spy? That's kind of farfetched considering that she is now pregnant with the future Stark ruler (stabilizing Robb's rule a bit more) and has the same last name of one of the people ruling Volantis, the place where she's from. It's far more likely that "Mother Dearest" really is her mother and she's connected in a big way back home.

[LinearPhilosopher]

I'm getting tired of the whole bran and theon story. We get it bran's on a journey, we get it theon is being tortured, move on.

[worry]

I know this stuff is right out of the books, but I think the show is also doing a great job in paralleling Jon Snow/Ygritte and Robb/Talisa. The way the former kinda rock each other's worlds constantly, and bring out the best in each other, and yet they're both still pulled very much by duty (and I think they respect each other for it even more, it's both an attraction and a wedge). Then you have Robb and Talisa's more impulsive, thoughtless actions which in a way, even though they're relatively good people, bring out the worst in each other (note: their worst still isn't as bad as many people's worsts). But they distract each other, they kinda help each other retreat from the world, and particularly from their duties. In a way, Jon the bastard has a stronger sense -- or at least a stronger commitment through action -- to his duty than the actual lordling Robb.

[Agraba]

Regarding Talisa being a spy: If this is the case, the show is taking Tywin's plan a step further from the books. In the books he merely seized the opportunity of Robb betraying the Freys; in the show, if the Talisa thing is true, he instigates it.

I think this was an underwhelming episode overall. I stand by my opinion that they should scrap the 8-scenarios-per-episode format, and cut it down to about 2-4 scenarios per episode. They could cover the same amount of content that way, but the stories would be more nicely segmented. The way it is right now, the stories feel so fragmented, the pacing so awkward.

For example, I'm guessing Danaerys won't get to Mereen this season, so her story probably ends with the conquest of Yunkai and the wall of crucified slaves that pisses her off. She could have simply had two episodes this season. The first one being the Astapor episode, which climaxes with her taking the Unsullied army (end of episode 4 or 5 IIRC), and the second episode being the whole Yunkai ordeal.

This post has been edited by Agraba: 14 May 2013 - 12:50 AM

[amphibian]

BalrogLord, on 13 May 2013 - 10:59 PM, said:

I'm getting tired of the whole bran and theon story. We get it bran's on a journey, we get it theon is being tortured, move on.

it's interesting to note the audience tolerance for showing travel or long gestating storylines.

Note Agraba's wish to have Dany teleport from city to city and magically stay connected with the audience and develop as a ruler off screen. Note the general discontent with what's happening to Theon, despite the general awfulness and some level of karmic payback occurring. And Bran, Osha and Jojen have probably made many tired with their dream stuff and constant travel scenes.

All of these are tablesetting and required in a show that doesn't have modern travel miracles or teleportation or events that always happen in five minutes or less.

What is required is trust in the writers and the actors. Most of you appear to actually do so while reserving the right to complain endlessly - much like the marines in Erikson's books.

Why is Osha sniping at the girl? Because she went from being the primary protector, food provide and the direction finder of the group to yielding her spots to two weird ass teenagers who she doesn't know and may not trust fully. Her role in this is now uncertain. Thus she picks fights and looks like a petulant child.

Why is Shae and Tyrion an important dynamic to see? Because we no longer have Roz to show us the precarity of court life for a non-noble who is in the midst of a murderous regime and a multifront war. And because it shows how Tyrion more than anyone else has to retain his family name. Without it, he's a dwarf who'd get murdered the next time he got uppity.

[amphibian]

I do think there is a genuine breaking point for attention spans regarding Theon's torture and Bran's walking group. At some point, everyone gets tired of dreams without substance and desensitized to the atrocities.

Although making a potential threesome with two very attractive naked women onscreen one of the biggest "This is NOT going to end well" moments of the season was a neat trick.

[Serenity]

Had to laugh at this t-shirt that was on sale from Qwertee, called 'A Stark on the Throne':

[Ulrik]

Agraba, on 14 May 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

Regarding Talisa being a spy: If this is the case, the show is taking Tywin's plan a step further from the books. In the books he merely seized the opportunity of Robb betraying the Freys; in the show, if the Talisa thing is true, he instigates it.

Oh no no, during my third reread, I foud some hints (seemed to me pretty strong - because of third time reread:)) that it was all Tywins plan from beginning. Westerling House wanted to have stronger ties - and best way was throug Tywin. Tywin wanted pawns and leverage to break Stark - Frey strong alliance. Parents rather forced Jaye to seduce young inexperienced Robb and at best got baby -> honorable Robb marries her (and she probably fells partially in love with him). I dont have books here, so my quote fu is impotent, but it wasnt using of opportunity, it was Tywins level 19 political brilliance and subterfuge. If you cant win on battlefield, break them from inside. Long term plans work best.

[Agraba]

amphibian, on 14 May 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Note Agraba's wish to have Dany teleport from city to city and magically stay connected with the audience and develop as a ruler off screen. Note the general discontent with what's happening to Theon, despite the general awfulness and some level of karmic payback occurring. And Bran, Osha and Jojen have probably made many tired with their dream stuff and constant travel scenes.

Maybe I should reiterate what I mean, since I guess people don't actually understand it from reading my posts.

I think that each character should have the same content and exposure that they do now, only organized differently.

As it is right now, each character has one or two interesting story arcs per season, fragmented into little bits, scattered throughout the entire season, which results in each episode covering 6-8 different people and scenarios, most of which is very unsatisfying transition content. Instead, they could focus each episode on 2-4 people/scenarios, and give us the fruit of all the character transitioning in the same episode. My quarrel isn't with what content they choose to display (well it is in some cases, but that's besides the point), but rather, the order in which they choose to display it.

Taking the Danaerys example again. You could have taken her scenes in Astapor from all four episodes and put them in a single episode. Then that same episode would have room for one or two more scenarios, which you could have filled with less important things such as Arya's story, from the beginning all the way up to when Beric is revived from the Clegane fight, and a couple episodes' worth of Bran stuff. (Maybe that's too much, but you get my point.) Then we don't see Dany for the next 3-5 episodes, but that's fine, because each of the next episode will show equally satisfying content of different characters.

This post has been edited by Agraba: 15 May 2013 - 01:39 AM

[worry]

I imagine that's a taste thing rather than a quality thing though, because I'm following each storyline absolutely fine. Its biggest series analogue is probably Deadwood (moreso than Rome, even, IMO) and that had a similar template for following its sprawl of characters and storylines. And that was certainly a show that was great the first time through, and then even better on a marathon rewatch...and I've found the same to be true of GoT, with the blu-ray releases. I think your idea might make it a bit more cinematic perhaps, and it's not so far from the way some miniseries work, but it would be at the expense of episodic theme development and slow-building arcs (as well as great through-lines like the red comet in season 2's premiere). I suppose there are sacrifices no matter how they would have done it, but all in all I like it this way.

This post has been edited by sorrysort: 15 May 2013 - 02:19 AM

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 14 May 2013 - 02:08 AM, said:

I was expecting Osha offer to split with Rickon after her Others story.

I figure her angst was setup for exactly that.

High point of the ep was Bart catching Brienne's sword and slugging her in the face. Tyrion chatting with Bronn a close second.

[worry]

Who knows, maybe the show will give us Skagos before the books do...that'd be interesting.

And I think the high point of the episode was Hodor's reading of the line "Hodor." Probably his best yet.

[blackzoid]

Poor episode for me. Struggling to remember any as poor since the series began. Everyone shifting in their seats in my house watching this episode, waiting for something interesting to happen. Reaction to Bear fight was very underwhelming alround.
Oh well, Martin can't win them all.

[Abyss]

sorrysort, on 15 May 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

And I think the high point of the episode was Hodor's reading of the line "Hodor." Probably his best yet.

He certainly gave it a gravitas and emotive note not previously seen.

[QuickTidal]

Theon and the two girls:

I squirmed the entire time..."what's wrong, don't you like us?" as they grab his flaccidness...

Jeebus. Just like Amph said, easily one of the most "This is not going to end well" scenes ever.

I was sitting there thinking...this would not be turning me on either...days (weeks?) of torture/flaying...followed by sex with two women...so suspicious it's not even funny.

*shiver*

[Ceda Cicero]

Since there are clearly lots of Rome fans here, did anyone go into this episode expecting the bear pit scene to be something like... (potential spoilers for that show to follow--just playing it safe)

Spoiler

...the scene where Vorenus leaps into the arena with Pullo ("THIRTEENTH!!!!!!")?

...Because I did. And it didn't come close to touching it. And I think that's at least 40% of the reason I was underwhelmed.

The other 60% probably has something to do with the fact that it also didn't come close to touching this masterpiece:

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 15 May 2013 - 09:34 PM