[Monok Ochem]

Also, someone mentioned that we are only focusing on a select few people, forgetting about all the rest of the possible suspects. I suspect this is because keeping track of everyone is damn hard. So here is what I have so far as to who is who. I am currently, in this post, tracking the four character traits (role, role type, faction, player) and tracking who claims to have roles or not. Please feel free to quote this, modify it, and use it to bring this game to a level where the coasters aren't allowed to be forgotten.

Ampelas [Claims to have a RI role]
Aranatha (Jesus, Jester role, Jester faction, unknown player) --> Ay Estos
Eloth (Isabelle Paix, faction role, unknown faction, unknown player)--> Bek Okhan [Eloth claims to have 3 roles]
Bendal Home
D'riss [claims to have 2 weak, useless roles and 1 awesome role at the end]
Demelain
Denesmet (Tarrlok, faction role, unknown faction, unknown player) -->
Desra
Fanderay
Galayn Lord
Karosis
Kilava
Korbas
Korlat
Liosan
Mockra [claims to have an RI role]
Monok Ochem
Nenanda (Zahska Taraq, town-like role, unknown faction, unknown player) -->
Omtose [essentially not playing]
Prazec Goul
Rashan
Ryllandaras
Silchas Ruin
Skintick
Tellan
Trake
Tulas Shorn
Ultama

[D'riss]

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 01:33 AM, said:

I also at this point need to mention that D'riss behaves in almost the exact same way, upping my suspicions of him for similar reasons. Interesting how people have forgot about him today...

You are all quite free to blow this Alt to smithereens. I'm quite sure you'll be stunned at my role's awesome powers. I pointed out that Amp's behavior was somewhat similar to mine yesterday, so I'm okay with that comparison and seeming suspect for it. I'm not good with the inconsistency he's shown in statements, but I figure he's town for now so I'm voting elsewhere.

[D'riss]

I claimed a "fun role" at the end. Compared to the first two, that's not hard to achieve. But, it is fun, yes.

[Monok Ochem]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

You have three players willing to be linked together stating that there are effective RI's in this game.

Willfully ignoring that, even if it is for the normal good reason of WCS fear of not letting super-powered players coast under the guise of RI, seems somewhat tunnelvisioned.

That being said, I'll reiterate that Amp's statements are someone inconsistent and for that reason I can understand the votes going that direction.

I'm not sure how this is tunnel visioned. I am not willing to believe in a complete RI (a weak roled player, even a player with just an BP and nothing else), which I think is actually mind opening not blinding. As for three players claiming to be RI (it's actually 2 people in my count), did you really think I would accept Amp and other's claims if more came forward? It's called fishing dear, and I think people who bite have something to hide deeper under the surface.

[D'riss]

Monok Ochem, on 28 March 2013 - 01:41 AM, said:

D, on 28 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

You have three players willing to be linked together stating that there are effective RI's in this game.

Willfully ignoring that, even if it is for the normal good reason of WCS fear of not letting super-powered players coast under the guise of RI, seems somewhat tunnelvisioned.

That being said, I'll reiterate that Amp's statements are someone inconsistent and for that reason I can understand the votes going that direction.

I'm not sure how this is tunnel visioned. I am not willing to believe in a complete RI (a weak roled player, even a player with just an BP and nothing else), which I think is actually mind opening not blinding. As for three players claiming to be RI (it's actually 2 people in my count), did you really think I would accept Amp and other's claims if more came forward? It's called fishing dear, and I think people who bite have something to hide deeper under the surface.

"I'm not willing to believe in a complete RI (a weak roled player, even a player with just an BP and nothing else."

You are fucking tunnel-visioned because you refuse to accept that YOU ARE WRONG.

[D'riss]

Whatever, I hope you aren't in my faction because you are merrily drawing actions towards someone far more powerful than I'll be for the foreseeable future and thus wasting resources.

[Monok Ochem]

You saying you are Roleless Innocent then? [img]http://forum.malazanempire.com/public/style_emoticons/Malazan/:D.gif[/img]

[D'riss]

Effectively.

[Monok Ochem]

Not the same thing.

[Ampelas]

Ok, so, the famous Silchas Ruin first. Silchas Ruin has a not unhealthy but equally not impressive 32 posts. Looked at more closely, a good 50-60% of those are no-content one-liners. Ruin has had one mini run-in, however, with our Jester Aranatha, which I'll get to below. First though:


Ruin concedes, perhaps a little sceptically-sounding, that the serial killer could be an FM, but is also quick to point to the first mentioner of it as that person (Bendal Home) being the SK themselves.

Silchas Ruin, on 25 March 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

Bendal Home, on 25 March 2013 - 05:55 PM, said:

Eloth, on 25 March 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 25 March 2013 - 05:40 PM, said:

welp, there are t sets of scum in the game. What if you're BOTH scummy?

DUNNNNNN!!!!!!

Seriously though, we should perhaps discuss the game setup a little.

2 town teams
2 scum teams
3 indies

So it's like a faction game seeing as only one of the 4 factions can win, with a scum vs. town feeling. There are, uh, 27 players on the sign up sheet, so 24 players divided up among the town and scum factions. If it's like regular scum vs. town games, the scum factions will be smaller with more powers than the town factions, so, say scum are 3 players each, for example, then we'd be working with two 3 person scum teams (6 players), two 9 person town teams (18 players) and 3 independent. Or....

2 x 4 scum (8 players)
2 x 8 town (16 players)
3 indies

or

2 x 5 scum (10 players)
2 x 7 town (14 players)
3 indies

I think if the teams are equal, the above three possibilities are most likely. That being said, there's always the possibility that one of the scum teams is a different size than the other and just has more powerful roles, or something along those lines. *shrugs* Any other speculation?

The SK will probably be a FM. With different kill abilities and perhaps jump abilities into each of his alts.

While that's possible, i feel like by suggesting this, you suggest you know more than the rest of us. So while i have little to no evidence, you're top of my list for SK

Ruin is afterwards very quick (five minutes, to be exact) to find an example of SK FMs from a previous game, when the question is asked generally. Perhaps the same question can be put Ruin then - do you actually know more than the rest of us?

Silchas Ruin, on 25 March 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Eloth, on 25 March 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

Okay, can someone please explain to me why you guys seem to all think that the SK is going to be a FM?

There's been no indication that this is the case, so what gives you that impression?

Probably because shins sengoku 3 had fm SK-esque killers

This is where it gets more interesting. Here are Ruin's reasons for voting Eloth. Note reason number 1. It is wrong. Eloth did NOT make those comments - Bendal Home did, and subsequently Silchas Ruin himself did. Never Eloth - who, in fact, was the one questioning where other people got it from, as you can see in the quote above. Ruin should know this, because he was involved in the conversation. So this just looks as if he's trying to find any old justifiable reason for voting Eloth without looking scummy, and slipping up in the effort. Reason number 2 is just a non-reason, and reason number 3 will be latched onto by Aranatha later, as we shall see.

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I'm jumping on the train for Eloth for 3 reasons. ( I'll be around for a while after this)

1. I was one of the first to notice/comment on Eloths FM SK comments so I want to see what the result of his lynch is.

2. It's the biggest train right now, and any lynch is better than no lynch Day 1.

3. If Eloth is "inno", then those hounding him for his comments become much more suspicious.

So

Vote Eloth

Here is what first brought Ruin to my attention. He's basically admitted he has three ability roles here. I called him on it at the time. He never responded.

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

Eloth, on 26 March 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

Desra, on 26 March 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

I don't think a train built for nothing. While other people did in fact bring up the FM you continued to feel it necessary to point out that the SK isn't necessarily a FM and vise versa. You repeatedly went out of your way to say it. Why? I assume you are aware of the Mafia "rule" that states he who speculates on a role is likely affected by it. Most people would have left well enough alone, but you kept hammering away that the SK wasn't necessarily a FM. It stuck out to me as very odd. Combine that with the fact that you admit that you have 3 roles all with abilities. I've seen worse day 1 cases.

This is such a load of crap. This game is built to have all kinds of roles with abilities. Anyone who thinks that someone's gonna get a RI in this game is a complete idiot. Everyone will have 3 roles with abilities, even if some of those abilities are as simple as a NK ability, or a Guard, or a Heal.

Even while voting you, I have to agree. Why would a game meant to commemorate all the best roles in ME mafia history have RIs?

[Ampelas]

Here is the run-in with Aranatha in full. Aranatha calls reason 3 scummy and only put in so as to make Ruin seem more inno. I particularly noted Ruin's "meh, you have a point" response near the end. Essentially, it's like saying, "ok, ok, leave me alone, let me go! I don't want to be in the spotlight any more."

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 26 March 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I'm jumping on the train for Eloth for 3 reasons. ( I'll be around for a while after this)

1. I was one of the first to notice/comment on Eloths FM SK comments so I want to see what the result of his lynch is.

2. It's the biggest train right now, and any lynch is better than no lynch Day 1.

3. If Eloth is "inno", then those hounding him for his comments become much more suspicious.

So

Vote Eloth

and you'll just wash your hands,saying "oh noes, but we needed a lynch!"


That last point reeks of something.

No, I do include myself in the group that will become more suspicious as a group, but less so than those that hounded him relentlessly. That's why I mentioned i was one of the first to notice

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 26 March 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 26 March 2013 - 05:35 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 26 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:24 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 26 March 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 26 March 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

I'm jumping on the train for Eloth for 3 reasons. ( I'll be around for a while after this)

1. I was one of the first to notice/comment on Eloths FM SK comments so I want to see what the result of his lynch is.

2. It's the biggest train right now, and any lynch is better than no lynch Day 1.

3. If Eloth is "inno", then those hounding him for his comments become much more suspicious.

So

Vote Eloth

and you'll just wash your hands,saying "oh noes, but we needed a lynch!"


That last point reeks of something.

No, I do include myself in the group that will become more suspicious as a group, but less so than those that hounded him relentlessly. That's why I mentioned i was one of the first to notice

xpost. Why would you bring yourself up as being more suspicious? Are you not town? hmm?

Because saying that I shouldnt be investigated after pushing a lynch on an inno would be lying, and lying is scummy

it's not lying if you don't say anything.
pre-emptively bringing yourself up as one of the people to look at (but not one of the major ones) is super-suspicious though

Ever heard of lying by omission?

I have, but I don't see how it applies here. Town needs numbers. THis isn't your regular run o' the mill town v scum, where town can afford to lose a few, as long as it nets them scum. Since post-scum we go into "majority takes all" faction game, it;s stupid for town to paint themselves in a bad light, b/c it can lead to your team's loss later on in the endgame.

Meh, you may have a point.

Rest assured, if we lynch Eloth and he's inno, i'll be taking a long, hard look at you.

And an even longer and harder look at those who started the train and hounded Eloth the entire time as well, I hope

[Ampelas]

Here Ruin is either pretending to play the outraged inno, or is genuinely concerned that Eloth might be on the same team and screwing him over. I'm undecided which.

Silchas Ruin, on 26 March 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Eloth, on 26 March 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

The worst part of this lynch train is that half my team are the ones who more or less started it.

Chew on that for a while.

You have 2 more lives, why give any info that could fuck over your team? Are you actually that pissed?

And here is his vote on me. The reasoning is not really what I said, and this is an easy OMGUS vote for him. I hope he's now satisfied with this further analysis.

Silchas Ruin, on 27 March 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

Karosis, on 27 March 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

Korbas, on 27 March 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Karosis, on 27 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Ryllandaras, on 27 March 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Ampelas, on 27 March 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Right, I personally have no strong feelings on anyone. I might do a reread sometime tonight if I have the time, but that would already be getting close to deadline (not close close, but seeing as we need a lot of votes to get a lynch, relatively speaking), so I'm going to lay a vote now.

As I said, no strong feelings, so I'm going back to the old "scum hiding somewhere in the middle of post count" tactic. Thus,

Vote Silchas Ruin


Actually, Silchas is Eloth-like in that he has also as much as admitted he has three memorable roles all with abilities - so he could be dangerous.

I agree that we need to reach some kind of consensus on what to do with Eloth (who I think is Bek). I'm also willing to vote Ryllandaras, as I'm curious to see what will come of all of Bendal's aggression there.

I am not willing to waste a vote on the Jester/former Jester, who I believe to be Ay at this present moment.

Why not test that by lynching Bendal? His relentlessness points more to scum behavior than town. There are two town teams, and it benefits both sides of town to eliminate both of the scum teams and keep town alive. Scum just wants to eliminate everybody, so they don't have to be as picky on who they lynch. I picked Eloth yesterday as a possible FM or SK, which do not seem like town roles, and Ay today, because I don't think he is Eloth or Aranatha, and I think that his being an unknown that is hiding something seems more likely to be scum.

You could say scum will want to think more about their lynch choices due to having to "blend" in. Bendal does not do that by being agressive. Do you really think Bendal will come up scum? He believes that you will. Amp voting Silchas is a scummy move in my opinion. He has no way of knowing whether Silchas is on his team, his decision is a blind vote based off of voting numbers. Not only that but the day has focused primarily on the two returned alts, Amp himself and you (with the exception of the recent Rashan/Korlat thingy). For us to co ordinate and get a lynch Amp is throwing a spanner in the works and I do not like it. I would prefer to lynch everyday and Amp's move looks to be against that.


Remove Vote



Vote Ampelas



For all the things been discussed about you so far. Plus my above reasoning.

Why such a reaction?

I considered not answering you for not reading up and asking this question. Then I though that would be rude. The first line in Amp post

Quote

Right, I personally have no strong feelings on anyone

yet he votes for Silchas. How can he know if Silchas is on his team or not? It is a shot in the dark. I don't like it. Only scum may nonchalantly throw their vote around like that.

Silchas actually has a few posts, Amp could have went back and found a reason within those posts to vote for him. It is a dirty vote. Careless.

As the one being voted for, I have to agree. I have more than a few posts, and aranatha actually already pointed out some of them that could be framed as scummy. And yet even with that information so readily available, you go out and just vote after saying no one, not even the person you are voting, catches your interest. That is extremely scummy.

Vote Ampelas

I think the most interesting thing here is the reasoning post for the vote on Eloth, which is made up of one non-reason, one reason which another found to be scummy, and a further reason which is entirely wrong. There is some slight suspicion that he could actually be the SK based on those two early posts, but that's not nearly enough to decide one way or the other.

[D'riss]

In essence they are. If you want to get technical, then no as I have a name and am thus "roled." However, I assure you I have no abilities that can impact the game, even a pittling BP which you throw out as if it is a minor gift. Which tells me you've got some good shit compared to me.

[D'riss]

Kudos if you are trying to draw targets towards you and are doing this to benefit more powerful players on your team because you are weak.

[Monok Ochem]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 01:49 AM, said:

In essence they are. If you want to get technical, then no as I have a name and am thus "roled." However, I assure you I have no abilities that can impact the game, even a pittling BP which you throw out as if it is a minor gift. Which tells me you've got some good shit compared to me.

Hardly. I have never claimed that there aren't weak RIs. But I think everyone has at least one, as you put it, "fun" role. The question is, when are people using the better roles and when are people using the weaker roles.

Regardless, even a healer not knowing who to heal has a role and can effect the game, however impotently.

You are also deliberately missing the point that those who claim to be using an RI or weaker role currently are probably not volunteering true information. Which makes me wonder what they really have going on.

[D'riss]

I'm not deliberately missing that point. It's not a point. They could be being truthful, they might not be being truthful. That's an opinion and depends on what you believe. I assume if we get an Amp lynch we'll see one way or another with him. However, if there are players fully powered up, they need to be disabused of the notion that they are not unique in that aspect if they are on my team.

[Monok Ochem]

These pissing matches are what mafia's all about. Mine is much longer than yours.

[Monok Ochem]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

I'm not deliberately missing that point. It's not a point. They could be being truthful, they might not be being truthful. That's an opinion and depends on what you believe. I assume if we get an Amp lynch we'll see one way or another with him. However, if there are players fully powered up, they need to be disabused of the notion that they are not unique in that aspect if they are on my team.

If you thought that was the point, you missed it. The point is why a person would volunteer the information. Saying one's RI is tantamount to saying, I'm not worth the trouble, just like self-voting mellow-drama is telling people your fed up with the stupidity and just want it over with so you don't have to suffer the ignorant ones anymore. It's not like I'm saying I can tell truth from fiction. It's all in how things are phrased and why certain statements are chosen.

Clear?

[D'riss]

People volunteer information for all sorts of reasons. Some nefarious, some idiotically, some for informational purposes, and others for diabolical reasons.

It seems to me you are sure that you know the one and only reason someone would volunteer a piece of information. I originally volunteered it because I didn't give a fuck and condescending Mafiosos have a way of irritating me quickly. I doubt that registers to someone playing super-serial Mafia right now, but it doesn't make it any less true.

[Monok Ochem]

D, on 28 March 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

People volunteer information for all sorts of reasons. Some nefarious, some idiotically, some for informational purposes, and others for diabolical reasons.

It seems to me you are sure that you know the one and only reason someone would volunteer a piece of information. I originally volunteered it because I didn't give a fuck and condescending Mafiosos have a way of irritating me quickly. I doubt that registers to someone playing super-serial Mafia right now, but it doesn't make it any less true.

I would love to believe you too, but this is mafia after all. I mean, I know of one player who is notorious for acting like they don't give a fuck, and then popping up at the end and slamming everyone's asses. You can definitely say what you truly feel in your heart of hearts, but all I hear is potential manipulations.

If it makes you feel any better, I'll give you a hug and validate you as a good person when this game is over