[D'rek]

Even then, though, I think Distortion Shield is the better tech because it blanketly affects all missiles. If twelve moves in his dreads and IH buils another starbase, the dreads are still going to fire 12 missiles at IH, who will only be able to roll 6 point defence shots. Flat odds are two thirds of the missiles hit, and about half to two thirds of the point defence shots hit. So 8 missiles would hit, and 3 or 4 of them get shot down by point defence. 4 missiles still go through, possibly blowing up some of IH's ships. Then the interceptors fire six more missiles, and IH might not have as many ships still alive to shoot them down.

Whereas with Distortion Shield, it would just immediately change all 18 missiles from two-thirds of them hitting to only one-third hitting, going from about 12 hits down to 6 immediately.

[twelve]

Shit I've got to go. I hate to hold up the game. I'll be back in an hour or so.

[D'rek]

twelve, on 12 February 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

So say IH's interpretation of the rule is correct how would the following senario play out:

Twelve
2 Dreads 20 missles total, 6 inititive, +3 computers, 1 HP each
3 interceptors, 6 missles total, 5 inititive, +3 computers, 1 HP each

IH
2 Dreads, 4 ion cannons total, 3 inititive, +4 computers, 5 HP each
2 starbases, 2 ion cannons total, 5 inititive, +3 computer, 4 HP each

From his interpretation I would:
Fire my missles at IH from my dreads.
Dice are rolled and the number of hits determined.
Statistically it comes to 13.
Then he gets to fire 6 ion cannons at my 13 hits
I think he'll probably take out 5 missles
that leaves only 8 hits = 16 points of damage.
I would chose to take out his two dreads and one starbase
Then my interceptors get to fire their missles
4 of the 6 hit.
So it comes to a new coinflip with my missles.

Or would only the cannons from the ship I'm targeting get to fire at the incoming missles I target it for the hits?

Say I don't target any of the starbases with my Dreads so the cannons from the starbases don't get a chance to fire at incoming missles at all?

Yeah a rule clarification would definately be in order.

See my post above. Key point is that you target your missiles before he shoots them down.

[D'rek]

The question is, do you guys want to rewind time two actions to before twelve moved in the interceptors, now that we've clarified this?

[D'rek]

cerveza_fiesta, on 12 February 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Here's a good run-down and is the best example of generally-accepted practice (by referral from other threads) that I could find.
http://www.boardgame...938819#10938819

Essentially IH is correct and Drek's run-down is consistent with linked thread.

A good point from this link, too, is that you can assign overkill amounts of missiles to target a ship to prevent point defence from saving it - ie assign 5 plasma missiles to a ship with 4 HP, so point defence cannons have to shoot down 4 missiles to save it even though it only takes 2 to kill the ship.

[cerveza_fiesta]

@ twelve,

Up to you if you want to retract the move I guess (if other players are ok with that).

Rather than retracting the move, Couldn't you pivot and make a cannon/source upgrade to the dreads (at the expense of a missile slot) and remove the missiles from the interceptors?

You go really hog-wild and drop missiles from your fleet entirely and gain back a point of hull on your dreads. All of that would just take 1 upgrade action.

He doesn't have any shields and if you manage to hit with either of those antimatter cannons, he is going to be in rough shape. Rely on our inteceptors to mop up and deal the remaining necessary damage.

EDIT

You also have gobs of material and a few actions...we might be able to make it work.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 12 February 2013 - 05:06 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

Addendum @ Twelve

We are also both above IH on the initiative count, so if you did this:

swap plasma missile on center hull slot for source, swap left lower missile for AM cannon, uncover original ion cannon, uncover original interceptor ion cannon....

==========================

Then you would get to blast him with 7 ion cannons and 2 AM cannons, and I'd get 2 plasma cannons all before he gets to take a shot.

Of course, that places a lot of faith in the opening salvo, but odds are very good. Chances of hit with 7 ion cannons (gluon boosted against no shields) is like 80% of at least 3 hits, and chance of hit with 2 AM cannons is 90% of at least 1 hit.

my chance is 70% of at least 1 hit.

That should be enough to at least mop up the dreads if we're lucky, or a dread + starbase if things go poorly.

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, if we don't do enough damage in round 1, and only take out, say 1 dread, then he can one-shot any ship in our fleet with very good chance of success

==========================

considering the missile plan, he has an 88% chance of hitting at least 4 with his 5 shots.

You on the other hand have something like 83% chance of hitting with at least 7 with your dreads, but only like 30% of getting more than 4 with your interceptors. So in the opening salvo, chances are you would kill at least 1 dread and maybe get some support from me if your rolls go badly. Round two you have a very poor chance of survival with only 2 ion cannons and my own 2 plasma cannons.

=====================

Only problem is it kinda fucks you over for having to re-upgrade next turn, but if IH is going to be your main GC contender then maybe it's for the best that you keep some cannon support. I dunno, if you want to pursue IH then the decision on how to outfit ships seems clear to me.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 12 February 2013 - 05:37 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

Second addendum,

don't *think* I can forgo my upgrade if I want to maintain my advantage in Beta Leonis, but might be arm-twisted into sending a third interceptor if we're going with the cannon plan.

[twelve]

Okay that didn't take as long as I was expecting.

So key points I'm reading.

IH gets to fire his cannons against each ship type that has missles.
I have to assign my missle hits.
IH then fires his cannons to determine how many missles he takes out and then decides which missles he takes out.

So if I upgrade my dreads with 4 more missles then I would fire 20 missles.
2/3 hits ~ 13 missles
Say I assign
4 hits to Dread 1
4 hits to Dread 2
3 hits to Starbase 1
2 hits to Starbase 2

IH fires his 6 cannons 4 from his Dreads and 2 from the starbase.
Say 5 hit.
He could remove one missle hit from each of his ships and 2 from one leaving all of his ships still alive.

Then my interceptors fire 6 missles.
4 hit
IH fires his 6 cannons and all my missles are gone and my fleet is toast.

But if instead I allocate my Dread missle hits as follows
6 hits to Dread 1
7 hits to Dread 2

IH destroys 5 missles he can only save one ship and will probably take 5 away from Dread 1 leaving only 2 points of damage hitting

Then when my interceptors fire
4 hits again but now IH has one less ship so can only fire 4 cannons against the missles
Say one of my missles lands a hit and IH still has I severly damaged Dread and both starbases.

I still lose.

Fuck!!!

Even adding in 2 of CF's interceptors I still see us losing that battle though all that IH would have left would be a beat up starbase.

If I do what CF suggests and remove the missles for antimatter cannons on my Dread my interceptor's missles would not contribute at all to the fight so it would be my Dreads and CF's interceptors. If I miss with even one of my antimater cannons the opening round both of my dreads are most likely dead and we would lose the fight as well. If both hit then we will probably prevail but at the lost of ships on our side.

Regardless there was no way I was going to move my interceptors into Castor with what I now know about the point defense.

I'd like to change my last action if it's still okay.

Upgrade Starbase Nuclear Energy Gluon Computer
over the computer and gauss shield slots.

This post has been edited by twelve: 12 February 2013 - 06:12 PM

[twelve]

@ CF Like you said I don't want to have to completely change my blueprint for just one player. My missle ships will still wreck most other players so I can upgrade my starbases with Antimatter cannons like I was originally planning and I can still upgrade my cruiser with cannons as well to protect the GC from assault.

[twelve]

Oh and for the record. I realllllly hate point defense technology.

[cerveza_fiesta]

TURTLE TIME!!!

Losses would have been heavy but with 2 ion cannons on each dread + 1 AM cannon, 3 ion cannon interceptors and my 2-3 plasma cannon interceptors, I still say we could have done it.


ha. Well that makes things easier for me on the Eastern front. You want backup in the GC at all?

Hmm...this opens a possibility for a ninja reaction move into EM's territory, unless khell cuts me off like he said he was going to.

EDIT:

It does seem like a bit of an OP technology considering what other players have to counter it with. If you at least had to add it as a ship part (offsetting some of the cannon slots) then at least there'd be some detriment to using it.

But then again, massive amounts of missiles are pretty OP on their own...but at least you can counter it with shields and hull.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 12 February 2013 - 06:23 PM

[EmperorMagus]

Whose turn is it?

[Khellendros]

Hmm, twelve's cold feet puts a spanner in my otherwise fine and thoroughly evil plans. I don't see why you shouldn't change your blueprints to counter the person who is likely (definitely?) your main competitor. I mean, IH built up his armada in that fashion to counter YOU.

[Khellendros]

EmperorMagus, on 12 February 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Whose turn is it?

CF's.

[twelve]

Khellendros, on 12 February 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

Hmm, twelve's cold feet puts a spanner in my otherwise fine and thoroughly evil plans. I don't see why you shouldn't change your blueprints to counter the person who is likely (definitely?) your main competitor. I mean, IH built up his armada in that fashion to counter YOU.

I plan on doing a counter to his counter just on a different ship blueprint.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Oh, sorry, My move was unaffected by the rule interpretation ker-fuffle and I don't want to take it back anyway.

BUILD 1 INTERCEPTOR AND 1 CRUISER IN BETA LEONIS

[EmperorMagus]

I explore from Alpha Ursae Minoris.

[Khellendros]

I thought we'd done all exploring?

EM is being very mysterious - he never gives us an inside look into the workings of his mind, just posts his actions. EM, have you been following my intended actions in helping your cause?


...............................................................................



I shall take your silence as an affirmative.

[D'rek]

There are no explores left. You cannot explore!