[twelve]

Khellendros, on 12 February 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

I won't be deciding upon my action until I get an answer to this from the Flare (chuckle) Alliance.

Khellendros, on 12 February 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

What's happening with 201 Delta Eridani? That's a mightily delicious looking hex for one of my...colonising nature.

Take it Khell if you want it. IH is a bit reoccupied at the moment.

[twelve]

Point Defense:
After your opponent has rolled and allocated the dice for Missiles of one Ship type, you get to fire all your Cannons once against the incoming Missiles before they hit your fleet. Each die that hits destroys a Missile. Your Computers affect the Point Defense, but your opponent's Shields do not It says nothing that you get to do that for each ship type.

This post has been edited by twelve: 12 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

[cerveza_fiesta]

EM isn't going to have the *awesomest* chance of success. 1 dread against at least 3 plasma cannons and cruisers soon to be upgraded with missiles? Luck could be on his side, but the odds would definitely not be.

[twelve]

If what you are saying IH is true you get to shoot twice once for my interceptors and again for the Dreads then I'm fucked. You'll likely wipe out all the shots from my interceptors and the ones from my dreads that make it through won't be enough to wipe out all of your ships.

[Imperial Historian]

Yes you resolve for one ship type, then you resolve for the next ship type. It's essentially combat as normal save I get to fire at the missiles. Each ship fires one after the other.

[cerveza_fiesta]

I honestly read Twelve's interpretation of that rule...but my opinion really doesn't count in the matter since I'm in a conflict of interest.

I think if you were able to fire against missiles of each type of ship it would use the words "each type" in there somewhere. It's pretty explicit in the way it mentions one ship tipe and firing your cannons once.

[Imperial Historian]

If a misunderstanding of the rules affects what you were going to do I'm willing to let you do your move again. No one except your alliance has moved.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Are we 100% sure it's a misunderstanding on our part though?

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 12 February 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

If a misunderstanding of the rules affects what you were going to do I'm willing to let you do your move again. No one except your alliance has moved.

I'd like D'reks take on the rule as she is the only other player to have played this game before. Then I will decide if I want to change what I am going to do.

[Khellendros]

I know I tend to not know the rules a whole lot, but reading that passage, I also favour Twelve's interpretation.

[Imperial Historian]

OK I think the relevant info is in the FAQ section of the rules, but I'm on my phone so can't check. We had this argument last time I played, and someone produced an official ruling from somewhere

[D'rek]

cerveza_fiesta, on 12 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

@D'rek
Question about point defense: Does firing cannons at missiles preclude firing at ships for the first round of engagement?

No. It only affects the missile round. Engagement rounds occur as normal.

But he doesn't shoot at every missile individually. He shoots all his cannons at all the missiles fired by a ship type.

[twelve]

D, on 12 February 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 12 February 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

@D'rek
Question about point defense: Does firing cannons at missiles preclude firing at ships for the first round of engagement?

No. It only affects the missile round. Engagement rounds occur as normal.

But he doesn't shoot at every missile individually. He shoots all his cannons at all the missiles fired by a ship type.

This confuses me even more. How can he fire his cannons multiple times when the rules states he only fires once?

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 12 February 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

OK I think the relevant info is in the FAQ section of the rules, but I'm on my phone so can't check. We had this argument last time I played, and someone produced an official ruling from somewhere

If you can produce this then I'll conceed the rule in your favor. I'll make a contingency plan just in case.

[D'rek]

From the FAQ in the manual:

Quote

Q: Can Point Defense be used against Missiles assigned
to your Allies' Ships?
A: No, only against Missiles assigned to your own
Ships.

Q: What if my opponent has several Ship types with
missiles – can I use Point Defense against each Ship
type?
A: Yes. The base combat rules state that dice are rolled
and resolved separately for each Ship type.

[Khellendros]

Yeah, what D'rek says, I just read it too. In fact, in the FAQs, there are three questions involving Point Defense, so clearly it's a divisive technology

[D'rek]

So the missile round between Twelve and IH would go like this:


-Twelve rolls orange dice for all his dreadnaughts' (initiatve: 6) missiles to fire
-Twelve assigns each die to one of IH's ships, or discards those that can't hit anything
-IH rolls a die for all his cannons (all ship types)
-for each successful die roll (computers count), IH can remove one missile assigned to his ships (his choice which one(s))
-the remaining missile dice are resolved, killing IH's ships and stuff
-Twelve rolls orange dice for all his interceptors' (initiatve: 5) missiles to fire
-Twelve assigns each die to one of IH's ships, or discards those that can't hit anything
-IH rolls a die for all his cannons (all ship types)
-for each successful die roll (computers count), IH can remove one missile assigned to his ships (his choice which one(s))
-the remaining missile dice are resolved, killing more of IH's ships and stuff
-missile round ends, we proceed to engagement rounds

[D'rek]

Khellendros, on 12 February 2013 - 04:47 PM, said:

Yeah, what D'rek says, I just read it too. In fact, in the FAQs, there are three questions involving Point Defense, so clearly it's a divisive technology

Yeah. With what Twelve was saying earlier about IH getting the splitter, it's almost like he had already read this:

Quote

Q: Isn't the combination of Antimatter Cannon, Antimatter
Splitter and Point Defense extremely strong
against Missiles?
A: It is very strong. If you are relying on a Missile-only
fleet, make sure you do not make enemies with that
player – or do not let him get all three Technologies.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Here's a good run-down and is the best example of generally-accepted practice (by referral from other threads) that I could find.
http://www.boardgame...938819#10938819

Essentially IH is correct and Drek's run-down is consistent with linked thread.

[twelve]

So say IH's interpretation of the rule is correct how would the following senario play out:

Twelve
2 Dreads 20 missles total, 6 inititive, +3 computers, 1 HP each
3 interceptors, 6 missles total, 5 inititive, +3 computers, 1 HP each

IH
2 Dreads, 4 ion cannons total, 3 inititive, +4 computers, 5 HP each
2 starbases, 2 ion cannons total, 5 inititive, +3 computer, 4 HP each

From his interpretation I would:
Fire my missles at IH from my dreads.
Dice are rolled and the number of hits determined.
Statistically it comes to 13.
Then he gets to fire 6 ion cannons at my 13 hits
I think he'll probably take out 5 missles
that leaves only 8 hits = 16 points of damage.
I would chose to take out his two dreads and one starbase
Then my interceptors get to fire their missles
4 of the 6 hit.
So it comes to a new coinflip with my missles.

Or would only the cannons from the ship I'm targeting get to fire at the incoming missles I target it for the hits?

Say I don't target any of the starbases with my Dreads so the cannons from the starbases don't get a chance to fire at incoming missles at all?

Yeah a rule clarification would definately be in order.