[QuickTidal]

Aptorius, on 10 December 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

"the fantasy version of Oceans 11", which the book is nothing like at all, that threw me for a loop.

Actually. It really is like that. Just with less members involved. But the heist nature of the plot is VERY Ocean's 11 when you nail it down in the finale.

Not sure how that threw you for a loop.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 December 2012 - 07:14 PM

[Aptorian]

It's been a long while since I read the book so you must forgive me if I can't use specific details, but Lies was not like Oceans 11 at all. Oceans 11 was a heist movie, centered around a funny bunch of quirky characters, it centres around a daring plan and the story relies on a bunch of twists and missdirections to surprise the watcher and keep it interesting.

Lies of Locke Lamora spoilers

Spoiler

As far as I recall about 1/3 of the way through LoLL, the crew get the shit kicked out of them, in fact they stop being a crew and become two guys, and from then on in Lamora is always one step behind. He has to rely on desperate plans that are less than impressive like that part about him going through hoops to get a nice suit. It's only when the bad guy shows his hand and ... shit I don't remember the details of, are in motion that Lamora manages to become the monkey wrench in the bad guys machination. From the book description I read, I was expecting plans within plans, with Lamora always either being in control, or having a plan to get out of things, what we got was some kind of revenge plot thing with an over ambitious con man grasping at straws.

Still it had one of my favorite book chapters ever. The one about "The boy who stole too much". I found that to be a brilliant characterization of Lamora.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 10 December 2012 - 08:49 PM

[Sinisdar Toste]

lies of locke lamora has always stuck in my head because of the title. maybe i'll finally pick it up. i like black middle-aged pirate moms - i went as one for halloween!

[Salt-Man Z]

The hook for Lies was always that it was a "fantasy Ocean's 11", but it definitely takes an abrupt left turn partway through the book. Up to that point, though, "fantasy Ocean's 11" is as good a way to describe it as anything.

[worry]

That settles it. Write this down in stone. I might read it someday.

[Eddie Dean]

I've been searching for this blog post from Scott Lynch for like 30 minutes. So read it if you are interested in Lynch's depression and anxiety issues:

http://scott-lynch.l...com/261555.html

[worry]

Yah I checked the wiki. They've all even got names already, like he's SE or something.

[polishgenius]

One thing that I've heard that might appease some of you worrying about huge delays on future books is that, supposedly, he's taken to drafting the next book while editing the current one, which should mean (hopefully) that each subsequent one will be some way to completion by the time the current one comes out.

[Macros]

I always viewed the second book as oceans 12.
the heist, the hold they have on them etc.

first book I loved and as far as trying to tie it to a popular modern movie reference, oceans 11 is probably close enough to the mark for marketing people. I cant really think of another hook that fits.

[polishgenius]

Oceans 11 crossed with The Godfather is the description I always got.

[Werthead]

Cause, on 10 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Scot Lynch is depressed? When, what why?

He's been through the meat-grinder in the last five years. He got married and divorced in rapid succession, had at least one close family member pass away and he has a highly hazardous and stressful day job (as a firefighter). These are all, obviously, highly problematical things to deal with if you are also writing an eagerly-awaited novel.

Another issue might be that the second book got a lot more mixed reviews than the first one, and Scott took some of the criticism seriously (I know he took one criticism I raised - amongst many others - and agreed that it was at least slightly damaging to the book's resolution). From that it's also possible he's simply over-perfectionising on the third book to the point of not simply releasing it into the wild and getting on with the rest of the series (perhaps a slighy case of GRRMitis) in favour of rewrites.

The problem with Book 2 raised above:

Spoiler

Lynch fails to establish the noble family that Lamora calls on for aid to help resolve the end of the novel. That came out of nowhere for me and took me right out of the novel. Apparently the family do make a blink-and-you-miss-them appearance at the gambling establishment at the start of the novel - I foolishly gave away my only copy of the book so can't double-check that - but Lynch apparently felt that he failed to properly establish them as allies of Lamora rather than just mere acquaintances).

[D'rek]

Werthead, on 11 December 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

Cause, on 10 December 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Scot Lynch is depressed? When, what why?

He's been through the meat-grinder in the last five years. He got married and divorced in rapid succession, had at least one close family member pass away and he has a highly hazardous and stressful day job (as a firefighter). These are all, obviously, highly problematical things to deal with if you are also writing an eagerly-awaited novel.

Another issue might be that the second book got a lot more mixed reviews than the first one, and Scott took some of the criticism seriously (I know he took one criticism I raised - amongst many others - and agreed that it was at least slightly damaging to the book's resolution). From that it's also possible he's simply over-perfectionising on the third book to the point of not simply releasing it into the wild and getting on with the rest of the series (perhaps a slighy case of GRRMitis) in favour of rewrites.

The problem with Book 2 raised above:

Spoiler

Lynch fails to establish the noble family that Lamora calls on for aid to help resolve the end of the novel. That came out of nowhere for me and took me right out of the novel. Apparently the family do make a blink-and-you-miss-them appearance at the gambling establishment at the start of the novel - I foolishly gave away my only copy of the book so can't double-check that - but Lynch apparently felt that he failed to properly establish them as allies of Lamora rather than just mere acquaintances).

Really? I never saw that as much of a problem.

Spoiler

The priori were certainly introduced and detailed well, and not specifically dealing with them but then realizing at the end that they'd been missing that worked well, IMO. Plus it made for a good mystery of who the assassins hunting them were.

[Salt-Man Z]

Good response by Lynch and well-deserved, but am I the only one getting weary of the "let's all congratulate ourselves for insulting bigots" that seems to be all the rage on the internet the past year or so?

[Illuyankas]

No. Fuck bigots.

[amphibian]

Illuyankas, on 11 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

No. Fuck bigots.

I'd rather refuse to tolerate them and their corrosive discourse than to have anything to do with fucking them.

[worry]

Again, this was not a recent exchange, just new to me. On the other hand, I agree with Illy anyway. On the third hand, I have no idea what you're talking about in terms of a trend arising this year. The closest I can think of is the It Gets Better campaign which is a few years old now and is generally an awesome idea despite the fact that it didn't solve everything everywhere immediately as its critics seemed to require. It did attract a whole bunch of tagalong celebs and stuff too, but I don't care about that.

[King Lear]

Aside from Dan Savage being a terrible human being...

[worry]

No way, broseph. I like him, he's just a little caustic sometimes. And while I'm not admitting to any personal flaws whatsoever, I just might know -- through observation, osmosis, legend, and hearsay -- what it's like when one occasionally puts their foot in their mouth.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I just recently read Red Seas Under Red Skies after being interested but not blown away by Lies of Locke Lamora. I seem to be in the minority who actually enjoyed RSURS more than its predecessor. They're definitely more than worth a read!

Republic of Thieves is on the to-read list right after I've worked through my ever inviting pile of Esslemont books

PS. I want to go to the pub with Scott Lynch and have a beer. From those exchanges, he seems like a rather decent chap!

[Brujah]

I've just started The Lies of Locke Lamora, and I have to admit I'm not far enough in to properly judge it, but I'm severely disappointed due to extreme boredom so far. I'm wondering if any others felt the series starts slow and gets better - much like the Dresden Files. I was looking forward to this series on my reading list for a while, and I'm hoping it gets better.