[Tattersail_]

Bubba, on 07 December 2012 - 11:18 PM, said:

Bullshit. I am voting for Azath because I DON'T think he is a finder. The only person i will swap my vote to Tatt's. His play over the last 24hs has been pushing to say the least. I was willing to with pics being some sort of scum tactic, but now i'm not so sure

He mentions this.

After we had found Blend to be a killer Bubba was away from the thread for ages thnking about what to do.
This post should prove his lies.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 07 December 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

Brujah, on 07 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

It looks possible to finish the game over the weekend

Erm, this doesn't sound very good for team inno to me!

Or team scum knowing Blend or Bubba was to be night killed.

[Tattersail_]

This is the post that made me change my mind on whether Starling was PI or scum. Without this post I would not have suspected her. She would be town in my mind. Yet her point is not about posts but about content. The content she has provided has been centered around me mostly. She only seems to appear when she is the subject of conversation which is scummy in and of itself.

Starling, on 08 December 2012 - 03:29 AM, said:

Right, caught up and I have lots of notes, so in the interest of continuing the trend I'll put out thoughts for each player.

Starting with Tatts: his play is still bothering me. He's "convinced" me and Gnaw are inno, because of how little we've been posting. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think the amount a player posts has any relevance to what role they have. I do tend to low post, every game I'm in, and that doesn't change whether I'm town or scum. The only time I've ever tried to up my post count is when I've played faction leader, and even that tends to trickle off as the game progresses. Tatt's conviction has my skin crawling, it feels too much like fake-symping to me, and he has mentioned it a couple of times. I also think it's interesting that Venge was jumped on for mentioning that he was playing RI this game, but it went completely unnoticed when Tatts did it. His reaction to the Azath reveal is also telling, he seems to find it more credible than I would expect, particularly since Azath wasn't NKed. This could also explain why his fake symping is so blatant, as he is trying to deflect from his symping of Azath.

Azath's reveal and subsequent survival are also problematic. In particular, it was very convenient that he found GH, who was NKed. As other people have said, there were several others who were being pointed out over the course of the game, and lots of connections being speculated about. GH had no fingers pointing at him, and he appeared to have no connections to other players, so a find on him, based on meta-reasoning, is an odd choice. In addition, beyond the first glance his find on Gnaw seems odd as well. Sure, at the beginning of the day Gnaw seemed like a good choice for a find, for that wonky vote he put down and his defence of it. But by the end of the day, with the vote swing, there were several people I would have chosen for a find over Gnaw; Tatts, HO and Shin at the top of the list, and we know Azath was around at the end because he hammered.

Shin has built a few cases, responded constructively to my poking and generally been fairly helpful. His play has put him out there more than I would expect of scum, so for now he is lower on my list of scum suspects. His thoughts on why Azath wasn't NKed are plausible.

Bubba has been playing mostly under the radar. He has been connected at various times with Shin, Venge, EM, Tatts, Khell and Blend. His comment that Tatts was trying to get him lynched is a somewhat valid point, and I like his case on Azath.

I don't have much to say about Khell. Defends himself when connected to anyone else, but has no interest in building cases on anyone.

Blend has been connected by GH to Azath and Khell, and by Shin to Tatts. He emphasises how scummy he found Venge; "Venge pulls the scummy shit he did", "Venge was certainly acting a bunch more scummy", although he can only find one quote to back up his claims, and the majority of the lynch was based around Venge playing "too nice". It feels like scum trying to justify his vote. He accuses me of symping Tatts, for my case on him earlier, which would be a seriously stupid move for me, if I was a symp. He spends a lot of time attempting to devalue Tatts' case against him, and trying to direct attention elsewhere.

I also have very little on Gnaw. His tactic of low-posting is rather irritating, but his having come out and announced that it was his tactic seems to lend credence to the idea that he is RI experimenting, I also agree with his statement that now could be a good time for scum to take the lead, much in the way that GH is so good at doing.

I have no notes at all on HO. Nothing.

So the underlined part made me step back and hesitate.

The part about Bubba is interesting because she says he is connected to many people just as a symp should be. She leaves HO out. She gives her opinion on Blend as well. Is there a conclusion?

[Tattersail_]

Starling, on 08 December 2012 - 03:34 AM, said:

So, to conclude:

I feel that Tatts and Azath are connected. Tatts downplaying the possibility that Azath has fake-revealed is most telling to me. Azath's behaviour since the reveal has been entirely too convenient, and I am suspicious that he is still alive.

In addition, I'm getting a scummy feeling from Blend, although I'm not seeing a connection with either Tatts or Azath. I'd be prepared to vote for any one of these three.

And now, I have to get ready for work. Hopefully I'll be able to post from work, depends how busy we are and how much of the thread I can access. Since it's a weekend break now I'm not expecting a lot of participation, but it would be nice to use this time to discuss what we are going to do.

So she is a little suspicious of Blend (distancing) but doesn't place a vote and I think votes elsewhere..

[Tattersail_]

Starling, on 10 December 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

Bubba, on 10 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Azathmaster, on 10 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Let me put this forward. Just believe, even if you don't, I am a finder (I am). If you lynch me today, who will the killers likely kill? Tats or Gnaw. Gnaw will become VPI, and Tats' reluctance to cote me today has made some people say that he will be inno if I am. I'd bet the killer(s) kill gnaw. Town will have lost a finder and a PI in one cycle if I'm lynched.

If I'm scum (hypothetically), lynching me will either win the game, or kill half the pair. I'd bet on a killer pair, as a finder could end the game day 2 with a lucky find if only 1 killer. You'd be halfway finished, and would have some leads yes, but even if I was a killer. Lynching me tomorrow instead would make you lose only a single extra townie and still have a good majority, and would let you take a chance this lynch without huge repurcussions later in the game.

My problem Azath is, If we don't lynch you, we are screwed tomorrow. If you are scum and we lynch off town today, Scum kill again tonight. You come on tomorrow and say you found scum(really an Inno) we lynch them scum wins. There is no way to trust you in my book.

This. Yes.

And this is the problem I have with Tatts' recommendation that we wait until tomorrow to lynch Azath, and why I think they are connected.

Vote Azathmaster

Yeah Starling agreeing with bubba. I know Bubba is scum. Fact.

I am unsure on Starling. When Shin, Bubba and I are gone that will leave HO, Khell and Starling. I think in this situation Starling has to go.

Unless we do not lynch tomorrow and take it down to three.

All this comes from Bubba's fake reveal.

[Tattersail_]

Bubba, on 11 December 2012 - 05:54 AM, said:

Well that is game if you guys play it right.

First off let me say DO vote me off today. It is the only way you will see I'm telling the truth.

First off, I am the real finder. I have been getting a find in every other night. The Pics have been me.

I tried to show you all that Tatts was one of the killers, but their symp jumped to the rescue with his counter reveal.

So I played it safe, waiting for the other killer to make an appearance. Great job shin.

Now that all are revealed. I have no problem giving up this info.

Great game everyone.

Khell look at the confidence here. He has fake revealed and WANTS us to lynch him first. That can only be confidence he'll show up innocent. You lynch me tomorrow and that will be a scum win. Death tonight and tomorrow night.

[Starling]

Tattersail, on 11 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Starling, on 10 December 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

Bubba, on 10 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Azathmaster, on 10 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Let me put this forward. Just believe, even if you don't, I am a finder (I am). If you lynch me today, who will the killers likely kill? Tats or Gnaw. Gnaw will become VPI, and Tats' reluctance to cote me today has made some people say that he will be inno if I am. I'd bet the killer(s) kill gnaw. Town will have lost a finder and a PI in one cycle if I'm lynched.

If I'm scum (hypothetically), lynching me will either win the game, or kill half the pair. I'd bet on a killer pair, as a finder could end the game day 2 with a lucky find if only 1 killer. You'd be halfway finished, and would have some leads yes, but even if I was a killer. Lynching me tomorrow instead would make you lose only a single extra townie and still have a good majority, and would let you take a chance this lynch without huge repurcussions later in the game.

My problem Azath is, If we don't lynch you, we are screwed tomorrow. If you are scum and we lynch off town today, Scum kill again tonight. You come on tomorrow and say you found scum(really an Inno) we lynch them scum wins. There is no way to trust you in my book.

This. Yes.

And this is the problem I have with Tatts' recommendation that we wait until tomorrow to lynch Azath, and why I think they are connected.

Vote Azathmaster

Yeah Starling agreeing with bubba. I know Bubba is scum. Fact.

I am unsure on Starling. When Shin, Bubba and I are gone that will leave HO, Khell and Starling. I think in this situation Starling has to go.

Unless we do not lynch tomorrow and take it down to three.

All this comes from Bubba's fake reveal.

I'd hope that were I scum I would be a little less obvious than this...

[Tattersail_]

Starling, on 11 December 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

Tattersail, on 11 December 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

Starling, on 10 December 2012 - 07:17 AM, said:

Bubba, on 10 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Azathmaster, on 10 December 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

Let me put this forward. Just believe, even if you don't, I am a finder (I am). If you lynch me today, who will the killers likely kill? Tats or Gnaw. Gnaw will become VPI, and Tats' reluctance to cote me today has made some people say that he will be inno if I am. I'd bet the killer(s) kill gnaw. Town will have lost a finder and a PI in one cycle if I'm lynched.

If I'm scum (hypothetically), lynching me will either win the game, or kill half the pair. I'd bet on a killer pair, as a finder could end the game day 2 with a lucky find if only 1 killer. You'd be halfway finished, and would have some leads yes, but even if I was a killer. Lynching me tomorrow instead would make you lose only a single extra townie and still have a good majority, and would let you take a chance this lynch without huge repurcussions later in the game.

My problem Azath is, If we don't lynch you, we are screwed tomorrow. If you are scum and we lynch off town today, Scum kill again tonight. You come on tomorrow and say you found scum(really an Inno) we lynch them scum wins. There is no way to trust you in my book.

This. Yes.

And this is the problem I have with Tatts' recommendation that we wait until tomorrow to lynch Azath, and why I think they are connected.

Vote Azathmaster

Yeah Starling agreeing with bubba. I know Bubba is scum. Fact.

I am unsure on Starling. When Shin, Bubba and I are gone that will leave HO, Khell and Starling. I think in this situation Starling has to go.

Unless we do not lynch tomorrow and take it down to three.

All this comes from Bubba's fake reveal.

I'd hope that were I scum I would be a little less obvious than this...

I didn't think you were scum until Bubba's reveal. Out of Khell, HO and yourself, you are the most likely to turn out scum. I'm glad you are around to post now and give us your thoughts.

What do you make of Bubba's reveal?

[Tattersail_]

Also what are your thoughts on Khell and HO?

[Starling]

On Bubba's reveal: I don't like it. I would like an answer to my question, and I'd like to know why he didn't counter-reveal. If he had found scum, we could have tested his reveal by lynching you, and that would have given us Azath as well. It doesn't make sense not to challenge someone who is basically feeding information to the thread, if you know that that information is false and can prove it.

[Tattersail_]

Starling, on 11 December 2012 - 11:02 AM, said:

On Bubba's reveal: I don't like it. I would like an answer to my question, and I'd like to know why he didn't counter-reveal. If he had found scum, we could have tested his reveal by lynching you, and that would have given us Azath as well. It doesn't make sense not to challenge someone who is basically feeding information to the thread, if you know that that information is false and can prove it.

This 100%.

Bubba's reveal smacks of symp. So who is the last killer? Only if he CF's innocent.

[Khellendros]

I'll have a look at Tats and Blend interaction when I get a chance later.

[Starling]

Having done a quick skim through of the game, I can see that HO took a few half-hearted stabs at players through day one, but didn't follow any of them through. The only half-substantial posts he makes are in defence of himself, and he asks several times for updates or run-downs, which seems to indicate that he is not actually reading the thread. All I can find to say against him is that he seems to have been (if possible) even less present today than he had been earlier in the game. I can see no connections between him and anyone else, because the only interactions he has are when he responds to someone who mentions him directly.

It's going to take me longer to post thoughts about Khell.

Also, if it was GH posting like you are now, Tatts, I would vote for him immediately. Your current style is very reminiscent of him when he can see victory in sight

[Tattersail_]

Starling, on 11 December 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Having done a quick skim through of the game, I can see that HO took a few half-hearted stabs at players through day one, but didn't follow any of them through. The only half-substantial posts he makes are in defence of himself, and he asks several times for updates or run-downs, which seems to indicate that he is not actually reading the thread. All I can find to say against him is that he seems to have been (if possible) even less present today than he had been earlier in the game. I can see no connections between him and anyone else, because the only interactions he has are when he responds to someone who mentions him directly.

It's going to take me longer to post thoughts about Khell.

Also, if it was GH posting like you are now, Tatts, I would vote for him immediately. Your current style is very reminiscent of him when he can see victory in sight

Every day has been the same for me. Especially around this time. My posting hasn't changed. Shin asked for it if you look back.

[Khellendros]

Starling, on 11 December 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

Having done a quick skim through of the game, I can see that HO took a few half-hearted stabs at players through day one, but didn't follow any of them through. The only half-substantial posts he makes are in defence of himself, and he asks several times for updates or run-downs, which seems to indicate that he is not actually reading the thread. All I can find to say against him is that he seems to have been (if possible) even less present today than he had been earlier in the game. I can see no connections between him and anyone else, because the only interactions he has are when he responds to someone who mentions him directly.

It's going to take me longer to post thoughts about Khell.

Also, if it was GH posting like you are now, Tatts, I would vote for him immediately. Your current style is very reminiscent of him when he can see victory in sight

Exactly my thoughts.

[Tattersail_]

One of you two is a killer if Bubba is not.

Argh!!!

Fuck this game.

I am out until after the Bubba lynch and we can see were we are. Unless you want to do it the other way? No scum would win outright if you did it the other way, there'd be two and two after night. Lynch the symp/killer Bubba first.

[bubba]

Holy Shit Tatts! Three whole pages of you squirming. That may be a record.

You really are trying to wriggle out of this. Admit it, it's over. Your partner and your symp are gone. Game over.

Vote Tatts

[Tattersail_]

Bubba, on 11 December 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Holy Shit Tatts! Three whole pages of you squirming. That may be a record.

You really are trying to wriggle out of this. Admit it, it's over. Your partner and your symp are gone. Game over.

Vote Tatts

Nice turn around for you wanting us to vote yourself who is heavily connected to Blend and team scum.

We'll see won't we.

[Khellendros]

Bubba, on 11 December 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

Holy Shit Tatts! Three whole pages of you squirming. That may be a record.

You really are trying to wriggle out of this. Admit it, it's over. Your partner and your symp are gone. Game over.

Vote Tatts

Bubba, it would be nice to get a bit more info from you.

Like, who were your other finds?

And why didn't you push on Tats before?

[Tattersail_]

In Bubba's scenario I am the last of the scum.

In mine it is either he is the killer trying to buy one more day hoping his symp is alive.

Or he is the symp with the killer alive.

In his scenario if you lynch me you win. Yet in mine you lynch me you lose. There could very well be two scum out there including Bubba.

You lynch him then it is open ended. You either go wrong and lynch me or we figure out who the last one is.

Personally I think Bubba will come up as the killer but nothing surprises me anymore.