[blackzoid]

No, not Assail as two books. He said a few times that he was writing the epilogue to the entire MboTF sequence. Then he subsequently said that he needed to also write a book that talks about things that happen elsewhere during the climax of TCG. Seeing that the Jacruuku book was not originally on the list from a few years ago, and having read the entire book, I can think we can safely say that Assail will be just a single epilogue book.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 06 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

[Fist Gamet]

Well, about one fifth of the way through so far, and I am struggling in a fashion I never thought I would with a Malazan book. I will see it through but this is really quite awful. There, never thought I'd say that either. Directionless and un-involving story, flat, tired characters who are pale shadows of all those who have come before in the Malazan world, and a genuine problem with grammar throughout. I swear, if I read about one more character clenching their teeth and struggling with their temper I shall scream! A number of them - Crimson Guard, for instance - are so unimpressive that their emotions and dialogue are almost adolescent and pathetic at times. I mean, Skinner, K'azz etc, these guys are legendary Malazan world characters, ffs! I do not recognise them as the same characters I enjoyed in RoTCG.

Please, someone explain to ICE that he really really does not need to explain every detail of what is going on as it happens, some of us actually enjoy filling in the gaps. It is simply poor writing.

Rant done, I guess

[Asharak]

blackzoid, on 06 December 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

No, not Assail as two books. He said a few times that he was writing the epilogue to the entire MboTF sequence. Then he subsequently said that he needed to also write a book that talks about things that happen elsewhere during the climax of TCG. Seeing that the Jacruuku book was not originally on the list from a few years ago, and having read the entire book, I can think we can safely say that Assail will be just a single epilogue book.

The Jacurucku book has been mentioned by Esslemont for at least 3 years, It used to be called "City in the Jungle", but they changed the name.

Possibly splitting the last book into two parts has been mentioned by him several times in the last few years, and its been clear for several years now

that we would get at least a Jacurucku book and a book on Assail.

[Sinisdar Toste]

i don't think the assail novel is going to disappoint, unless of course the disappointment has to do with the usual ICE problems that seem to crop up. he's got the whole mystery with the tyrants and their power, plus the remaining clans of t'lan imass are going there, and now the CG too. his only difficulty will be in balancing what he reveals and what he leaves out and then how satisfying the pay off is.

[blackzoid]

Asharak, on 08 December 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

blackzoid, on 06 December 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

No, not Assail as two books. He said a few times that he was writing the epilogue to the entire MboTF sequence. Then he subsequently said that he needed to also write a book that talks about things that happen elsewhere during the climax of TCG. Seeing that the Jacruuku book was not originally on the list from a few years ago, and having read the entire book, I can think we can safely say that Assail will be just a single epilogue book.

The Jacurucku book has been mentioned by Esslemont for at least 3 years, It used to be called "City in the Jungle", but they changed the name.

Possibly splitting the last book into two parts has been mentioned by him several times in the last few years, and its been clear for several years now

that we would get at least a Jacurucku book and a book on Assail.

I know that but when I first started reading the books 5 years ago, we knew of 5 books that ICE would do atogether:
NoK
ROTCG
The Korel Book
The Darujistan Book
The Assail Book

Jacruuku was added later as a book. Trust me, it was not mentioned as a book by ICE in 2007. Thats why I thought TCG would originally be on Jacruuku.

[Asharak]

blackzoid, on 09 December 2012 - 09:53 PM, said:

Asharak, on 08 December 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

blackzoid, on 06 December 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

No, not Assail as two books. He said a few times that he was writing the epilogue to the entire MboTF sequence. Then he subsequently said that he needed to also write a book that talks about things that happen elsewhere during the climax of TCG. Seeing that the Jacruuku book was not originally on the list from a few years ago, and having read the entire book, I can think we can safely say that Assail will be just a single epilogue book.

The Jacurucku book has been mentioned by Esslemont for at least 3 years, It used to be called "City in the Jungle", but they changed the name.

Possibly splitting the last book into two parts has been mentioned by him several times in the last few years, and its been clear for several years now

that we would get at least a Jacurucku book and a book on Assail.

I know that but when I first started reading the books 5 years ago, we knew of 5 books that ICE would do atogether:
NoK
ROTCG
The Korel Book
The Darujistan Book
The Assail Book

Jacruuku was added later as a book. Trust me, it was not mentioned as a book by ICE in 2007. Thats why I thought TCG would originally be on Jacruuku.

Ok. Just saying the Jacuruku book has been established as separate from the possibly two Assail books for a while now.

[blackzoid]

Sorry to say but no. We had interviews from ICE that years ago he was just writing an epilogue book.
Then the Jacruuku book arrived as an idea around the same time ICE started talking about having a book which takes place during the climax of TCG and then a seperate epilogue book. The book taking place during the climax of TCG is obviously Blood and Bone. Whereas years ago ICE and SE always spoke about ICE's last book being just an epilogue book. Assail has never been considered 2 books. 5 ICE books not including Blood and Bone at the start of his career and 6 including it later. Not 7. Now if pressed, its possible that he could have had 2 possible Assail books in mind with one taking place on Jacruuku and the other cutting to Assail throughout? Thats the only possible way the 2 Assail books theory would work with what we know.


EDIT: Just to stop the arguing in circles bit:

http://encyclopediam...01%20%282006%29

As Steve has hinted, future novels past Return are planned to deal with the Korel campaigns, a return to Darujhistan, and, finally, the mysteries of the Assail continent. As this point things are so tentative I’m reluctant to go any further and risk painting myself into a corner.


http://encyclopediam...02%20%282006%29

- You claimed that your last Malazan novel would act as a sort of epilogue to Steven's tenth volume in THE MALAZAN BOOK OF THE FALLEN. In our previous interview, it was revealed that you felt you might even have to split it in two different project: one to compliment Steven's last book, and another which would be the epilogue. Now that you are both under contract with Transworld, will there be any attempt to make those projects coincide for a final Malazan climax down the line?

If Steve and I can work out the details on a closer integration then it might be possible. My instincts are that simply the sheer number of stories involved would mean that neither of us could do justice to all in any one novel. After that the final “epilogue” would always still stand on its own as originally worked out.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 10 December 2012 - 06:23 PM

[Asharak]

blackzoid, on 10 December 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

Sorry to say but no. We had interviews from ICE that years ago he was just writing an epilogue book.
Then the Jacruuku book arrived as an idea around the same time ICE started talking about having a book which takes place during the climax of TCG and then a seperate epilogue book. The book taking place during the climax of TCG is obviously Blood and Bone. Whereas years ago ICE and SE always spoke about ICE's last book being just an epilogue book. Assail has never been considered 2 books. 5 ICE books not including Blood and Bone at the start of his career and 6 including it later. Not 7. Now if pressed, its possible that he could have had 2 possible Assail books in mind with one taking place on Jacruuku and the other cutting to Assail throughout? Thats the only possible way the 2 Assail books theory would work with what we know.


EDIT: Just to stop the arguing in circles bit:

http://encyclopediam...01%20%282006%29

As Steve has hinted, future novels past Return are planned to deal with the Korel campaigns, a return to Darujhistan, and, finally, the mysteries of the Assail continent. As this point things are so tentative I’m reluctant to go any further and risk painting myself into a corner.


http://encyclopediam...02%20%282006%29

- You claimed that your last Malazan novel would act as a sort of epilogue to Steven's tenth volume in THE MALAZAN BOOK OF THE FALLEN. In our previous interview, it was revealed that you felt you might even have to split it in two different project: one to compliment Steven's last book, and another which would be the epilogue. Now that you are both under contract with Transworld, will there be any attempt to make those projects coincide for a final Malazan climax down the line?

If Steve and I can work out the details on a closer integration then it might be possible. My instincts are that simply the sheer number of stories involved would mean that neither of us could do justice to all in any one novel. After that the final “epilogue” would always still stand on its own as originally worked out.

Ok. well done.

[D'rek]

I'm about 130 pages and really enjoying it so far!

[pat5150]

Fist Gamet, on 08 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

Well, about one fifth of the way through so far, and I am struggling in a fashion I never thought I would with a Malazan book. I will see it through but this is really quite awful. There, never thought I'd say that either. Directionless and un-involving story, flat, tired characters who are pale shadows of all those who have come before in the Malazan world, and a genuine problem with grammar throughout. I swear, if I read about one more character clenching their teeth and struggling with their temper I shall scream! A number of them - Crimson Guard, for instance - are so unimpressive that their emotions and dialogue are almost adolescent and pathetic at times. I mean, Skinner, K'azz etc, these guys are legendary Malazan world characters, ffs! I do not recognise them as the same characters I enjoyed in RoTCG.

Please, someone explain to ICE that he really really does not need to explain every detail of what is going on as it happens, some of us actually enjoy filling in the gaps. It is simply poor writing.

Rant done, I guess

More than halfway through. . .

And sadly, I wholeheartedly agree with you thus far. . .

Patrick

[Abyss]

pat5150, on 22 December 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Fist Gamet, on 08 December 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

...A number of them - Crimson Guard, for instance - are so unimpressive that their emotions and dialogue are almost adolescent and pathetic at times. I mean, Skinner, K'azz etc, these guys are legendary Malazan world characters, ffs! I do not recognise them as the same characters I enjoyed in RoTCG....

...And sadly, I wholeheartedly agree with you thus far. . .

K'azz was in RCG for about ten pages and no pov. Skinner was a complete cipher for the entire RCG book except the one scene when he goes travelling with Cowl to KT... all of which is to say how do you say you don't recognize the characters when you have so little to recognize them from?

Is it perhaps fair to say that you had expectations and don't love the way the author chose to write the characters as other than you expected?

Just my $0.02 CDN, but I thought ICE's development of Kazz, Skinner and the other Guard in both factions were one of the best parts about this book.

[pat5150]

Abyss, on 23 December 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

K'azz was in RCG for about ten pages and no pov. Skinner was a complete cipher for the entire RCG book except the one scene when he goes travelling with Cowl to KT... all of which is to say how do you say you don't recognize the characters when you have so little to recognize them from?

Is it perhaps fair to say that you had expectations and don't love the way the author chose to write the characters as other than you expected?

Just my $0.02 CDN, but I thought ICE's development of Kazz, Skinner and the other Guard in both factions were one of the best parts about this book.

You may have something there, Abyss. Readers reacting like me could be victims of their own expectations. Fair enough. . .

But that doesn't change the fact that, insofar as I have read (give or take 350 pages), the characterization is decidedly subpar and by far the weakest of any Malazan book to date. As things stand, I find that aspect of the novel so poor that if it wasn't ICE, I would have stopped reading. . .

The Forgotten Realms analogy of the other thread still stands, unfortunately.

Reading on. . .

Patrick

[Gnaw]

pat5150, on 23 December 2012 - 11:48 PM, said:

But that doesn't change the fact that, insofar as I have read (give or take 350 pages), the characterization is decidedly subpar and by far the weakest of any Malazan book to date. As things stand, I find that aspect of the novel so poor that if it wasn't ICE, I would have stopped reading. . .


Patrick

I've not started this one yet. And you're not giving much encouragement.
Try repeating this mantra "ICE is writing in an alternate wuverse"for a couple of pages and see if it helps. It worked for me for OST.

[Asharak]

"But that doesn't change the fact that, insofar as I have read (give or take 350 pages), the characterization is decidedly subpar and by far the weakest of any Malazan book to date. As things stand, I find that aspect of the novel so poor that if it wasn't ICE, I would have stopped reading. . . "



In what way are they subpar? Really don't see how you can say that you would stop with the book because of it (and not with the previous books), the character depth here is miles ahead of NoK and RotCG in my opinion. Most of the characters here actually have an identity, in the earlier two books most of the character difference didn't go far beyond boy or girl, badass or not badass. It really comes of like your firing the hyperbole machine on overdrive.

This post has been edited by Asharak: 24 December 2012 - 10:18 AM

[champ]

Aye, I've held off on buying this book so far, hoping to see some really positive Malazan board feedback to encourage me... geee... thats going well!

[Abyss]

champ, on 24 December 2012 - 01:09 PM, said:

Aye, I've held off on buying this book so far, hoping to see some really positive Malazan board feedback to encourage me... geee... thats going well!

I liked it and it's clear elsethread that i'm not alone in that. It's easy enuf to follow the naysayers but ffs, this is ICE writing a Malazan book... you owe it to yourself to make up your own mind.

[T'renn]

Concerning the characters, I agree better work has been done..... but still it is enjoyable.
@ Pat, I too have read up till around page 400 now.
Yes, of course it is more descriptive and less dialogue driven. But these novels, to me, are the fleshing out of the Malaz universe. They have been partly gamed out by both authors and certainly discussed. In this, to me, lies the worth of these, the Novels of the Malazan Empire. And what if? If ICE is the Moon to SE's sun, then what? I enjoy it thoroughly, for it is a fraction of the most diverse and complicated fantasy verse I have read up to date. I dare say it is indeed not ICE's best book, but the expectations of the book, have not let ME down.

[tiam]

I wouldnt say this book is ices best. I think sw is the best written work hes done and rotcg was the best in terms of interesting plot and events. I finished bab a while ago then finished off the rest of my fod reread and the i really noticed the writing wasnt as good as eriksons, which might bother some people. I find ices writing quite refreshingly descriptive to se's style so different strokes. Bab is a bit clunky in places but for the most part well written. The problem i have is the actual plot which makes this the only malazan book i am struggling to pick up for a reread. Even ost which i really disliked got ann immediate reread. Its just very meandering in places and doesnt resolve with enough of a set up for me.

Im posting this on my phone so excuse terrible grammar etc. Id still say read it as its worth a read but have lower expectations of it.

[Werthead]

I just finished it and think it's easily ICE's best book to date. The jungle setting is handled really well, the finale is suitably epic (and nicely subverted when you realise it's a bit of a sideshow compared to what's going on in Kolanse, but still vitally important to the characters) and Saeng is a far more interesting protagonist than Kyle. It's also cool to see the flipside of a scene from Stonewielder. My only regret was the rather cheesily-signposted ending:

Spoiler

Everyone's off to Assail and agree to it readily, despite fifteen previous MALAZAN books telling us it's the most dangerous place in the universe.

[D'rek]

I'm a little past the half-way mark and still very much enjoying it. It does seem like many of the plot-lines have been stuck in perpetual motion a bit

Spoiler

especially Shimmer's - every time it goes back to her between pages 100 and 300 I've been like "the boat STILL isn't at the city?!"

but ICE has been doing a really good job of making even that interesting - even if so-and-so plot-line only advances a little bit closer to destination X he puts a lot of revelation about the world and/or characters in to make it interesting.

Anyone else catch a line or two about the Stormriders and how alien they are - I think ICE tossed that in just to say something like "Yeah, I heard some of you complaining about not learning more about the Stormriders in SW, but too bad because the in-world characters have no idea either!"