[Tattersail_]

Aptorius, on 18 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

It's when he summons Titania in the bird watchers park.

She asks him what his opinion are of the people who come there, gay men who meet in the groves to have sex.

Why does she even care? Shouldn't things like human sexual reproduction and mating rituals be unimportant to her? Maybe she's a young queen but I still found it to be a clumsy scene.

He has said many times throughout the series that Faeries love "Sporting" they are extremely fascinated by sex. As that scene took place where it did, it would have looked a little odd if it wasn't mentioned, no? Truth be told I wasn't bothered by the scene all that much.

[worry]

While I see what Cause is saying about the plausible intent of that scene, I still gotta agree with Apt on how it was written. It was specifically a moral question Titania was bringing up, so Harry's hetero-squeamishness might be part of it but it doesn't explain his (at best) equivocating on the moral question, which like I said, amounted to "Yah it might be morally wrong, but that's none of my business." You've already lost me at the "it might be..." even if you add the caveat that it doesn't affect how you treat people. Big whoop.

I also agree it was just one sour note in an otherwise excellent book.

[Use Of Weapons]

Does his attitude in this scene square (in anyone's mind) with his outrageously lisping performance as Thomas's boyfriend in (IIRC) White Night?

[Pig Iron]

Setup for a Dresden-Marcone romance arc?

[Morgoth]

He's obviously the prophecised mortal lover of Sanata Clause.

[Zanth13]

The advice Harry gave to men (and women) on the levels of conversation between the two genders was also jarring to me. Almost seem like he put that in there for his wife to read... (not sure if he has a wife).

no biggie though, the book was outstanding and a lot of fun.

I was disappointed a little at first that the outer gates where in fact real gates...but the idea has been growing on me... the winter protection angle is intriguing...


Anyone else notice the similarities between the Demonreach island and an Azath house? (I must confess I have not made it to Dust of Dreams yet so don't shoot me if something has come out about the Azath houses I dont know about. )

I mean it's almost exactly the same thing no?

Cat Sith has to return... on top of not getting a proper death scene I am sure fan feed back to Butcher will ensure it.
I have to be honest again, When he popped up in the story I was not thinking about a Scottish mythological creature, but a certain robot cat from Final Fantasy VII.

@ Abyss, Mac is actually Duncan MacLeod of the clan MacLeod born in 1592 in the highlands of Scotland... and he can not die. he must have taken Joe Dawsons bar... or something.

on a more serious note... he has to have been something major... all the major players (including an outsider) knew who/what he was/is.
I have seen the outsider connection flying around and I honestly don't think he is or was one of them... That doesn't seem to fit in my head, I just don't see the powers that be letting him live if he was an Outsider. I don't think he is a wizard either... the healing thing he pulled doesn't jive... also Mab showed some "care?" towards him...

how about this for a crazy theory... he is Mab's ex and in fact the father of Maeve and Sarrisa. Some type of Fairie lord/king/champion who got sick of fighting Outsiders as well as court politics.

Also I guess it has to be Nemesis who tricked Harry into killing himself (the creature that took his free will away and the reason why Uriel intervened in Ghost Story)

Wifes looking over my shoulder and she is not caught up on Dresden so Have to go to avoid spoilers.

This post has been edited by Zanth13: 28 December 2012 - 07:09 AM

[Abyss]

Zanth13, on 28 December 2012 - 07:07 AM, said:

...I was disappointed a little at first that the outer gates where in fact real gates...but the idea has been growing on me... the winter protection angle is intriguing...

I had a similar initial reaction, but in the vein of things Fae, it actually makes sense that they be literal 'gates', tho there may be an element of 'this is how your mortal brain interprets what you're seeing' to it.

Quote

Anyone else notice the similarities between the Demonreach island and an Azath house? (I must confess I have not made it to Dust of Dreams yet so don't shoot me if something has come out about the Azath houses I dont know about. )

I mean it's almost exactly the same thing no?

Only in the sense of really powerful bad things being imprisoned. All the finer details are pretty different imnsho.

Quote

Cat Sith has to return... on top of not getting a proper death scene I am sure fan feed back to Butcher will ensure it.
...

I agree with you, and i could be wrong, but i suspect that between the 'look behind you' note, Cat's hesitation in finishing Harry and the fact that the 'body' went out a window practically demands
a return, and my pet theory is that he 'faked' the personality wipe and is now Mab's double-agent inside Nemisis.

...that last bit is one of those sentences that only a fantasy fan could write and love...

Quote

...Mac... he has to have been something major... all the major players (including an outsider) knew who/what he was/is.
I have seen the outsider connection flying around and I honestly don't think he is or was one of them... That doesn't seem to fit in my head, I just don't see the powers that be letting him live if he was an Outsider. I don't think he is a wizard either... the healing thing he pulled doesn't jive... also Mab showed some "care?" towards him...

ex-Gatekeeper maybe, tho i still think the 'i'm out' line refs a closer connection to the outsiders.

Quote

... I guess it has to be Nemesis who tricked Harry into killing himself (the creature that took his free will away and the reason why Uriel intervened in Ghost Story)

It may have been one of N's agents, but i still wonder if that's not rooted firmly in the Heaven vs Hell storyline and not Nemesis.

[amphibian]

What if Nemesis is Lucifer?

[Use Of Weapons]

amphibian, on 02 January 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

What if Nemesis is Lucifer?

OooooooOOOOOOOooooooOOOOOOOooooooo000ooo!

[Illuyankas]

What if Nemesis... is Lucifer's cousin's uncle's ex-wife's brother's roommate!?

[worry]

I don't think Nemesis is the head Outsider, just a very high up entity....so I wouldn't peg him as Lucifer even if there's some relationship between the two groups. Also I'm not sure of the Denarians relationship to Lucifer and any other Fallen who are out there. Are they loyal to him? Are they a pocket group of double rebels?

[Abyss]

I don't think so... Nic was pretty pissed at Horny Nathaniel for a Black Council related play, which suggests that, at least in part, 'Hell' and the Denarians are in opposition to Nemesis.

[Zanth13]

Well it looks like the Outsiders want to wipe out existence, which isn't exactly high on many people's to do list, even the baddies Harry has had to fight over the years.

Ok been snooping around and online and many people believe Rashid is the first human Gatekeeper and that he has been doing it for a long long Long time. So the theory that Mac is an ex gatekeeper still can hold some water but something more interesting came up.

Odin, and his eye, and it being the same materiel as Rashid's. Makes since why he would stare Harry down at Macs to try and possibly see any infection.

So does this mean Odin is a former gatekeeper? Or perhaps he defended the Gate before winter took up its current employment? Some how tying Odins character with the Norse end of time legends/ apocalyptic end battle.

And the Mac = some sort of gatekeeper makes sense seeing how the outsider called him watcher. Though watcher as mentioned could also be an angel.

Another more outlandish observation tying Mac as an angel is Uriel calling Mouse little brother and then Mac serving mouse first at some point in the bar, also something with how how mouse acted. Pretty circumstantial IMO.

[Abyss]

Zanth13, on 03 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

...So does this mean Odin is a former gatekeeper? Or perhaps he defended the Gate before winter took up its current employment? Some how tying Odins character with the Norse end of time legends/ apocalyptic end battle. ...

There is a certain appeal to the notion that before the Winter Fae, it was the Norse pantheon guarding the Gates.

[Obdigore]

Abyss, on 03 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Zanth13, on 03 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

...So does this mean Odin is a former gatekeeper? Or perhaps he defended the Gate before winter took up its current employment? Some how tying Odins character with the Norse end of time legends/ apocalyptic end battle. ...

There is a certain appeal to the notion that before the Winter Fae, it was the Norse pantheon guarding the Gates.

With their dead Norse soldiers with only the cream picked out by the Valkyries and brought to the gate? I'm kind of fuzzy on Norse mythology, but that seems right to me.

[Abyss]

Obdigore, on 03 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Zanth13, on 03 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

...So does this mean Odin is a former gatekeeper? Or perhaps he defended the Gate before winter took up its current employment? Some how tying Odins character with the Norse end of time legends/ apocalyptic end battle. ...

There is a certain appeal to the notion that before the Winter Fae, it was the Norse pantheon guarding the Gates.

With their dead Norse soldiers with only the cream picked out by the Valkyries and brought to the gate? I'm kind of fuzzy on Norse mythology, but that seems right to me.

It would be a logical run from the Norse mythos einherjar and Ragnarok concepts if the Valkyries used to collect dead soldiers whose souls went to defend the gates against the end of the world.

As a related aside, in at least one mythos, Odin is the leader of the Wild Hunt.

[Zanth13]

Abyss, on 03 January 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Obdigore, on 03 January 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Abyss, on 03 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Zanth13, on 03 January 2013 - 04:25 PM, said:

...So does this mean Odin is a former gatekeeper? Or perhaps he defended the Gate before winter took up its current employment? Some how tying Odins character with the Norse end of time legends/ apocalyptic end battle. ...

There is a certain appeal to the notion that before the Winter Fae, it was the Norse pantheon guarding the Gates.

With their dead Norse soldiers with only the cream picked out by the Valkyries and brought to the gate? I'm kind of fuzzy on Norse mythology, but that seems right to me.

It would be a logical run from the Norse mythos einherjar and Ragnarok concepts if the Valkyries used to collect dead soldiers whose souls went to defend the gates against the end of the world.

As a related aside, in at least one mythos, Odin is the leader of the Wild Hunt.

Yeah I think I read somewhere that Odin was sometimes the equivalent of the Erlking, makes the whole hunt/Kringle/Erlking/Odin spin interesting.

Adds more weight to the changing of mantles/mask that Kringle/Odin was talking about. Maybe the task of guarding the gate itself is a mantle, that Odin gave up at some point, also maybe Rashids position did not always have to be a wizard, and is in fact a mantle of some sort that ties back to Mac.

Crazy theory: Odin has the best resume out all supernatural bosses, Defender of the gates (Mabs predecessor), leader of the hunt (Erlkings predecessor), and whatever mantles you want to give him for his Odin mythos and Kringle mask. How many mantles has he collected.

[Traveller]

Wow, that really was one of the good 'uns, and a return to the form/style of the earlier books.

I thought it was a little bit weird that everybody in Harrys circle got back on board quite so quickly after the events in Changes and Ghost Story, and all went motoring off to the Island again without a blink after what happened the last time they did that, but generally it all worked out really well, including stuff from the ealier stories without retreading old ground. I'm a bit suspicious about linking all his previous cases/enemies into one Big B0ad; hopefully it won't turn out quite like that.

The ending with Molly was a good thing imo, as the reason that the series is so good is partly due to the fact that each book moves on, and progresses - it doesn't all go back to the start, like episodes of unimaginitive tv shows that are just trying to create volume over quality. Harry himself is different in nearly every book, with new skills, family members, revealed history etc, and Molly now being part of Winter opens up a whole load of interesting possibilities.

Lots more questions after reading it, but that's part of the course!