[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Oh gosh yes, me too!

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 09 December 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Apparently the excuses are coming out already on "what went wrong".

https://www.news.com...936fa72351191b3

Not exclusively with the new movie, but the trilogy as a whole and also Solo (which I didn't mind, but didn't love. Donald Glover being the best part).
Especially noteworthy when contrasted with The Mandalorian.

Rogue One rocked though, and was the closest full-length movie to the best parts of the OT IMHO.

Yeah, it's funny how there are a bunch of people out there who have been canary-singing this for a scatter of years now since TFA and Disney and the media (the ones they own [Gizmodo/io9), and the ones they don't who don't want to "lose access" to the juggernaut studio) have refuted, denied, and spun every single instance of the idea that things went wrong...I knew that it would finally come out around and beyond IX....but man, between then and now it's been like being the worst pariah to so many people who refused to believe that things went wrong.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 09 December 2019 - 01:05 PM, said:

To be honest, everything else is incidental to "no idea what the over-arcing story was going to be".

That's 95% of the reason it hasn't worked, in comparison to something carefully crafted like the MCU (to use the example given in the article).

This to the NTH degree. Look absolutely no further than this as the reason. There was NO PLAN. That was beyond stupid.

And to all the people who say and said "What? The original, trilogy wasn't planned either!" as some sort of genius excuse...fuck no...just because lightning struck once and the OT worked out as well as it is, considering the retconning and writing on the fly that had to go on within it...does NOT mean anyone should ever go "Let's just throw shit at the wall again and see what sticks...and not only that, let's let multiple people throw multiple different substances to the wall too!"...The notion that drives me the most batty about this is that TFA and TLJ were being written at the same time by people who were not in synch and didn't talk to one another...I mean, how can you have two different authors write chapters 1 and 2 and not talk....it's mental. But this basically resulted in overlap of "First Movie" syndrome. Both JJ (TFA) and RJ (TLJ) act like the first act of a three act play...which is quite utterly mental.

Tiste Simeon, on 09 December 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

Don't care, still going to watch it ʅ(ツ)ʃ

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 09 December 2019 - 01:14 PM, said:

Oh gosh yes, me too!

Yep. Got my tickets for VIP on the 20th with my wife. I maintain it's likely gonna be a messy trainwreck, but knowing that MANDO is waiting in the wings and future Obi-Wan series...sets my mind at ease and I can go into this with a clear mind knowing it's most likely not going to be great. Should have some smoking action scenes though, JJ is pretty good at those.

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 09 December 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

And to all the people who say and said "What? The original, trilogy wasn't planned either!" as some sort of genius excuse...fuck no...just because lightning struck once and the OT worked out as well as it is, considering the retconning and writing on the fly that had to go on within it...does NOT mean anyone should ever go "Let's just throw shit at the wall again and see what sticks...and not only that, let's let multiple people throw multiple different substances to the wall too!"...The notion that drives me the most batty about this is that TFA and TLJ were being written at the same time by people who were not in synch and didn't talk to one another...I mean, how can you have two different authors write chapters 1 and 2 and not talk....it's mental. But this basically resulted in overlap of "First Movie" syndrome. Both JJ (TFA) and RJ (TLJ) act like the first act of a three act play...which is quite utterly mental.

That and it's simply a lot easier to keep things consistent across 3 movies and 6 years than a massive decades-spanning franchise. If there had been books in Return of the Jedi, it would've just been a "oh, there are books in this fictional universe" and that's it. When books show up in movie #8 after 30 years and a bajillion side works of no books and the original creator having said decades ago there would never be books it can't be perceived as just adding a new characteristic to the series like if it had happened near the start. Hodge podge of ideas is fine early on, but as the franchise continues you need to put more and more work in to keep it from deviating away from what it previously was.

[QuickTidal]

D, on 09 December 2019 - 03:36 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 09 December 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

And to all the people who say and said "What? The original, trilogy wasn't planned either!" as some sort of genius excuse...fuck no...just because lightning struck once and the OT worked out as well as it is, considering the retconning and writing on the fly that had to go on within it...does NOT mean anyone should ever go "Let's just throw shit at the wall again and see what sticks...and not only that, let's let multiple people throw multiple different substances to the wall too!"...The notion that drives me the most batty about this is that TFA and TLJ were being written at the same time by people who were not in synch and didn't talk to one another...I mean, how can you have two different authors write chapters 1 and 2 and not talk....it's mental. But this basically resulted in overlap of "First Movie" syndrome. Both JJ (TFA) and RJ (TLJ) act like the first act of a three act play...which is quite utterly mental.

That and it's simply a lot easier to keep things consistent across 3 movies and 6 years than a massive decades-spanning franchise. If there had been books in Return of the Jedi, it would've just been a "oh, there are books in this fictional universe" and that's it. When books show up in movie #8 after 30 years and a bajillion side works of no books and the original creator having said decades ago there would never be books it can't be perceived as just adding a new characteristic to the series like if it had happened near the start. Hodge podge of ideas is fine early on, but as the franchise continues you need to put more and more work in to keep it from deviating away from what it previously was.

Absolutely. This also goes for Flashbacks. Lucas disallowed flashbacks because he said something like "It's the future, you should not have too use flashbacks in a story that takes place in the future", and I would argue that depending on flashbacks too (the one that is in TFA and the many that are in TLJ....and I hear there are even more in TROS) to flesh out your story's "status quo" beats....is one of the ST worst offences...we should have SEEN Ben Solo's fall from grace, and Luke's reaction, and Leia and Han's relationship dissolve (if that was what they wanted to do), and any number of other world-building story beats (the New Republic ect.)....not be thrown a bone or two of flashbacks to explain how it happened years ago or whatever....it's all completely unearned as a result. Like Thanos or Killmonger, as a villain we should FEEL Ben's turn to Kylo as a viable reason to turn, something he deeply believes in and as such is evil, but he believes himself wholly right in doing...and a recent interview with Driver seems to suggest that this is how he's been told to act Kylo Ren, as someone who believes he's in the right...the problem is that WE don't see any of that. We just see the petulant childish evil asshole....we have no reason why he would have turned from ANYTHING in his old life.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 09 December 2019 - 03:53 PM

[Abyss]

Tsundoku, on 09 December 2019 - 11:58 AM, said:

Apparently the excuses are coming out already on "what went wrong".

https://www.news.com...936fa72351191b3

...

The original WSJ article is paywalled but that aus.news clickbait is pretty sketchy on drawing conclusions from reading someone else's work.
Donald Glover's hair is not the reason SOLO didn't make milzillions of dollars, even if Billy Dee Williams thinks so.

But RISE OF SKYWALKER BOMBS is as good a headline as RISE OF SKYWALKER HAD HUUUUGE OPENING WEEKEND so can't blame the media for laying the groundwork either way.

[Traveller]

Well, I bought my ticket today.

10am on the 19th... and then realised the kids break up the day before! So my plan of dumping them at school and going for a nice quiet first viewing have been somewhat disrupted - I just booked them tickets right next to me, so they're coming too now. They've seen both previous ones so it won't be wasted, hopefully they'll enjoy it and let me watch without too much commentary!

[Traveller]

BfuckinK, on 14 December 2019 - 03:09 AM, said:

Going to post this in the SW threads here for traffic reasons. If any of y’all besides QT are gamers then do yourself a favor and go get Jedi Fallen Order and enfuckingjoy! I’ve been utterly in love with this game for about a month now and it has been worth every penny I paid! I mean just incredible. I think it may top KOTOR for me in the end though it’s been since that was new and my memory is getting a bit hazy on it. Maybe replay time! I’m not gonna get into specifics on it just wanted to get the word in these threads about it for those that don’t go into the game’s forum.

I hope some of y’all try it and have my same lvl of enjoyment on it.

Good to hear. I'll def pick it up if I don't get it for christmas.

[Traveller]

Well, first screening done.

I may have to avoid internet until thursday - someone, somewhere, will post something I don't want to see.

[QuickTidal]

A someone who vehemently hated the last movie (as you all well know), I have been reading every leak I could get my hands on before I see it.

You can't be disappointed if you know the whole plot ahead of time. LOL

[Abyss]

Initial reaction seems to be divided between 'YAY!' and 'meh', favoring positive slightly, not much true hate.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 17 December 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

Initial reaction seems to be divided between 'YAY!' and 'meh', favoring positive slightly, not much true hate.

Oh man you're looking in the wrong places, the Leaks reddit is utterly MELTING down from what I can see. Saltierthancrait, the reddit sub dedicated to not liking the Sequels (mostly TLJ though) numbers have swelled 3k overnight...The positive reactions seem to be floating to the top, but a LOT of pissed off people are having their say too. A bunch of critics seem to hate it (ones who liked TFA and like TLJ too)....and a main talking point seems to be that "JJ is disparaging/being rude to RJ" because a number of TROS plot points directly rebut/refute things in RJ's film.

This is what happens when you have two creators working on different chapters of a trilogy who are trying to pull it in different directions.

Things from the leaks/movie that various groups hate (MAJOR spoilers...seriously, MAJOR; the screening proved a tonne of leaks true so these are in the movie. DO NOT READ THESE IF YOU WANT TO GO IN FRESH. DO NOT QUOTE THE POST AS YOU WILL SEE THE SPOILERS. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED)

Spoiler

Reylo's are pissed because they GOT a brief "Bendemption" AND a kiss between Ben and Rey, but he does in fact die right after. So they all feel cheated out of the relationship they've been shipping for 2 years+.

PT fans are pissed because Anakin is not in it except for a snippet of Hayden's voice in the "force voices" scene with a bunch of overlapping dead Jedi encouragement voices and that's it (note: This scene was reportedly scripted as a Force Ghost "On Your Left" sequence originally with the actors present on set....but China does not like ghosts in movies....so Disney buckled in the hopes of this flick FINALLY breaking through to the Chinese audience and it became this "many voices overlapping" nonsense. They are also pissed becuase this removes the purpose of Anakin. HE was NOT the Chosen One. He did NOT defeat Palpatine/the Sith. Rey does. Apparently.

OT fans are pissed because Luke literally has one scene other than his "young man flashback training with Leia"....and its of a distant smiling force ghost. That's. It. "See you around kid" is apparently never explored, nor is Luke much as a useful Force Ghost.

And finally, Rey is a Palpatine. She's his granddaughter. Which is not suitably explained. This also means that the last Skywalker is now dead, and the Emperor's granddaughter takes the name Skywalker...even though she's not one. To me this reads as the big bad villain...won. His bloodline continues, while the heroes of the PT and especially OT are all footnotes to Rey Bloody Palpatine....who takes the Skywalker name for whatever reason....but for all intents and purposes, she's the granddaughter of the villain.

At least she gets a sweet double bladed yellow lightsaber? I dunno. Whatever. This sounds pretty rough. Also, was this an attempt to make Rey a NuCanon Bastilla Shan and Kylo a Revan stand-in? It didn't work.

I will chime in once I've seen it on Friday with my real thoughts as the execution of the film will be the most important factor now...

And please also note that I WANT very much to love this movie....I want that. I don't want it to fail.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 17 December 2019 - 05:53 PM

[Abyss]

All i really want is seven minutes of Chewbacca using C3P0's severed head as a flail to annihilate several platoons of First Order troops.
This should not be a problem to deliver.







...shut up and leave me my illusions.

[Traveller]

I can't imagine even going to a subreddit that is 'dedicated to not liking the sequels.' Of course they'll be in meltdown, it's like early Christmas as they've got new material to whine about for the next foreseeable future.

I'm not looking at anything now. I'm taking my kids to see it on Thursday morning, and they're looking forward to it - it will be the first one we've all seen at the same time on release.

It will sure beat sitting in front of a computer raging and fuming about the injustice of it all and which director was snubbing who and how it all went down.

And why even post spoilers here, who is going to wait this long to see a movie and then literally ruin it for themselves two days before release?

This post has been edited by Traveller: 17 December 2019 - 08:46 PM

[Primateus]

QuickTidal, on 17 December 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:

Abyss, on 17 December 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

Initial reaction seems to be divided between 'YAY!' and 'meh', favoring positive slightly, not much true hate.

Oh man you're looking in the wrong places, the Leaks reddit is utterly MELTING down from what I can see. Saltierthancrait, the reddit sub dedicated to not liking the Sequels (mostly TLJ though) numbers have swelled 3k overnight...The positive reactions seem to be floating to the top, but a LOT of pissed off people are having their say too. A bunch of critics seem to hate it (ones who liked TFA and like TLJ too)....and a main talking point seems to be that "JJ is disparaging/being rude to RJ" because a number of TROS plot points directly rebut/refute things in RJ's film.

Haven't seen it yet, going Friday. It might well suck, I might well like it. But are you, Quicktidal, 100% sure that you're not just looking for something to dislike? I mean, you have stated quite recently that you "vehemently" hated the previous one.

[Slow Ben]

Abyss, on 17 December 2019 - 08:36 PM, said:

All i really want is seven minutes of Chewbacca using C3P0's severed head as a flail to annihilate several platoons of First Order troops.
This should not be a problem to deliver.



!


...shut up and leave me my illusions.

See! Good Star Wars movies write themfuckingselves!

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 17 December 2019 - 09:37 PM

[Traveller]

Primateus, on 17 December 2019 - 09:04 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 17 December 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:

Abyss, on 17 December 2019 - 05:27 PM, said:

Initial reaction seems to be divided between 'YAY!' and 'meh', favoring positive slightly, not much true hate.

Oh man you're looking in the wrong places, the Leaks reddit is utterly MELTING down from what I can see. Saltierthancrait, the reddit sub dedicated to not liking the Sequels (mostly TLJ though) numbers have swelled 3k overnight...The positive reactions seem to be floating to the top, but a LOT of pissed off people are having their say too. A bunch of critics seem to hate it (ones who liked TFA and like TLJ too)....and a main talking point seems to be that "JJ is disparaging/being rude to RJ" because a number of TROS plot points directly rebut/refute things in RJ's film.

Haven't seen it yet, going Friday. It might well suck, I might well like it. But are you, Quicktidal, 100% sure that you're not just looking for something to dislike? I mean, you have stated quite recently that you "vehemently" hated the previous one.

I can't personally see why, if you hated the last movie, you would either: want to see the next one; read all leaks and spoilers for the next one before seeing it; dissect every move and perceived missteps made throughout the production of the three new movies.

I cannot see how in the world you are then going to get any enjoyment out of the movie; unless the reason for going is to take notes throughout of all the bits you don't like, in order to criticize them and use it as evidence to justify your hatred for the last one as soon as you get out.

Just don't go? Watch something you like instead.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 17 December 2019 - 10:15 PM

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 17 December 2019 - 08:43 PM, said:

I can't imagine even going to a subreddit that is 'dedicated to not liking the sequels.' Of course they'll be in meltdown, it's like early Christmas as they've got new material to whine about for the next foreseeable future.

And why even post spoilers here, who is going to wait this long to see a movie and then literally ruin it for themselves two days before release?

The LEAKS subreddit is the one in meltdown, and they have been genuinely enjoying the sequels for the most part. Saltierthancrait is not in meltdown, they are just watching the meltdown of formerly positive subreddits from the same schaudenfraude reasons that they all said ppl who don’t like them before didn’t like them for...expectations.

And I posted the, because the movie is out in a few days and we can discuss them then. Shrug. Why attack me?

Primateus, on 17 December 2019 - 09:04 PM, said:

But are you, Quicktidal, 100% sure that you're not just looking for something to dislike? I mean, you have stated quite recently that you "vehemently" hated the previous one.

Before I read the leaks I was 100% looking fwd to this being at least entertaining....jus because I hated what RJ did in TLJ doesn’t mean I’ll hate TROS.

But I’m not going to pussyfoot around the stuff from TROS that I don’t like the sound of either.

Traveller, on 17 December 2019 - 10:14 PM, said:

I can't personally see why, if you hated the last movie, you would either: want to see the next one; read all leaks and spoilers for the next one before seeing it; dissect every move and perceived missteps made throughout the production of the three new movies.

I cannot see how in the world you are then going to get any enjoyment out of the movie; unless the reason for going is to take notes throughout of all the bits you don't like, in order to criticize them and use it as evidence to justify your hatred for the last one as soon as you get out.

Just don't go? Watch something you like instead.

Well a few things.

1. I liked TFA, and I generally like Abrams films. I even like Into Darkness...
2. The execution of even the bad plot points I’ve read about might still quite entertain me, lore choices aside.
3. Im not going to dismiss a movie I’ve not seen out of hands based around plot leaks I’ve read...
4. Knowing what I’m getting into going in just serves to make sure I’m not walking in to get blindsided again like TLJ. I’m fine with that.
5. I love like 8 movies out of 10, 2 of 3 tv shows, and only hate ONE piece of Star Wars media...so I mean if I’ll go finish this out and not feel bad about it and I’m not sure why I can’t dislike one piece of media, talk about that, and still critique what comes out after?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 December 2019 - 12:20 AM

[Gothos]

TFA wasn't that bad, true enough - even if some of the bullshit already started there, but TLJ put the trilogy into FUBAR territory, and I don't believe JJ Abrams is a man capable of salvaging it. Don't think anyone could.

Thankfully stuff like The Mandalorian and Rogue One put some faith that maybe Disney will do something good with the franchise, but this trilogy is at most a mess they can kind of hope to kind of maybe not end in disaster. For their benefit, Star Wars is enough of a franchise name that people will continue to go see them long after they're worse than Twilight.

[Tsundoku]

Initial reactions collected by Rotten Tomatoes. No real spoilers, just tweets about feelings and stuff. A couple of new characters named and vague refs about a big finish for much loved chacters blah blah blah

https://editorial.ro...nd-to-the-saga/

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 18 December 2019 - 07:59 AM

[Morgoth]

The man who should have been given the trilogy is Denis Villeneuve.