[QuickTidal]

Did you read the post I linked/pasted about the problems with sexism and racism entrenched in It?

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Not to mention the in-universe treatment of sentient droids as servants and slaves — no better than simple cleaning robots!

[worry]

Haven't read it yet but I'll give it a whirl later.

[QuickTidal]

It's interesting to note that over at TheForce.net, there is a master thread for dissenters of the film called The Sanctuary...which had to be created because the people who liked the film will drill you into the ground if you DARE to question its brilliance...the Sanctuary is heavily modded so that no defenders of the film can come in a'trolin....I've seen 4 people banned on it in the last few days for trying. So it's a nice balm to read others with my views on the film, and they are allowed to discuss and dissect it at will, which is nice. The thread is almost 500 pages long, and it's a diverse group of dissenters, men and women a like (I think there actually might be more women posting in it than men), and even a few Moderators who hate the film.

Anyways, if anyone is curious what the rest of the real dissent (AKA not complaining about SJW, or girls and POC in star wars, or silly things like being upset at Leia's force float pull) looks like en masse, pop into the last ten pages or so of the thread and you'll get an idea. They also post every dissenting thing that Mark Hamill has said about the film (he's being diplomatic, but it's hard to hide his distaste for it)...as it feels good to know that one of the main stars dislikes it too (rumour has it Daisy and John are also not fans of it....Daisy was asked in a recent interview "Do you think the Last Jedi is entertaining....she pauses...and then just says "Sure", which ain't exactly a ringing endorsement).

It's also interesting to get perspective on changes Rian made to what TFA presented that he disguised to switch up. Like the Jedi Academy burning scene. TFA artwork and the actual scene shows it to be Luke returning to the Academy with R2 from somewhere, to find it burning in the distance...robes clean. Rian's version of the scene fiddles that shot into the flashback of Luke and Kylo in a tent (why would they be sleeping in tents when the Academy was...you know...right there) and Kylo bringing it all down, and then the shot of Luke and R2 form TFA, but Rian has dirtied up his robes to show that it all fell in on him. On the surface, you'd never notice the differences or the implications of them....but in hindsight and viewing, it's SUPER clear that Rian forced that shot into his own version of events, and that JJ had always planned for the destruction of the Academy to happen while Master Luke was away (which frankly makes more sense) and to have him come upon it burning. It's little things like that which truly piss me off. JJ's intentions, whatever they were, should have been considered, because now the two scenes operate on a different wavelength which can be easily picked out.

Oh, for a world in which the Zahn trilogy was shot in the 90's when the actors were still of age.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 28 March 2018 - 02:21 PM

[Abyss]

 QuickTidal, on 28 March 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

...
Oh, for a world in which the Zahn trilogy was shot in the 90's when the actors were still of age.

The Zahn trilo has its own share of problems that caused fans to lose their minds.

[QuickTidal]

 Abyss, on 28 March 2018 - 02:46 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 28 March 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

...
Oh, for a world in which the Zahn trilogy was shot in the 90's when the actors were still of age.

The Zahn trilo has its own share of problems that caused fans to lose their minds.

Minor. Very minor. After re-reading it in comic form a few months back, I'm even more convinced that with a few minor (post-prequels) changes and tweaks to characters and plot points, it's the PERFECT continuation of the OT, and Mara Jade is the most missed from the new series.

Emperor's hand, seeking revenge is such a lush plot line in a post-Emperor galaxy. Proved further out by how much everyone loved Dooku's "hand" Asajj Ventress in TCW.

[Traveller]

Wish we had a sanctuary here.

I get why people didn't like it. The relentless attempts to persuade others that they shouldn't either is...baffling.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 28 March 2018 - 10:58 PM

[QuickTidal]

 Traveller, on 28 March 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

Wish we had a sanctuary here.

I get why people didn't like it. The relentless attempts to persuade others that they shouldn't either is...baffling.

You imagine I’m trying to persuade? I’m sharing my opinions just like everyone else.

This is what I don’t get. If you like the movie, you can talk about it till your hearts content...but if you don’t, you aren’t allowed to talk about why apparently because people feel put upon?

Can we only discuss the film positively? That seems counterproductive.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 29 March 2018 - 01:09 AM

[QuickTidal]

 Bachelorluver, on 28 March 2018 - 11:43 PM, said:

Lmao.

Just had a Carrie bit and she was asked what she thought of Rian and how it was to work with him. I will tag her response but if you choose not to click just know that it was typical Carrie gold.

Spoiler

”He’s an asshole.”

She always always spoke her mind. She had choice words for George back in the day too as I recall.

[Silencer]

 Traveller, on 28 March 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

Wish we had a sanctuary here.

I get why people didn't like it. The relentless attempts to persuade others that they shouldn't either is...baffling.

Seconded. I should probably start banning people for disliking the film too.


... Seriously, QT, we had this discussion the other month in this very thread. Your behaviour (and that of a few others) is the *exact* same as the "shouting down" and "not being allowed to have a different opinion" approach as you're complaining about.

I'm not saying people out there aren't being assholes about it from the other side as well, but step back and listen to yourself and those around you on this one.

[worry]

It's because the anthology movies, cartoons, and live show all have their own threads, so we're stuck talking TLJ in this one for the next two years like ghosts who don't know they're dead.

[Traveller]

 QuickTidal, on 29 March 2018 - 12:24 AM, said:

You imagine I’m trying to persuade? I’m sharing my opinions just like everyone else.

This is what I don’t get. If you like the movie, you can talk about it till your hearts content...but if you don’t, you aren’t allowed to talk about why apparently because people feel put upon?

Can we only discuss the film positively? That seems counterproductive.

Sorry QT, not trying to get at you, and yes all discussion should be welcome.
But it doesnt feel like that you're just sharing opinions when every post about anything sw has to be 'countered' with why you think it's bad, with examples of why.

It feels like persuasion, and your hatred of Rian and the movie are so obvious in almost every sentence.

It's not a case of feeling 'put upon', it would just be good to able to discuss the movie plot, story and characters without constant reasons given as to why it shouldn't have been that way, that characters 'wouldn't have done that', or it would have been better if..etc.

They did do it, the movies been made. If you really don't like it, why want to discuss it anyway? Right now it just makes me think of a vegan sitting in a grillhouse, shouting at everyone eating steak.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 29 March 2018 - 07:20 AM

[QuickTidal]

 Silencer, on 29 March 2018 - 03:26 AM, said:

 Traveller, on 28 March 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

Wish we had a sanctuary here.

I get why people didn't like it. The relentless attempts to persuade others that they shouldn't either is...baffling.

Seconded. I should probably start banning people for disliking the film too.


... Seriously, QT, we had this discussion the other month in this very thread. Your behaviour (and that of a few others) is the *exact* same as the "shouting down" and "not being allowed to have a different opinion" approach as you're complaining about.

I'm not saying people out there aren't being assholes about it from the other side as well, but step back and listen to yourself and those around you on this one.

I don’t recall shouting anyone down.

This is what it felt like to be a fan of DCs movies for the past few years though, because everyone else (minus amph) hates those.

Anyways fine. I won’t talk about it anymore here. You can all discuss the merits of TLJ unhindered. Sorry.

[D'rek]

 Bachelorluver, on 29 March 2018 - 04:02 AM, said:

(unless they post stupid memes)

Wait, we're not allowed to post stupid memes???!!!

Spoiler

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 QuickTidal, on 29 March 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

 Silencer, on 29 March 2018 - 03:26 AM, said:

 Traveller, on 28 March 2018 - 10:42 PM, said:

Wish we had a sanctuary here.

I get why people didn't like it. The relentless attempts to persuade others that they shouldn't either is...baffling.

Seconded. I should probably start banning people for disliking the film too.


... Seriously, QT, we had this discussion the other month in this very thread. Your behaviour (and that of a few others) is the *exact* same as the "shouting down" and "not being allowed to have a different opinion" approach as you're complaining about.

I'm not saying people out there aren't being assholes about it from the other side as well, but step back and listen to yourself and those around you on this one.

I don’t recall shouting anyone down.

This is what it felt like to be a fan of DCs movies for the past few years though, because everyone else (minus amph) hates those.

Anyways fine. I won’t talk about it anymore here. You can all discuss the merits of TLJ unhindered. Sorry.

Just to add my support — I don't like tLJ and I think it's a terrible movie — just not for the same reasons as you.

For what it's worth, I don't feel like anybody is trying to shout anybody down or silence them. Everyone's just expressing their opinion (though I think Traveller may have been taking QT's comments too close to heart).

"If your belief is strong and the Force flows through you, then no adversary may move you." — Sith proverb.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 29 March 2018 - 01:54 PM

[paran falcon]

Just saw TLJ for the first time last night. Unfortunately, I disliked more than I liked, I think. I'm sure what I disliked are many of the things others have written plenty about. Moronic moves by characters (all but one, men) who did not SEEM like they were that moronic in TFA. (I have no knowledge of deeper character development from outside the movie sphere.) Phasma's reappearance was a waste. Benicio Del Toro was given next to nothing to do, which seems incredibly wasteful of his abilities. The one moment in Snoke's throne room, where I personally felt they may have found an interesting way to completely break free from the repetitive pattern(s) of SW, they pulled back from and went right back into said pattern.

Most of what I liked was visual effects related. The effects of today (it could be argued that this is true of some or all of the prequels too, I suppose) do true justice to the SW universe. I especially appreciate seeing the full effects of a lightsaber on display. Cutting through Anything and Everything it touches. A graphic example of one through a chest/torso, etc. The space battles look fantastic and I was very impressed by what (Vice?) Admiral Holdo's final move looked like. Really cool visual. I still like Rey's character. Could we maybe get some explanation or justification for her level of power for someone with literally 2 lessons in the force under her belt, though?

I haven't seen all the deleted scenes on the Bluray yet but I did see some of Rian Johnson talking about his vision of or understanding of the force and other SW lore, etc. I didn't feel like what I heard of his interpretation of things lines up with mine. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm certainly not as immersed as some are in the SW universe, but I've been more engaged than the casual fan, I would say. It may help to explain some of my dislikes, though. Idk. I wish I had liked it more.

[QuickTidal]

 paran falcon, on 29 March 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

I still like Rey's character. Could we maybe get some explanation or justification for her level of power for someone with literally 2 lessons in the force under her belt, though?

The Novelization by Jason Fry has stated that Rey "downloaded" her skills from Kylo Ren when he invaded her mind in TFA and she invaded his back and got his skills.

Take that as you will.

Personally (and at the risk of sounding like a negative nancy) I don't care much for it as a story point/explanation as it makes any Jedi (or Sith) training moot if you can just "download".

[paran falcon]

 QuickTidal, on 29 March 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

 paran falcon, on 29 March 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

I still like Rey's character. Could we maybe get some explanation or justification for her level of power for someone with literally 2 lessons in the force under her belt, though?

The Novelization by Jason Fry has stated that Rey "downloaded" her skills from Kylo Ren when he invaded her mind in TFA and she invaded his back and got his skills.

Take that as you will.

Personally (and at the risk of sounding like a negative nancy) I don't care much for it as a story point/explanation as it makes any Jedi (or Sith) training moot if you can just "download".

My daughter actually told me she had run across this as a "theory" out there or something, though I don't know that she knew it was from the book form of the movie. My reaction to that is rather similar to yours, I think. That and a few other things are starting to stretch what I had thought were rather agreed upon traits and or uses of the force.

[Traveller]

Interesting. I've watched tFA twice in a week, as my kids watched it once, and wanted to see it again today so I wasn't going to say no! Rey does seem genuinely surprised at her own abilities, first with the Falcon, then when she is able to free Finn using the door controls - she doesn't tell him it was her; and then she doesn't reveal anything to Han and Finn about how she escaped as she doesnt quite believe it herself.

When Kylo invades her mind, she does appear to block him; then push back (its a bit potter/snape) and in that moment she learned she could use her mind to push - which she immediately tests on the guard.

It doesn't seem like she 'learns its all from nowhere.' The saber fight at the end is just awesome, I love it, it has so much going on - Ren finally having a go at someone with a saber, albeit imexpertly wielded; then the shock on both their faces when Rey takes the saber from the snow... and then the moment she closes her eyes as she remembers what Maz said to her. And fights back. It's so great to watch.

I don't know if 'downloaded' is a good expression, and I haven't read the book, but Rey would have learned a great deal about her own limits from that first mind contact; defending, attacking, and the following mind trick attempt with the guard.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 29 March 2018 - 07:28 PM

[Aptorian]

Just finished The Last Jedi.

I've said this before but I am not particularly fond of the Star Wars franchise. It's like a strange nerd blind spot I have. I should love the mix of fantasy and sci-fi but I've just never been that excited about the story. It might just be the light and dark-trope that doesn't really do much for me.

Or maybe it's the frustratingly stupid anachronistic technology. Seriously, one of the US Aircraft Carriers sailing around in the Pacific has more effective firing power than a whole armada of Star Destroyers.

Anyway, I didn't hate the film. Didn't love it. It was just a good action film with a strangely thin plot. I feel like this story would have fit in as the last two episodes of season finale. It felt more like TV-writing, not really movie blockbuster material.

I think this new trilogy suffers from the same problem that the prequels had - Who is the big bad and why am I supposed to be afraid and/or care? What made the original films so captivating was the power of Darth Vader and the Emperor behind him.

Kylo Ren is a peculiar villain. I actually kind of dig him, his kind of fractured determination and conviction makes him funny to watch in an unsettling kind of way. But I think the actor is too old for the immaturity to be believable. Same with what's her name.

It would make more sense if this was a Young Adult like story of two teenagers love/hating each other as they come into their power, instead of being two 30 something millenials who are uncertain about their career choices (How old are they supposed to be anyway?).

Which leads back to the question of what the third film is about? They killed Snoke. They reversed the prequels. Instead of killing Darth Maul too early, now they killed the big bad in the shadows who was serving as the New Emperor.

Am I supposed to care about a final showdown between - I seriously can't remember her name - and Ren? Doesn't seem like the New Empire is falling apart any time soon, what with how much in shambles the resistance is.

When Snoke got cut in half I actually thought they were turning Ren babyface and I was actually reeling for a second, wondering what the hell a third film or second trilogy would be about. Then of course they just dropped all that.