[QuickTidal]

Maark, on 22 October 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Credence - as per KOTOR/2, Mandalore was a title taken on by whoever was leading the Mandalorians. Granted, KOTOR is now non-canon because Disney, but that's not to say that they've kept some of the ideas - as far as I remember, during IV/V/VI, Mandalorians were extinct, but it was a belief system as opposed to an actual race as far as I could see, it's not infeasible that they could come back.

If it does in fact though turn out to be Boba himself, brix will be shat by millions of nerds.

If I recall hearing correctly a lot of the KOTOR storyline was going to be salvaged, just not yet.

[QuickTidal]

New post-Endor info from the final (4th) issue of Greg Rucka's SHATTERED EMPIRE comic. Spoilers for the issue.

Spoiler

So in the end Kes Dameron asks his wife Shara to take the honorable discharge from the Alliance which they have both received due to the fact that they fought for so long and so hard. Shara is unsure, but is briefly whisked away by Luke Skywalker on a quick mission to Vetine. On the way (in Luke's stolen Imperial Lambda shuttle) he explains that she will be impersonating Imperial Security Bureau (ISB) commander Alecia Bek (the villain from Rucka's YA novel offering SMUGGLER'S RUN) and that Vetine is the location of a major ISB base, which houses (multiple levels down) a secret and well guarded lab that contains something Luke said the Emperor stole. The Bek impersonation allows them access to the lab, but as they arrive the man in charge reveals that he knew Bek, and the fact that she had a cybernetic implant for a left eye (which Shara does not) and the Stormtroopers open fire on them...realizing too late that Luke is a Jedi as he brandishes his lightsaber. Turns out that the thing the Emperor stole were two small trees which used to stand at the center of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant which Luke says "are strong in the force"...they take them away after defeating the guards. On the way home Luke speaks with Shara about how she's given much to the Alliance, but if she doesn't take the time to spend with her husband and her young son (Poe) and have a life, then the Rebellion will have not done its job. So Shara makes her decision. The last bit is that Luke was only aware of one tree stolen, not two, and gives the second to Shara (who plants it near her new home with her husband and infant son).

Whether being close to a storng-in-the-Force plant affects Poe's growth or not remains to be seen in TFA...is he Force sensitive?

[Maark Abbott]

QuickTidal, on 22 October 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Maark, on 22 October 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Credence - as per KOTOR/2, Mandalore was a title taken on by whoever was leading the Mandalorians. Granted, KOTOR is now non-canon because Disney, but that's not to say that they've kept some of the ideas - as far as I remember, during IV/V/VI, Mandalorians were extinct, but it was a belief system as opposed to an actual race as far as I could see, it's not infeasible that they could come back.

If it does in fact though turn out to be Boba himself, brix will be shat by millions of nerds.

If I recall hearing correctly a lot of the KOTOR storyline was going to be salvaged, just not yet.

Now wouldn't it be interesting if Ren was Revan? Being that Revan got stuck in the Old Sith Empire for however long, frozen in time... Let's also not forget Revan's mask.

[Primateus]

Maark, on 22 October 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 22 October 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Maark, on 22 October 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Credence - as per KOTOR/2, Mandalore was a title taken on by whoever was leading the Mandalorians. Granted, KOTOR is now non-canon because Disney, but that's not to say that they've kept some of the ideas - as far as I remember, during IV/V/VI, Mandalorians were extinct, but it was a belief system as opposed to an actual race as far as I could see, it's not infeasible that they could come back.

If it does in fact though turn out to be Boba himself, brix will be shat by millions of nerds.

If I recall hearing correctly a lot of the KOTOR storyline was going to be salvaged, just not yet.

Now wouldn't it be interesting if Ren was Revan? Being that Revan got stuck in the Old Sith Empire for however long, frozen in time... Let's also not forget Revan's mask.

It would, but it would also be bad, because that would mean the rebellion would be seriously fucked.

[Brujah]

All the theorizing about how the movie is going to play out is making me nervous.

If we keep posting every single idea about which direction the main characters are going to take, or how the story will arc, or for example "If Kylo is Luke," or "What if Luke goes Dark Side?" Then someone might actually end up nailing the big "surprise."

I am trying to keep my mind clear, using an old Jedi Mind Trick, so that the movie is a complete surprise for me. I'd hate for one of the major theories we've posted ends up being the "Big Surprise" in the story.


.....eh, what am I saying. It's Star Wars. A new TRUE Star Wars moving taking place after Return. It'll be amazing even if it isn't amazing. Somehow that shouldn't be able to make sense, yet it perfectly does so at the same time.

Edit - I wanted to amend that I've never been a reader of any of the books, so I enjoy being so utterly clueless.

This post has been edited by Brujah: 22 October 2015 - 12:43 PM

[QuickTidal]

While I like Revan a great deal...

spoilers in case people want to be fresh and my theory is right:

Spoiler

I'm still fully betting on Supreme Leader Snoke (Andy Serkis) being Darth Plagueis The Wise. Palpatine thought he murdered his old Master...but since Plagueis could supposedly cheat death (the scene in ROTS where Palpatine tells Anakin the story about how he was the only Sith who ever knew how to master death; he was obsessed with it, wrote books on eternal life and Sith spirits) it makes a lot of sense that he would ALLOW Palpatine to think he killed him, go off and do his Galactic Civil War and eventually die, then let things calm down...only for Plagueis himself to eventually show his face. It's why we haven't seen much of ANYTHING of what Snoke looks like...and why Serkis was chosen and Snoke is MoCapped (Plagueis is a Munn with a cybernetic jaw). And then we have to remember that in Palpatine's story to Anakin he spoke of Plagueis being able to "manipulate midichlorians to create life"...which effectively spells out that Anakin's immaculate birth is the direct result of Plagueis involvement. so the guy who basically orchestrated the entire Skywalker dynasty...finally shows up on the scene to show everyone what REAL evil looks like.

But yeah, there are people out there who are "in the know" who are 99% sure Snoke is Plagueis.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 22 October 2015 - 12:55 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

Brujah, on 22 October 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

All the theorizing about how the movie is going to play out is making me nervous.

If we keep posting every single idea about which direction the main characters are going to take, or how the story will arc, or for example "If Kylo is Luke," or "What if Luke goes Dark Side?" Then someone might actually end up nailing the big "surprise."

I am trying to keep my mind clear, using an old Jedi Mind Trick, so that the movie is a complete surprise for me. I'd hate for one of the major theories we've posted ends up being the "Big Surprise" in the story.


.....eh, what am I saying. It's Star Wars. A new TRUE Star Wars moving taking place after Return. It'll be amazing even if it isn't amazing. Somehow that shouldn't be able to make sense, yet it perfectly does so at the same time.

Edit - I wanted to amend that I've never been a reader of any of the books, so I enjoy being so utterly clueless.

Agreed. This thread has gone so far beyond anything I could contribute to and I don't have anyone handy to geek out to After the prequels I'm a tad nervous about letting myself get excited but what the heck. This is probably going to show my ignorance and I don't give a crap about knowing any new character names in advance but I'm excited that it looks (at least to me) like a girl is going to be the next jedi.

[Traveller]

I hope the characters from the originals all show varying degrees of change; leaving some blanks as to what they've been up to for the intervening decades.

I'd hate for them all to show up wearing the same gear, using the same attitudes and just looking older in it - in the same way that I hated the way that Lucas put all those awful clumsy 'origin' stories (threepio) and characters (shitty looking jabba, child-greedo) into the prequels. Gods, it was like Muppet Babies.

I'm remaining cautiously optimistic - because Lucas is not involved.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 22 October 2015 - 03:47 PM

[Traveller]

I've just been reading the early scripts for Return of the Jedi. This stuff is gold; the early drafts and discussions on how the story should run between Lucas, Kasdan and Marquand are particularly enlightening.

This may be old news to some people, apologies if this is all pretty well known, but most of this is new to me - it's really interesting to see how the ideas developed into what finally appeared on the screen.

In several early drafts, the Emperor is displeased with Vader for being weak (kind of answering my own question from earlier) and actually force-chokes Vader into submission by shutting off his ventilator. Vader is internally plotting the downfall of the Emperor, using Luke - he was being serious in ESB about ruling as father and son.. he's done with the Emperor. He's unaware that the Emperor is planning to replace him with Luke; the Emperor is aware of this - and is trying to get to Luke without Vader being present. Getting Luke to kill Vader will be how he turns him.

Vader knows he is not able to turn Luke himself - so he plans for the Emperor to turn Luke, so they can both then turn on the Emperor.

Another thing that seems clearer to me now - in the final movie, when Vader tells the Emperor that Luke is among the strike team as he can sense him, the Emperors says 'It is strange that I have not.' I've always wondered why, when he is so knowledgeable about what else is going on. Well, in the drafts, Ben and Yoda are still able to help Luke. In one, they help to deflect the Emperor's force lightning, but in several, Ben (spirit form) has been working to cloud the Emperor's mind to certain things. By helping to cloud the mind of the Emperor to Lukes intention (Luke pretends to turn in order to get to the Emperor) Ben is fulfilling his own prophecy that he 'would become more powerful than he could possibly imagine.'

Just thought I'd post it here as I'm reading it at the moment - the drafts for the final scenes involving Ben, Yoda and Luke vs the Emperor are particularly entertaining. As is one of Lucas' ideas about Lukes fate post-Jedi... he thought initially that it would be a nice twist to have Luke putting on Vaders mask at the end. But then says, we can't do that because of the kids watching!

(He was also against killing anyone off. The others thought a significant character should die in the last act, but Lucas said no, it would alienate the audience.. I think he made a good call there personally)

Funny that some explanations and important scenes on screen that are now lore were decided by things like Alec Guiness wanting more interesting lines to work with; they could only get him to return for that scene in Jedi by giving him more to work with than just exposition about the force.

Lucas originally states that both Yoda and the Emperor aren't Jedi. They teach, but don't fight. Anyone can become a jedi if they train - they learn it as a technique. He says, Yoda wouldn't be any good in a fight against Vader. I wonder when he changed his mind about that one.


I'll be quiet now ( and go back to my book)

(About Vaders final appearance..'does he shave?' Heh.)

This post has been edited by Traveller: 25 October 2015 - 08:28 AM

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 25 October 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

In several early drafts, the Emperor is displeased with Vader for being weak (kind of answering my own question from earlier) and actually force-chokes Vader into submission by shutting off his ventilator. Vader is internally plotting the downfall of the Emperor, using Luke - he was being serious in ESB about ruling as father and son.. he's done with the Emperor. He's unaware that the Emperor is planning to replace him with Luke; the Emperor is aware of this - and is trying to get to Luke without Vader being present. Getting Luke to kill Vader will be how he turns him.

Vader knows he is not able to turn Luke himself - so he plans for the Emperor to turn Luke, so they can both then turn on the Emperor.

This is essentially the plot of the new canon DARTH VADER comic series. The whole thing is a study of how neither Vader nor the Emperor trust each other as far as they can throw each other as of the end of ANH...and how once Vader discovers who Luke is...he begins plotting to get him to turn and take on the Emperor...and the Emperor is secretly searching for a new apprentice to help take out Vader. So it seems like they've worked those aspects back into canon.

[Tsundoku]

It's interesting how he went from that sort of potential character-driven coolness to the empty CGI-fests that are the prequel trilogy. Where did it all go wrong? Believing his own press? Wanking over advances in CGI?

Le sigh.

[HoosierDaddy]

I still love the prequel lightsaber battles (and Natalie Portman). It's just the character "growth" and specific plot points that blow.

[Traveller]

Tsundoku, on 25 October 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's interesting how he went from that sort of potential character-driven coolness to the empty CGI-fests that are the prequel trilogy. Where did it all go wrong? Believing his own press? Wanking over advances in CGI?

Le sigh.

I would be genuinely interested to know how he went from his first ideas about the force, to what we see in the prequels. It's quite a change of view from anyone being a potential jedi, to the midichlorian count nonsense which seemed to jar with everything that had been said before (or after, chronologically speaking.)

But then, in the Making of RotJ book I'm reading, they are discussing how to get Ben to explain to Luke why he didn't tell him about his father. They are quite literally making it up as they go along, and backtracking where it is possible to do so without creating plotholes.

But to go from draft scenes at the end of Jedi where Ben and Yoda are involved in bringing down the Emperor (Ben even 'uses up' his force maintained netherworld image to save Luke, meaning he is lost forever) to those scenes in TPM where they do a blood test on Anakin... I'd like to read the discussion about that.

[Traveller]

I expect a lot of people are going back to them for a rewatch. I've been watching the original trilogy recently, as since I put them on once my boy has been asking for them - he likes Jedi in particular.

I'm almost tempted to watch 2 and 3.. almost. I really can't stand the first one though, despite Maul. I've seen 2 the least, but that's because I remember the whole clumsy romance angle and get totally put off. Also I've buried my dvd copies so deep somewhere I can't even find them.

When did you last watch them BK? I'd left it so long that I was actually seeing them from a different point of view.. I guess as an adult. And being a father kind of changes things too.

As films they've actually aged rather well. I find the way ILM filmed explosions and then used them over everything makes them appear 'stuck on' and not really to scale, but it's a minor niggle - the effects still look way better than 99% of present day cgi.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 26 October 2015 - 06:46 AM

[Traveller]

I've been getting into Clone Wars - it's way better than I thought it would be. (I still hate the droid army - I guess they went comedy cannon fodder over.. Cylons.)

Although last night I hit an ep with Jar Jar in it. Which was as awful as it could have been. There was a bit near the beginning where it appeared he'd been killed, and I seriously thought for a moment that they'd gone and done it, as it would have been a smart move.

But, no. It went downhill from there.

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 26 October 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

I've been getting into Clone Wars - it's way better than I thought it would be. (I still hate the droid army - I guess they went comedy cannon fodder over.. Cylons.)

Although last night I hit an ep with Jar Jar in it. Which was as awful as it could have been. There was a bit near the beginning where it appeared he'd been killed, and I seriously thought for a moment that they'd gone and done it, as it would have been a smart move.

But, no. It went downhill from there.

There ARE some filler eps in TCW (Jar Jar and Threepio)...but they get fewer and farther between as the seasons go on. Not to worry.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

There ARE some filler eps in TCW (Jar Jar and Threepio and R2 and Amidala and some of Ahsokah's early eps)...but they get fewer and farther between as the seasons go on. Not to worry.

FTFY.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 26 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

There ARE some filler eps in TCW (Jar Jar and Threepio and R2 and Amidala and some of Ahsokah's early eps)...but they get fewer and farther between as the seasons go on. Not to worry.

FTFY.

Truth.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

There ARE some filler eps in TCW (Jar Jar and Threepio and R2 and Amidala and some of Ahsokah's early eps)...but they get fewer and farther between as the seasons go on. Not to worry.

FTFY.

Truth.

I know, right?
You can cheerfully skip any ep that strongly features JarJar, the droids or Padme, content with the knowledge that you are missing utterly nothing important to the broader story.
Asoka is a little trickier... if the episode seems frivolous, it probably is, but into the late seasons her episodes are some of the best.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 26 October 2015 - 02:22 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 October 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

There ARE some filler eps in TCW (Jar Jar and Threepio and R2 and Amidala and some of Ahsokah's early eps)...but they get fewer and farther between as the seasons go on. Not to worry.

FTFY.

Truth.

I know, right?
You can cheerfully skip any ep that strongly features JarJar, the droids or Padme, content with the knowledge that you are missing utterly nothing important to the broader story.
Asoka is a little trickier... if the episode seems frivolous, it probably is, but into the late seasons her episodes are some of the best.

You can freely skip S1 eps that feature only Ahsoka....but anything past S2 and you'd be missing her growth.