[Traveller]

I've noticed that there hasn't been much of a reaction, on this thread at least, to

Spoiler

Solos death. Maybe because it was always likely; most people were expecting it, and it was executed (heh) well enough not to cause complaints. But to me it still stands out, as it was Lucas who decided not to kill off any of the main cast as he believed that it would 'alienate the audience', and in that moment watching it for the first time I can see where he's coming from. Because for me, whatever else followed, I was taken out of it by the fact that a big character from my childhood had just been killed by the light saber equivalent of a rusty sword through the heart.

I know storywise it made sense, but as they were setting the charges in the shield base, just like old times, I was thinking about what a good job they'd done at bringing Solo back. He never was very complicated; he wasn't a great smuggler, and he couldn't even take down those two troopers on Endor without making a supreme hash of it - but he was still the 'main' character of the OT for those that thought Luke was a bit of a whiner to begin with.

So I guess I'm still in two minds whether or not it had to happen. As I said, story wise it is almost essential for many reasons, primarily Rens development, as well as making way for the new generation. It was also well done, with him dropping away into the smoke like that. It was just sad to watch.

I'd like to watch it again without that sense of expectation I always get on a first viewing.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 21 December 2015 - 06:51 AM

[worry]

Spoiler

I dunno. Seems to me maps are pretty normal things.

[worry]

Spoiler

Also, I didn't read all the long nerd posts in Spoiler tags but did anyone remark how awesome it is that the Dark Side is literally sucking up suns to destroy worlds -- ie a beautiful, literal corruption and destruction of Light? Totally awesome.

[Morgoth]

I watched it last night and I had a lot of fun! Very pleased by the whole experience.

I loved the two mains, Rey and Finn. The actors did very well, and the chemistry between them was great. I very much enjoyed how Rey continously refused to be rescued, how competent she was, that was very refreshing. I also thought Ford did a very good job as an old man trying to climb back into a life he left long ago (being a smugler, not a general).

Spoiler

Kylo Ren was good too. His introduction, the presence, the blaster shot held in the air, it was great! I sort of thought he lost some of his aura rather fast. An excellent character, but not as memorable a stage presence as Vader. Certainly not as intimidating.

Supreme Leader Snoke though, I did not like him much. He felt like a failed attempt to make the Emperor v 2.0, rather than a new character. Serkis does great with what was available to him, but the supreme leader just wasn't very good. I think if Snoke had been better Kylo Ren would have done better too. In my opinion, the failure of Snoke's presence in the movie forces Kylo Ren to fill a different role than was intended. I don't think Ren serves well as a main villain, unlike Vader.

I think my main critizism is that the movie moved too fast from one place to another. It needed, I feel, some moments of calm, of rest. Someone mentioned in this thread that they should have stayed the night at that Inn with the Mez character. A little bit of rest, some regular conversation. I think it would have served the movie very well. That would also make the attack feel a little more believable. I mean, both the Resistance and the First Order turned up within what, 10 minutes? They both had a fleet ready for deployment within a travel distance of ten minutes? It just felt.. rushed.

If anything I wish they'd been a little braver. This is a great movie. A great Star Wars movie! But it is very conventional. We'd watched the original trilogy earlier in the day and the destruction of yet another Death Star as the pivotal plot point was glaring.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 21 December 2015 - 07:39 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Traveller, on 21 December 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

I've noticed that there hasn't been much of a reaction, on this thread at least, to

Spoiler

Solos death. Maybe because it was always likely; most people were expecting it, and it was executed (heh) well enough not to cause complaints. But to me it still stands out, as it was Lucas who decided not to kill off any of the main cast as he believed that it would 'alienate the audience', and in that moment watching it for the first time I can see where he's coming from. Because for me, whatever else followed, I was taken out of it by the fact that a big character from my childhood had just been killed by the light saber equivalent of a rusty sword through the heart.

I know storywise it made sense, but as they were setting the charges in the shield base, just like old times, I was thinking about what a good job they'd done at bringing Solo back. He never was very complicated; he wasn't a great smuggler, and he couldn't even take down those two troopers on Endor without making a supreme hash of it - but he was still the 'main' character of the OT for those that thought Luke was a bit of a whiner to begin with.

So I guess I'm still in two minds whether or not it had to happen. As I said, story wise it is almost essential for many reasons, primarily Rens development, as well as making way for the new generation. It was also well done, with him dropping away into the smoke like that. It was just sad to watch.

I'd like to watch it again without that sense of expectation I always get on a first viewing.

Spoiler

Puttin on mah shades to cover up who dies

[Traveller]

Morgoth, on 21 December 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

I watched it last night and I had a lot of fun! Very pleased by the whole experience.

I loved the two mains, Rey and Finn. The actors did very well, and the chemistry between them was great. I very much enjoyed how Rey continously refused to be rescued, how competent she was, that was very refreshing. I also thought Ford did a very good job as an old man trying to climb back into a life he left long ago (being a smugler, not a general).

Spoiler

Kylo Ren was good too. His introduction, the presence, the blaster shot held in the air, it was great! I sort of thought he lost some of his aura rather fast. An excellent character, but not as memorable a stage presence as Vader. Certainly not as intimidating.

Supreme Leader Snoke though, I did not like him much. He felt like a failed attempt to make the Emperor v 2.0, rather than a new character. Serkis does great with what was available to him, but the supreme leader just wasn't very good. I think if Snoke had been better Kylo Ren would have done better too. In my opinion, the failure of Snoke's presence in the movie forces Kylo Ren to fill a different role than was intended. I don't think Ren serves well as a main villain, unlike Vader.

I think my main critizism is that the movie moved too fast from one place to another. It needed, I feel, some moments of calm, of rest. Someone mentioned in this thread that they should have stayed the night at that Inn with the Mez character. A little bit of rest, some regular conversation. I think it would have served the movie very well. That would also make the attack feel a little more believable. I mean, both the Resistance and the First Order turned up within what, 10 minutes? They both had a fleet ready for deployment within a travel distance of ten minutes? It just felt.. rushed.

If anything I wish they'd been a little braver. This is a great movie. A great Star Wars movie! But it is very conventional. We'd watched the original trilogy earlier in the day and the destruction of yet another Death Star as the pivotal plot point was glaring.

Sums up my thoughts too. Although regarding Ren,

Spoiler

everyone should remember that this is the first of a new set of movies - this was the set-up. Later this will be looked back on as how Ren began; he will undoubtedly become more skilled and have more of a presence, but this movie was about showing his origin, which was done really well.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 21 December 2015 - 09:01 AM

[Tsundoku]

Going to see it in Wednesday, but for something different (and rather TIC) here's some Galactic economics on destroying Death Stars willy-nilly:

http://www.news.com....e495c63ae595631

[QuickTidal]

I've heard from a few people who have seen it more than once among my friends, and they've pretty universally said that any of their initial nitpicks vanish upon the second viewing. No expectations, just sitting back and enjoying. Which is nice to hear. I can't wait to see it again on Wednesday.

Also, it's gone 517 million for 3 days, and it's not even open in China yet...I'm thinking that this is gonna crack the 3 billion mark, and will definitely unseat AVATAR.

BK, starting the novelization today, will let you know how it goes.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 21 December 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

Also, it's gone 517 million for 3 days, and it's not even open in China yet...I'm thinking that this is gonna crack the 3 billion mark, and will definitely unseat AVATAR.

While at first glance it seems likely to beat Avatar, it didn't actually break Jurassic World's records worldwide, and only broke them in the US thanks to a Thursday open. And according to box office mojo a big China gross isn't the sure thing it is elsewhere in the world, with the OT only being screened there for the first time this year and the PT making a whole 18mil combined.
So while I'm rooting for it to break Avatar and am expecting it to have more longevity than JW, especially with the holiday season, it's not as certain as a glance at the numbers make it seem.

[Obdigore]

QuickTidal, on 20 December 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

Defiance, on 20 December 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

I enjoyed the film. It was a definite step up from the prequels. I really look forward to seeing Rey's journey. That actress did a hell of a job. Same for the guy who played Kylo Ren.

I have similar complaints to what most have voiced:

Spoiler

They played things way too safe with the writing. This was a complete rehash of episode 4.

The movie should have been 30 minutes longer. I felt like it moved at breakneck pace throughout, never stopping to immerse us in the current events of the world. That's not a bad thing for every movie, but it would have been nice to get some background on why exactly the Republic wasn't able to shape itself up. The destruction of the Republic home system meant absolutely nothing when it happened. And Death Star 3.0, really? Enough imperial super weapons already. The best Star Wars movie was all about personal conflict, not blowing up yet another space station.

Why the hell is there a map to Luke? Felt like a complete MacGuffin.

Spoiler

1. The Republic did shape itself up. It extinguished the most of the Empire after Endor....the remnants went off tot lick their wounds. The issue comes down to Mon Mothma, who became Grand Chancillor after Endor....she decides to disband the majority of the Republic military after they get rid of the Empire...as a show of good faith to the Galaxy. Live in peace, and prove it by having no more large military. The issue is then when the First Order appears years later, no one is ready. The Resistance is the military they have been able to assemble in the interim....but they are still caught on their heels. Source: AFTERMATH by Wendig.

Did the destruction of Alderaan mean nothing in ANH? Just because we haven't yet seen the Republic in full yet doesn't mean it can
T bear weight to have a major planet of it destroyed.

If you were the remnants of the Empire, the military wing, and you had it in you to create a SYSTEM DESTROYING weapon that can fire through hyperspace...why would you NOT use that. These guys are ALL ABOUT the super weapons. Understand that they are the underdogs at this point. They only have a small navy, and need to be BIG hits to make dents in the Republic. No amount of ground war is going to achieve that. Big super weapon is the way to go.

With regards to the map. its not a map to Luke. I've seen that comment in a few places now, and it seems to have missed the dialogue. Leia notes on screen that it's a map to the first Jedi Temple, which was where Luke was headed. Kylo finds out that Luke went there and knows that's where he will find him. The map itself though is actually just a map to that first Jedi temple.

I don't think your 1 here is true, QT.

In the movie, at least

Spoiler

The First Order states they need to 'get rid of the republic fleet'. One of the planets destroyed (you can see like a quarter of the planet in the lower left hand of the screen) has a large number of large ships picked out above it.

So I'm still confused at the whole 'resistance' thing. Why do they have only a squadron of xwings and some ground troops, when they are a part (I think?) of the Republic?

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 21 December 2015 - 02:03 PM

[Garak]

The Resistence are not part of the Republic. Officially the Republic considers them to be a bunch of nutters who still thin there's anything to be afraid of regarding the First Order (which is viewed like we do North Korea). Unofficially some Republic senators do give funds to the Resistence, which is why they have a few squadrons of X-wings and at least 2 capital ships (including the Home One).

[QuickTidal]

Obdigore, on 21 December 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 20 December 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

Defiance, on 20 December 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

I enjoyed the film. It was a definite step up from the prequels. I really look forward to seeing Rey's journey. That actress did a hell of a job. Same for the guy who played Kylo Ren.

I have similar complaints to what most have voiced:

Spoiler

They played things way too safe with the writing. This was a complete rehash of episode 4.

The movie should have been 30 minutes longer. I felt like it moved at breakneck pace throughout, never stopping to immerse us in the current events of the world. That's not a bad thing for every movie, but it would have been nice to get some background on why exactly the Republic wasn't able to shape itself up. The destruction of the Republic home system meant absolutely nothing when it happened. And Death Star 3.0, really? Enough imperial super weapons already. The best Star Wars movie was all about personal conflict, not blowing up yet another space station.

Why the hell is there a map to Luke? Felt like a complete MacGuffin.

Spoiler

1. The Republic did shape itself up. It extinguished the most of the Empire after Endor....the remnants went off tot lick their wounds. The issue comes down to Mon Mothma, who became Grand Chancillor after Endor....she decides to disband the majority of the Republic military after they get rid of the Empire...as a show of good faith to the Galaxy. Live in peace, and prove it by having no more large military. The issue is then when the First Order appears years later, no one is ready. The Resistance is the military they have been able to assemble in the interim....but they are still caught on their heels. Source: AFTERMATH by Wendig.

Did the destruction of Alderaan mean nothing in ANH? Just because we haven't yet seen the Republic in full yet doesn't mean it can
T bear weight to have a major planet of it destroyed.

If you were the remnants of the Empire, the military wing, and you had it in you to create a SYSTEM DESTROYING weapon that can fire through hyperspace...why would you NOT use that. These guys are ALL ABOUT the super weapons. Understand that they are the underdogs at this point. They only have a small navy, and need to be BIG hits to make dents in the Republic. No amount of ground war is going to achieve that. Big super weapon is the way to go.

With regards to the map. its not a map to Luke. I've seen that comment in a few places now, and it seems to have missed the dialogue. Leia notes on screen that it's a map to the first Jedi Temple, which was where Luke was headed. Kylo finds out that Luke went there and knows that's where he will find him. The map itself though is actually just a map to that first Jedi temple.

I don't think your 1 here is true, QT.

In the movie, at least

Spoiler

The First Order states they need to 'get rid of the republic fleet'. One of the planets destroyed (you can see like a quarter of the planet in the lower left hand of the screen) has a large number of large ships picked out above it.

So I'm still confused at the whole 'resistance' thing. Why do they have only a squadron of xwings and some ground troops, when they are a part (I think?) of the Republic?

Spoiler

In the novelization (and in the AFTERMATH book) it's a little clearer actually. The First Order rises up AFTER Luke disappears, which is around the time of Rey's dropping off on Jakku...when she was about 7 (guess), meaning that he's been gone about 13 years. Two things have jumped out in my early reading of the novelization:

1. Poe doesn't know who Kylo Ren is when he meets him. This means that though Ben turned long ago, he's only become part of the command structure of The First Order recently...and it's also noted that the Finalizer (their flagship star destroyer) is brand new.
2. In the opening Leia is thinking about how Luke left and she needs him now...that the First Order, to him would be news. If I had to speculate on them, this means that we are talking about a few years new. I'm sure they have a fleet....but it's a small one.

In AFTERMATH the notes about Mon Monthma, the New Republic and her disbanding of the military is all noted very specifically in the interludes. She sees a Republic that doesn't need a military for peace if there is no longer a threat (a boneheaded decision). The New Republic center of state moves to the homeworld of its elected leader...so while it was Mon Mothma it was Chandrilla.

But I've discovered more since then, none of which was all that clear on screen...but will hopefully be fleshed out in Ep8.

Since the First Order goes after Hosnian Prime, The New Republic is now run by the Chancellor Lanever Villecham, his focus is almost squarely on trade relations, and doesn’t seem that fussed about war with the First Order as a result. While he recognises The First Order, he doesn’t see them as a major threat and won’t get involved as long as they follow the boundaries of the Galactic Concordance, a treaty signed after the fall of the Empire.

As The New Republic didn’t seem all that fussed by the rather troubling emergence of the First Order, the Resistance splinted off and have taken it upon themselves to keep the First Order in check. They’ve been fighting a quiet war with the First Order for some time, being a thorn in the Imperial’s side for years. The First Order apparently lump the Resistance in with the New Republic...even though officially the New Republic doesn't exactly sanction what Leia and Co. are doing with said Resistance. JJ has used the phrase "Splinter group" to describe them.


And a few more things I've thought about in the interim.

In the novelization Lors San Tekka (Von Sydow) is referred to as a "soldier of fortune" when caught by Kylo, and Poe says "I grew up on stories of your exploits" in the tent. I'm wondering if he's Boba Fett. Not the kid unaltered clone of Jango...but the person who found the armor of Fett (AFTERMATH) after the Sarlaac spit it out, and used it to become a mercenary for the Republic? He's definitely a much bigger piece of the puzzle than his 5 minutes on screen would denote.

And I'm wondering if Rey is Luke's (and I think she fully is) daughter...is she stronger in the force because her mother was ALSO a Jedi? I mean the animosity Ben has for his father could have stemmed from the fact that Han is just a pleb and not strong in the Force. Meanwhile he gets REALLY angry when he learns about Rey. This makes me think that the theory that Luke had a Jedi wife, and she died...but Kylo knew about her...and as such knows upon meeting Rey that she could be this offspring who would naturally be stronger than he is as a result of her dual Jedi parentage? Just a thought.

Oh, and Obi...you were right about Rey's vision. You DO hear Alec Guiness (only briefly), and we also hear Yoda, Luke (all audio samples from the previous films)...and...Ewan McGregor came in and specially recorded a new Obi-Wan line that comes at the end of her vision "Rey, these are your first steps..." which is DAMNED cool. And now the possibility that a Ewan Force Ghost in Ep8 is higher for me.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 December 2015 - 02:35 PM

[Silencer]

I took that to be:

Spoiler

The First Order inherited a lot of personnel and resources from the Empire - after all, the Imperial Fleet wasn't wiped out completely at Endor, while the Republic has not exactly become a military industrial complex. So. They have a fleet, a competent one, but the First Order doesn't control the galaxy, they are mobile and not beholden to territory. So the Republic did what it had to: protect the Core systems. Coruscant is the heart of the Republic and so they had to prevent it being attacked. Most of the Republic Fleet was there.
In order to prevent the First Order from simply running rampant, they had to do something. But seeing as the Order wasn't blatantly conquering places of importance, they also didn't want to start another intergalactic war and so they did what all governments do - established 'unrelated' militants to resist the occupation where possible. Thus, the Resistance. Small, mobile, indirectly funded and supplied, and able to call on the Republic Fleet if necessary.
So they're like a cold war era cell in a contested nation. Basically. But with more direct links.

So that's what thought anyway.

[Obdigore]

So all of that may be, but none of it was even HINTED at in the movie.

There is nothing in the movie saying why there is a 'resistance' against the first order which sees itself at war with the Republic, and why they apparently have a single squadron of x-wings... the first order states they need to destroy the republic fleet, and yet, the 'resistance' is just ugh.

It's poorly done in the movie. I only hope that it was done this poorly because explanations were left on the cutting room floor, and the 'directors edition' will have some explanations that were cut.

It's one of two things in the movie that could have been done better that really bug me.

I'm also kind of shocked that

Spoiler

The first order built new 'stardeath' device into a planet, that can take all the energy from a sun, obliterate an entire solar system, and move on, and NO ONE FUCKING NOTICED. Judging by the ability to hyperspace, it feels like they could send out 3 dudes in x-wings and check in with all the local systems 3 times a day, every day. They even mentioned that they had someone do a 'fly-by' in the movie and they were looking at data that scout got. I mean... come on. That project would have taken Years (or maybe even Decades) to complete. Especially with all the resourced the first order would have had to move in and out of the system. No one is keeping tabs on them? None of the merchants selling them all this stuff would say 'that's a mighty big canon you've got there, guy...' and told someone else?

PS - This episode should have been a fleet to fleet battle where the Republic's fleet gets crushed, and the end of the movie was the resistance trying to band together what was left of the republic fleet while they send Rey to find Luke because they suddenly realize what danger they are in and need him. Not another goddamn death star.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 21 December 2015 - 03:22 PM

[QuickTidal]

Silencer, on 21 December 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

I took that to be:

Spoiler

The First Order inherited a lot of personnel and resources from the Empire - after all, the Imperial Fleet wasn't wiped out completely at Endor, while the Republic has not exactly become a military industrial complex. So. They have a fleet, a competent one, but the First Order doesn't control the galaxy, they are mobile and not beholden to territory. So the Republic did what it had to: protect the Core systems. Coruscant is the heart of the Republic and so they had to prevent it being attacked. Most of the Republic Fleet was there.
In order to prevent the First Order from simply running rampant, they had to do something. But seeing as the Order wasn't blatantly conquering places of importance, they also didn't want to start another intergalactic war and so they did what all governments do - established 'unrelated' militants to resist the occupation where possible. Thus, the Resistance. Small, mobile, indirectly funded and supplied, and able to call on the Republic Fleet if necessary.
So they're like a cold war era cell in a contested nation. Basically. But with more direct links.

So that's what thought anyway.

Canon Source (AFTERMATH) says:

Spoiler

As of 3 months after the battle of Endor. The Imperial Remnant navy have 4 Star Destroyers, and one Super Star Destroyer left. That's it for big ships. And as far as I can TELL, the Finalizer in TFA is MADE from upgrading the one Super Star Destroyer they have left. So that's 5 big boats against the rest of the Republic navies...which includes MOST of the civilized worlds in the core space, including places like Correlia where ship building is a big deal. They are also not mobile, and they do apparently have territory (as signed in the treaty) in which the Republic leaves them alone as long as they stay on their side and cause no trouble...which they haven't really as of yet (the battles they fight are solely with the Resistance to this point). These are the Nazi's in Argentina, coming out of hiding, en masse, and attacking the Allies when they think they've won.

This is not to say that the First Order didn't MAKE new big ships...but it certainly doesn't sound or seem like it. Otherwise you'd have seen a larger military clash. No, I think the point of the FO and Hux especially is to take the Republic (who it has signed a treaty with) completely by surprise with Starkiller Base. Take out the center of their government, throw them into chaos, and then turn full attention to the Resistance that's been nipping at them for years.

Obdigore, on 21 December 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

So all of that may be, but none of it was even HINTED at in the movie.

There is nothing in the movie saying why there is a 'resistance' against the first order which sees itself at war with the Republic, and why they apparently have a single squadron of x-wings... the first order states they need to destroy the republic fleet, and yet, the 'resistance' is just ugh.

It's poorly done in the movie. I only hope that it was done this poorly because explanations were left on the cutting room floor, and the 'directors edition' will have some explanations that were cut.

It's one of two things in the movie that could have been done better that really bug me.

I'm also kind of shocked that

Spoiler

The first order built new 'stardeath' device into a planet, that can take all the energy from a sun, obliterate an entire solar system, and move on, and NO ONE FUCKING NOTICED. Judging by the ability to hyperspace, it feels like they could send out 3 dudes in x-wings and check in with all the local systems 3 times a day, every day. They even mentioned that they had someone do a 'fly-by' in the movie and they were looking at data that scout got. I mean... come on. That project would have taken Years (or maybe even Decades) to complete. Especially with all the resourced the first order would have had to move in and out of the system. No one is keeping tabs on them? None of the merchants selling them all this stuff would say 'that's a mighty big canon you've got there, guy...' and told someone else?

PS - This episode should have been a fleet to fleet battle where the Republic's fleet gets crushed, and the end of the movie was the resistance trying to band together what was left of the republic fleet while they send Rey to find Luke because they suddenly realize what danger they are in and need him. Not another goddamn death star.

Spoiler

Wasn't the firing of it in the movie the first such firing? Like before that it was just a planet with a massive base built into it? And it sounds like the agreement signed after the defeat of the Empire (Galactic Concordance) gave the First Order space behind their own lines in that agreement to work unimpeded on building it. I mean other than possible spies (which would go against Republic edict) who is going to tell the Republic or the Resistance what it is...and if the first firing in the film was in fact that...not even Leia would know what it would/could do. Makes enough sense to me, even without the novelization notes about it.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 December 2015 - 03:42 PM

[QuickTidal]

Spoiler

Info from JJ on what the map actually is (it's NOT a map to Luke...rather a map the the first Jedi temple as I stated above) and how R2 woke up and why (which I think falls in line with what I said about BB-8 having the last piece of the map and letting R2 know which caused him to wake)

The story group’s thinking went back to the 1977 original movie, when R2-D2 accessed the Empire’s mainframe as the heroes searched for the captured Princess Leia. “We had the idea about R2 plugging into the information base of the Death Star, and that’s how he was able to get the full map and find where the Jedi temples are,” Arndt said.

Abrams says he chose to spell this out indirectly in the movie because he didn’t want the story to get bogged down in “how s–t happened 30 years ago.”

“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.

“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”

The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”

So for those let wondering: BB-8’s earlier question rattles around inside R2’s dome for a while. Those old astromechs must just take a while to boot up again.

[Salt-Man Z]

Saw it yesterday. Loved it. Still doesn't feel like "real" Star Wars to me (on account of the EU) but it felt like a real Star Wars movie, if that makes sense. Some quick thoughts:

• All of the new characters were great. Adam Driver's performance as
  Spoiler

  Darth Caedus
  Kylo Ren was fantastic.
  
• I can't help but think that
  Spoiler

  Han Solo's death was the only way to get Harrison Ford to come back. It was well-done, but incredibly obvious once he made the decision to confront Ben.
  
  
• Speaking of which,
  Spoiler

  I'm not sure I like the name Ben. It was a perfect name for Luke's kid, but the name "Ben" (as in Kenobi) should have no meaning to either Han or Leia. It almost feels like it was just a bone thrown to the EU crowd.
  
  
• J.J. Abrams really hates that whole large-distances-in-space thing, doesn't he? I mean like, absolutely abhors it.
  
• Am I the only one who thought 3PO's voice sounded oddly high-pitched? Having just watched the OT with the kiddos the two nights prior, it really jumped out at me.
  
• I was fine with Starkiller base, even if it wasn't really explained. It was a little contradictory
  Spoiler

  in that it was never shown/hinted to move, but also implied that it "killed" its star each time it was used. So either it did, in fact, move (which doesn't make much sense) or the star dimming is only temporary (makes more sense, but wasn't at all conveyed.)
  No biggie either way.
  
• I totally figured the last line of the movie would be
  Spoiler

  Luke saying, "My daughter." Oh well. Kinda wish that final scene had a little more. And it felt a little odd that everyone wanted to get Luke, and yet at the end the only person to go get him was The New Girl.
  
  
• And yes, the map
  Spoiler

  may have been for the first temple, but other than one mention, everyone in-film called it the "map to Luke Skywalker".
  
  
• Also on the map:
  Spoiler

  what's the point of map to a point in space having a route to it? I mean, if people want to know where Luke is, bam, here's his position, go find him. A point-to-point route across the galaxy is (no pun intended) pointless. Unless it's somehow hidden away behind specific hyperspace lanes or something, but then how would that even work?

[Traveller]

In regards to the map

Spoiler

I've just watched the end of season 3 of Clone Wars. The Jedi retrieve a map from Tarkin which shows hidden lanes and routes through separatist held systems, which the Republic don't want to fall into the wrong hands. The map in TFA might be something similar.

[QuickTidal]

Re: The map.

JJ noted

Spoiler

It's a map that came from the Imperial archives in ANH when R2 plugged in as Luke and Han save Leia. It notes the Jedi Temples because Palpatine was obsessed with wiping out ALL knowledge of the Jedi. So the points are marked on that map so he could make sure those locales were "purged". But yeah, it's only the "Map to Skywalker" because they know he went to the first Jedi temple, so it is a map to him by side product. At least according to those who wrote the film and their intention of why a map exists to him. It's really a map to the temple.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 December 2015 - 05:21 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

Hey Scott, do you have a link to the JJ quotes? (Or what is the source, exactly?) I want to share them on Tor.com, but I'd be more credible if I knew where they were from.