[Meanas]

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Grasshopper?

Yes? As in Yoda calls Luke Skywalker Grasshopper when he's training him in the swamp? The Dresden books reference Star Wars on a fairly regular basis. When Molly calls her brothers and sisters little Jawas, she's talking about these guys:

[Path-Shaper]

it actually comes from the tv show Kung Fu. look it up.

jlv

[Sorrit]

Had a good read up and formed some theories.

Spite (symp) Karosis and Meanas killers. Possibly.



Why?


I'll go through it now. The Spite early vote I still think was signalling. I have always thought it was a signal. Meanas immediately calls it a bogus case. Meanas then finds Lio suspicious and attributes this behaviour to Karosis getting a vote. yet he doesn't find Karosis suspicious. He goes on to say there might be a connection between Spite and I but leaves out Karosis.

Emur questions Spite and I somewhat and is night killed. Easy for the killers to point some fingers my way.

Karosis' posts do nothing to make me think he could be not a killer. He did nothing yesterday that helped town significantly.

Meanas then finds Tellan suspicious and agrees with Karosis to do so. Yet Meanas then goes on to add more pressure on Liosan.

Then the key to yesterday in my opinion was Spite removing his vote off of Karosis. It made him a lesser train. Classic that although Spite brought him up first his vote was never going to end up on Karosis.

After this Meanas proceeds to vote for Liosan. For what reason?

Quote

In fact, given that nothing more interesting has popped up (though I'm keeping my eye on Tellan. I've never yet seen scum actually post the way he is, but that could make it a perfect cover for scum).

For now, seeing as we're approaching end of day (we're what, like 4-5 hours off?)

vote Liosan

Spite joins the train a little later.

Karosis doesn't even have to switch. He is on a seperate train to Meanas which is what scum would want to do.



I am convinced that one of Karosis/Meanas is scum.



Going off that Meanas was "suspicious" of Tellan yesterday but follows his vote today on gut alone says a lot. So therefore



Vote Meanas

[Fener]

So here is the main issue I have with Sorrit:

Sorrit, on 09 October 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Say for example your a thief. You creep into someone's house and start packing your bag full of their items. Out of thin air you hear a noise. It is someone saying, "what are you doing?". The natural response would be to freeze. In your head your thinking, "Shit, what do I do? What do I say?".


Karosis comes on and says what he says. Spite jokingly put on his vote. Karosis Freezes. It's very early in the day and I know Karosis is going to come on and laugh it off but i'm going to keep my eye on him. I know the killers would not want to get attention this early and that is why I think he froze. He doesn't know how to respond and he is waiting for others to take up the mantle. Then he can come on and join in the fun again. Nothing big but for now i'll add a bit of pressure too..


Vote Karosis

This is his first post. Karosis has "frozen" (in the opening minutes of the game, when all the previous posts had been "First!"), and so Sorrit is going to keep an eye on him. Why? He's jumping on the back of a joke vote, but it's not a joke vote. He's adding pressure, but there is no pressure to begin with.

Then he returns later with a justification for his vote:

Sorrit, on 09 October 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

OMg Lolz!

Spite could just as well have been a signal to Karosis. The fact that it came early would make us doubt it was signalling but JLV did it in one post two games back so it is possible. As it stands Spite's vote was a joke or a signal, mine was semi serious, post provoking game starting. No ones getting it easy this game so why Spites vote? He could have voted any of the first few posters so why Karosis? Why did it take so long for Karosis to reply, "what's up ma bitches", sounds like someone who wants to talk or discuss things yet when a vote came his way he said nothing. It's nothing huge but something to keep an eye on. Thirdly or this is my third point why not add to a vote? I'm not afraid to ruffle some feathers, maybe Spites vote is so Shit we look elsewhere day one, maybe he's the symp bringing focus on Karosis or maybe he's the symp signalling Karosis which brings me back to Spite, why Karosis in the first place?

Karosis says later that he was running errands. There is nothing to suggest that Karosis has frozen rather than is simply away from his computer. I find it really strange that Sorrit has defended his vote here, and then changes his vote later to an OMGUS vote. This suggests that Sorrit is not particularly worried about where his vote is going.

The other thing I found odd was this later vote from Spite.

Spite, on 10 October 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Korvalain


Gawd, those posts you just made smack of "look at me be helpful and say tsk tsk calm down you hotheads"

There's nothing wrong with bringing a reasonable edge into the game, but on day one there really isn't "reason", just the same old arguments that pop up every game.

I've never understood the desire to lynch off "reasonable" players with no other reason than "because they are being reasonable". It's just a dumb excuse. And Spite's justification for his vote is that there is no reason on day one? That's stupid. If you want to have discussions that aren't the same as every other day one argument, why are you voting for the one least likely to get involved in those discussions?

Spite's vote irritates me, but it's not enough to warrant anything more than suspicion. It's just something I'll be keeping an eye on.

Sorrit's behaviour, on the other hand, seems pretty scummy to me.

[Fener]

Korvalain, on 11 October 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Ok, just finished a reread of day 1. A couple of things and people jumped out at me that warrant more scrutiny, but to summarize before I begin, the key one that I'm suspicious of is Tulas Shorn. I'll explain why in just a sec.

First of all, here is the essence of what is concerning about Karo:

Karosis, on 09 October 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Well then. Two votes on me while running errands. I see all of your points. Its day 1, but i find it interesting that spite added a pressure vite to a joke vote. Trying to start a train to lynch a townie? Maybe, maybe not. You could just be a townie trying to generate discussion, which i am also trying to do.

This is all too conciliatory, trying to not be offensive, stepping on egg shells, etc. It's the start of the game, and yet Karo is already cagey. Hiding something?



The next observation was done by Fener:

Fener, on 10 October 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I'm here!

And I'm seeing some pretty latent anger. I know it's been a long wait between Mafia games, but our fix is here now! No need to be grumpy!

To some extent I see the majority of the posts and voting as trying to progress the game, which is great, and difficult to do this early in the game, when everyone wants to be spamming and joke-voting. But I'm really confused by Tellan's post and vote. He's not contributing to discussion, and he isn't joke voting. There is no reason for him to be adding a pressure vote when there are already two votes on Karosis, and he hasn't given that as justification in any case.

To come in with a vote in your first post, and then not justify it, seems so off to me.

This hit the nail on the head. Why is Tellan creating a train on his first post early in day 1? And when people call him on it, he goes nuclear with his penis. My evaluation is he tries to get a vote moving on Karo, realizes people aren't entirely convinced that the Karo case is worthwhile, and backpedals like hell, throwing out random craziness to throw people off the sent (as demonstrated by this quote):

Tellan, on 10 October 2012 - 02:52 AM, said:

I agree with everything...

Baaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!


Here is a penis shooting at you

==================D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Pew pew....nothing to discuss and nothing to contribute. Early day one trains are fun

ALL ABOARD!!!!

DING DING!

And this technique works, as Tulas seems to demonstrate with the following post:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

3rd time on here this AM, keep getting interrupted

Tellan is awfully slapdash, don't suspect him now, could be a ruse I suppose

gonna go back

And that neatly brings me to TS. First of all, this above post bothers me. TS writes off Tellan, quickly, just because of a syphilitic penis. Why? Does TS know something about Tellan we don't? Is TS trying to push people into discounting Tellan?

But then TS says he'll vote for Sorrit if Tellan will just shut up. Which gets called out as suspicious by OE. And TS gets prickly over this call-out.

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

you're making up that it's somehow ominous instead of the sarcasm that it was intended to be

Ok, people get snarky about being called out all the time (looks at Lio ). But I feel this is a subtle slip up on TS's part. He's a little more twitchy than the typical RI (excepting Lio). In fact, he tries to amend his snappishness with the following in red:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 10 October 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

you're making up that it's somehow ominous instead of the sarcasm that it was intended to be

She said, he said. Can't be proven either way now. But I would have loved it if Tellan had come back and just said, 'yeah, ok, do that then', just to see if you actually would have.

I stand by the fact that at this early stage it's worth pointing out anything that strikes us as odd. And that did.

I will not argue with second line, it's generally helpful to town to scrutinize any strangeness

To paraphrase what he is saying: "Ok, Ok, yeah point out any strangeness. It's all good OE. Good job, but just look elsewhere. Just poor wording on my part...."

In fact, TS goes on to act strangely around hammer time. He never hammers, never votes, despite the majority of people deciding, meh, Lio needs to go. That is, imao, more suspicious than hammering. Why so hesitant? On day 1? So finally the below quotes demonstrate this almost pathologic desire not to hammer, to the point of looking for someone else to do it. Read on:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

is't time for me to leave - anybody committed to being here to place the vote?

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 10 October 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

I committed to being here. Bout all I can do TS.

lovely, but you already voted

I don't see the point in waiting much longer

Olar Ethil, on 10 October 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I'm here.

Vote Liosan

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

well, alright

I'm off

And with the train secure, he leaves.

Vote Tulas Shorn.

For the most part, I like your analysis. I like your connections between TS and Tellan. However, I don't understand why, if TS was scum, he would be hesitant to vote for someone who he knew was innocent, particularly if it was towards the end of the day, when it becomes neccesary for a hammer vote to get the lynch. I expect it would be more likely that TS would be happy to vote for someone who was innocent, particularly because at that point all he would need to justify hammering would be the claim that the lynch was inevitable and no further information was forthcoming.

[Sorrit]

Fener, on 11 October 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

So here is the main issue I have with Sorrit:

Sorrit, on 09 October 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

Say for example your a thief. You creep into someone's house and start packing your bag full of their items. Out of thin air you hear a noise. It is someone saying, "what are you doing?". The natural response would be to freeze. In your head your thinking, "Shit, what do I do? What do I say?".


Karosis comes on and says what he says. Spite jokingly put on his vote. Karosis Freezes. It's very early in the day and I know Karosis is going to come on and laugh it off but i'm going to keep my eye on him. I know the killers would not want to get attention this early and that is why I think he froze. He doesn't know how to respond and he is waiting for others to take up the mantle. Then he can come on and join in the fun again. Nothing big but for now i'll add a bit of pressure too..


Vote Karosis

This is his first post. Karosis has "frozen" (in the opening minutes of the game, when all the previous posts had been "First!"), and so Sorrit is going to keep an eye on him. Why? He's jumping on the back of a joke vote, but it's not a joke vote. He's adding pressure, but there is no pressure to begin with.

Then he returns later with a justification for his vote:

Sorrit, on 09 October 2012 - 08:48 PM, said:

OMg Lolz!

Spite could just as well have been a signal to Karosis. The fact that it came early would make us doubt it was signalling but JLV did it in one post two games back so it is possible. As it stands Spite's vote was a joke or a signal, mine was semi serious, post provoking game starting. No ones getting it easy this game so why Spites vote? He could have voted any of the first few posters so why Karosis? Why did it take so long for Karosis to reply, "what's up ma bitches", sounds like someone who wants to talk or discuss things yet when a vote came his way he said nothing. It's nothing huge but something to keep an eye on. Thirdly or this is my third point why not add to a vote? I'm not afraid to ruffle some feathers, maybe Spites vote is so Shit we look elsewhere day one, maybe he's the symp bringing focus on Karosis or maybe he's the symp signalling Karosis which brings me back to Spite, why Karosis in the first place?

Karosis says later that he was running errands. There is nothing to suggest that Karosis has frozen rather than is simply away from his computer. I find it really strange that Sorrit has defended his vote here, and then changes his vote later to an OMGUS vote. This suggests that Sorrit is not particularly worried about where his vote is going.

The other thing I found odd was this later vote from Spite.

Spite, on 10 October 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Korvalain


Gawd, those posts you just made smack of "look at me be helpful and say tsk tsk calm down you hotheads"

There's nothing wrong with bringing a reasonable edge into the game, but on day one there really isn't "reason", just the same old arguments that pop up every game.

I've never understood the desire to lynch off "reasonable" players with no other reason than "because they are being reasonable". It's just a dumb excuse. And Spite's justification for his vote is that there is no reason on day one? That's stupid. If you want to have discussions that aren't the same as every other day one argument, why are you voting for the one least likely to get involved in those discussions?

Spite's vote irritates me, but it's not enough to warrant anything more than suspicion. It's just something I'll be keeping an eye on.

Sorrit's behaviour, on the other hand, seems pretty scummy to me.

Posted a case at the same time as yours what do you think? I'm not clouded as to just thinking about Karosis but I don't like that first post by Spite. If you look at the way Meanas acts towards Karosis then I think you'd find them suspicous

[Meanas]

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Had a good read up and formed some theories.

Spite (symp) Karosis and Meanas killers. Possibly.



Why?


I'll go through it now. The Spite early vote I still think was signalling. I have always thought it was a signal. Meanas immediately calls it a bogus case. Meanas then finds Lio suspicious and attributes this behaviour to Karosis getting a vote. yet he doesn't find Karosis suspicious. He goes on to say there might be a connection between Spite and I but leaves out Karosis.

Emur questions Spite and I somewhat and is night killed. Easy for the killers to point some fingers my way.

Karosis' posts do nothing to make me think he could be not a killer. He did nothing yesterday that helped town significantly.

Meanas then finds Tellan suspicious and agrees with Karosis to do so. Yet Meanas then goes on to add more pressure on Liosan.

Then the key to yesterday in my opinion was Spite removing his vote off of Karosis. It made him a lesser train. Classic that although Spite brought him up first his vote was never going to end up on Karosis.

After this Meanas proceeds to vote for Liosan. For what reason?

Quote

In fact, given that nothing more interesting has popped up (though I'm keeping my eye on Tellan. I've never yet seen scum actually post the way he is, but that could make it a perfect cover for scum).

For now, seeing as we're approaching end of day (we're what, like 4-5 hours off?)

vote Liosan

Spite joins the train a little later.

Karosis doesn't even have to switch. He is on a seperate train to Meanas which is what scum would want to do.



I am convinced that one of Karosis/Meanas is scum.



Going off that Meanas was "suspicious" of Tellan yesterday but follows his vote today on gut alone says a lot. So therefore



Vote Meanas

Heh, cause this isn't OMGUS at all.

[Meanas]

Path-Shaper, on 11 October 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

it actually comes from the tv show Kung Fu. look it up.

jlv

Good call JLV - brain fart on my part, I guess. Dunno why I thought Yoda uses it for Luke.

[Sorrit]

Meanas, on 11 October 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Had a good read up and formed some theories.

Spite (symp) Karosis and Meanas killers. Possibly.



Why?


I'll go through it now. The Spite early vote I still think was signalling. I have always thought it was a signal. Meanas immediately calls it a bogus case. Meanas then finds Lio suspicious and attributes this behaviour to Karosis getting a vote. yet he doesn't find Karosis suspicious. He goes on to say there might be a connection between Spite and I but leaves out Karosis.

Emur questions Spite and I somewhat and is night killed. Easy for the killers to point some fingers my way.

Karosis' posts do nothing to make me think he could be not a killer. He did nothing yesterday that helped town significantly.

Meanas then finds Tellan suspicious and agrees with Karosis to do so. Yet Meanas then goes on to add more pressure on Liosan.

Then the key to yesterday in my opinion was Spite removing his vote off of Karosis. It made him a lesser train. Classic that although Spite brought him up first his vote was never going to end up on Karosis.

After this Meanas proceeds to vote for Liosan. For what reason?

Quote

In fact, given that nothing more interesting has popped up (though I'm keeping my eye on Tellan. I've never yet seen scum actually post the way he is, but that could make it a perfect cover for scum).

For now, seeing as we're approaching end of day (we're what, like 4-5 hours off?)

vote Liosan

Spite joins the train a little later.

Karosis doesn't even have to switch. He is on a seperate train to Meanas which is what scum would want to do.



I am convinced that one of Karosis/Meanas is scum.



Going off that Meanas was "suspicious" of Tellan yesterday but follows his vote today on gut alone says a lot. So therefore



Vote Meanas

Heh, cause this isn't OMGUS at all.

We'll see what other people think. You cannot just dismiss the case as OMGUS when it is there for all to see.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 23 hours and 29 minutes remaining
11 Players still alive: Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korvalain, Meanas, Olar Ethi, Osseric, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan, Tulas Shorn

6 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Tulas Shorn ( Korvalain, Galain )
2 Votes for Sorrit ( Tellan, Meanas )
1 Vote for Meanas ( Sorrit )

Players not voted: Fener, Karosis, Olar Ethi, Osseric, Spite, Tulas Shorn

[Fener]

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Had a good read up and formed some theories.

Spite (symp) Karosis and Meanas killers. Possibly.



Why?


I'll go through it now. The Spite early vote I still think was signalling. I have always thought it was a signal. Meanas immediately calls it a bogus case. Meanas then finds Lio suspicious and attributes this behaviour to Karosis getting a vote. yet he doesn't find Karosis suspicious. He goes on to say there might be a connection between Spite and I but leaves out Karosis.

Emur questions Spite and I somewhat and is night killed. Easy for the killers to point some fingers my way.

Karosis' posts do nothing to make me think he could be not a killer. He did nothing yesterday that helped town significantly.

Meanas then finds Tellan suspicious and agrees with Karosis to do so. Yet Meanas then goes on to add more pressure on Liosan.

Then the key to yesterday in my opinion was Spite removing his vote off of Karosis. It made him a lesser train. Classic that although Spite brought him up first his vote was never going to end up on Karosis.

After this Meanas proceeds to vote for Liosan. For what reason?

Quote

In fact, given that nothing more interesting has popped up (though I'm keeping my eye on Tellan. I've never yet seen scum actually post the way he is, but that could make it a perfect cover for scum).

For now, seeing as we're approaching end of day (we're what, like 4-5 hours off?)

vote Liosan

Spite joins the train a little later.

Karosis doesn't even have to switch. He is on a seperate train to Meanas which is what scum would want to do.



I am convinced that one of Karosis/Meanas is scum.



Going off that Meanas was "suspicious" of Tellan yesterday but follows his vote today on gut alone says a lot. So therefore



Vote Meanas

Based simply on his own merits, I wouldn't say Karosis' actions paint him as scum. It could be siad that he is flying under the radar, but that is not something that is specific to scum. It is interesting that Karosis has been mostly left out of signalling discussions, but Meanas is not the only one to do that. Galain was the first to bring up signalling, and specifically discounted the possibility that the signalling was aimed at Karosis. I do think it could be significant that Meanas attacks Lio for spreading suspicion of signalling cases, and not Galain.

I'm also not seeing where Meanas and Karosis agree that Tellan is suspicious.

From what I can see, your whole case is based on the idea that Spite's initial vote was a signal. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, but I haven't seen anything else to suggest that Spite is a symp. If the initial vote was simply a joke, it would make sense that Spite would remove it to jump on the main train.

[Fener]

Meanas, on 11 October 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Had a good read up and formed some theories.

Spite (symp) Karosis and Meanas killers. Possibly.



Why?


I'll go through it now. The Spite early vote I still think was signalling. I have always thought it was a signal. Meanas immediately calls it a bogus case. Meanas then finds Lio suspicious and attributes this behaviour to Karosis getting a vote. yet he doesn't find Karosis suspicious. He goes on to say there might be a connection between Spite and I but leaves out Karosis.

Emur questions Spite and I somewhat and is night killed. Easy for the killers to point some fingers my way.

Karosis' posts do nothing to make me think he could be not a killer. He did nothing yesterday that helped town significantly.

Meanas then finds Tellan suspicious and agrees with Karosis to do so. Yet Meanas then goes on to add more pressure on Liosan.

Then the key to yesterday in my opinion was Spite removing his vote off of Karosis. It made him a lesser train. Classic that although Spite brought him up first his vote was never going to end up on Karosis.

After this Meanas proceeds to vote for Liosan. For what reason?

Quote

In fact, given that nothing more interesting has popped up (though I'm keeping my eye on Tellan. I've never yet seen scum actually post the way he is, but that could make it a perfect cover for scum).

For now, seeing as we're approaching end of day (we're what, like 4-5 hours off?)

vote Liosan

Spite joins the train a little later.

Karosis doesn't even have to switch. He is on a seperate train to Meanas which is what scum would want to do.



I am convinced that one of Karosis/Meanas is scum.



Going off that Meanas was "suspicious" of Tellan yesterday but follows his vote today on gut alone says a lot. So therefore



Vote Meanas

Heh, cause this isn't OMGUS at all.

On the other hand, this kind of thing does not fill me with confidence. You can still comment on the case, even while acknowledging that it may be motivated by OMGUS.

[Tulas Shorn]

trying to catch up

not too surprised about Lio, we usually get an inno on Day 1 no matter what. I have seen no connections to why Emurlahn was hit, I guess that's WIFOM anyway

[Meanas]

Sorrit spent a good chunk of yesterday bitching about low posters, but the moment that Tellan makes a comment about how voting off the low posters never works anyway, he does this:

Sorrit, on 10 October 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

REMOVE VOTE


VOTE TELLAN

OMGUS!

Voting Tellan on an OMGUS case. He then does NOTHING for six whole hours. He admitted that he had no backup for this case except for the OMGUS, which is a lame reason to vote someone, really. (I’ll note that he has done it again today against me the moment I put some pressure on him).

Anyway, after the six hours he pops on and says the following:

Sorrit, on 10 October 2012 - 09:13 PM, said:

I'm going to bed so will not be around for resolution. Hmm there is not much to go on. I'll do one more read before placing Mg vote...

…but never actually moves his vote. He tried to apologize today, to downplay how suspicious this is, but I don’t buy it. At this point there were 3 votes on Liosan, 2 votes on Tellan and a vote on Korv and Sorrit each. The Tellan train wasn’t really going anywhere, enough people had said on thread that they didn’t really believe that Tellan was scum for him to easily deduce that it would probably be a stalled train, so he should have at least moved his vote to Liosan, don’t you think? Except maybe he didn’t want to be seen as ‘ensuring the Lio lynch,’ a 4th vote would certainly have made Liosan the lynch du jour.

He then goes to bed, the Lio lynch goes down, and Emu is NK’d. Not much information to be had in all of that, really. And then, he comes on says:

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 09:10 AM, said:

I'm around. I didn't lay a vote down because I wasn't sure on who to go for and I already had a vote on Tellan which I was more than happy with

Trying to cover his ass. He didn’t want to be seen to ensure the lynch of a townie by moving his vote, and then he comes and covers his ass today to make it look like he did it because he was happy with his Tellan vote, which was, by his own admission, a vote for an OMGUS case. Sloppy, and not very good. This is why I think Sorrit is scum. I apologize for taking so long to get this on thread, but it’s been a bit of a hectic morning here at work. Lunch break’s nearly over, so will be going back to work, but I should have time to play a bit more this afternoon. And if all else fails, I’ll participate more after work.

[Meanas]

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Had a good read up and formed some theories.

Spite (symp) Karosis and Meanas killers. Possibly.

Why?


I'll go through it now. The Spite early vote I still think was signalling. The first vote of the game, an obviously joke vote, is a signal? To Karosis you think? In all the M&P games I have played, I have always been told that the last thing that a symp wants to do is to so overtly signal to their masters. I think it was exactly what it was, a joke vote. I think if anyone was signalling, it was you for jumping on the joke vote. You were showing Spite that you're HIS symp, if anything. I have always thought it was a signal. Meanas immediately calls it a bogus case. Meanas then finds Lio suspicious and attributes this behaviour to Karosis getting a vote. yet he doesn't find Karosis suspicious. He goes on to say there might be a connection between Spite and I but leaves out Karosis. Karosis hasn't yet done anything that has pinged my scumdar. People voting for him for nothing doesn't mean that he's scum. It means the people voting for him for nothing are probably scum trying to make it seem like they're signalling him or something. Why would I comment on Karosis when he hasn't done anything I deem terribly suspicious?

Emur questions Spite and I somewhat and is night killed. Easy for the killers to point some fingers my way.

Karosis' posts do nothing to make me think he could be not a killer. He did nothing yesterday that helped town significantly. Neither did you. Your vote on Tellan was based on an OMGUS case.

Meanas then finds Tellan suspicious and agrees with Karosis to do so. I wouldn't say I found Tellan terribly suspicious. I think that Tellan's play is not generally scum behaviour, but that it could be possible for clever scum to hide behind that. Yet Meanas then goes on to add more pressure on Liosan. I spent most of yesterday arguing with Liosan and pointing out how I think he's scummy and arguing with him. I don't see why it's such a big surprise that I voted for him.

Then the key to yesterday in my opinion was Spite removing his vote off of Karosis. It made him a lesser train. Classic that although Spite brought him up first his vote was never going to end up on Karosis. Geez, shocker that a joke vote got moved. Welcome to Day 1 of Mafia.

After this Meanas proceeds to vote for Liosan. For what reason?

Quote

In fact, given that nothing more interesting has popped up (though I'm keeping my eye on Tellan. I've never yet seen scum actually post the way he is, but that could make it a perfect cover for scum).

For now, seeing as we're approaching end of day (we're what, like 4-5 hours off?)

vote Liosan

Spite joins the train a little later.

Karosis doesn't even have to switch. He is on a seperate train to Meanas which is what scum would want to do.



I am convinced that one of Karosis/Meanas is scum.



Going off that Meanas was "suspicious" of Tellan yesterday but follows his vote today on gut alone says a lot. So therefore



Vote Meanas

See above in red for some comments.

I just want to add that this whole Meanas is suspicious of Tellan thing comes from this:

Meanas, on 10 October 2012 - 02:47 AM, said:

Karosis, on 10 October 2012 - 02:11 AM, said:

Yeah, we're not even halfway through day 1 and tellan puts me at almost half the votes needed to lynch, in his First post

I agree, this is even more suspicious than Liosan's many attempted cases.

It WAS suspicious that Tellan brought someone to nearly halfway to lynch so early in the day. I kept my eye on him, he dissuaded me of my suspicions, and I felt that Liosan was acting much more suspicious. At least I took the time, yesterday, to make a decent case for my vote against Liosan, rather than just OMGUS. Again, I took the time today to make a case against you, but you basically put together a bunch of bullshit and called it a case. Another OMGUS.

Edit: changed Yellow text to Red text.

This post has been edited by Meanas: 11 October 2012 - 04:56 PM

[Sorrit]

I'll respond tomorrow when I've got access to a computer. Trying to quote and reply is tough from the phone. Tellan was and still is a viable lynch target with his play so far so I don't know what he did to appease your distrust of him. You follow him on the vote today but you were suspicious of him yesterday. You purposefully omitted Karosis' name from your posts regarding the votes from Spite and I. You also think that a killer wouldvote the way I did first of all. If you do lynch me today I'll laugh my arse off in spoiler heaven with how stupid everyone is for listening to you.

[Meanas]

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

I'll respond tomorrow when I've got access to a computer. Trying to quote and reply is tough from the phone. Tellan was and still is a viable lynch target with his play so far so I don't know what he did to appease your distrust of him. You follow him on the vote today but you were suspicious of him yesterday. You purposefully omitted Karosis' name from your posts regarding the votes from Spite and I. You also think that a killer wouldvote the way I did first of all. If you do lynch me today I'll laugh my arse off in spoiler heaven with how stupid everyone is for listening to you.

So basically, you're refuting my refutation of your accusations with the exact same accusations that you had originally made. Did you not READ my post?

[Meanas]

Sorrit, on 11 October 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

I'll respond tomorrow when I've got access to a computer. Trying to quote and reply is tough from the phone. Tellan was and still is a viable lynch target with his play so far so I don't know what he did to appease your distrust of him. You follow him on the vote today but you were suspicious of him yesterday. You purposefully omitted Karosis' name from your posts regarding the votes from Spite and I. You also think that a killer wouldvote the way I did first of all. If you do lynch me today I'll laugh my arse off in spoiler heaven with how stupid everyone is for listening to you.

Not to mention that line - classic scum trying to make it look like they're not scum.

[Tulas Shorn]

Going to quickly reply to this. My replies will be in blue

Korvalain, on 11 October 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Ok, just finished a reread of day 1. A couple of things and people jumped out at me that warrant more scrutiny, but to summarize before I begin, the key one that I'm suspicious of is Tulas Shorn. I'll explain why in just a sec.

First of all, here is the essence of what is concerning about Karo:

Karosis, on 09 October 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

Well then. Two votes on me while running errands. I see all of your points. Its day 1, but i find it interesting that spite added a pressure vite to a joke vote. Trying to start a train to lynch a townie? Maybe, maybe not. You could just be a townie trying to generate discussion, which i am also trying to do.

This is all too conciliatory, trying to not be offensive, stepping on egg shells, etc. It's the start of the game, and yet Karo is already cagey. Hiding something?



The next observation was done by Fener:

Fener, on 10 October 2012 - 02:30 AM, said:

I'm here!

And I'm seeing some pretty latent anger. I know it's been a long wait between Mafia games, but our fix is here now! No need to be grumpy!

To some extent I see the majority of the posts and voting as trying to progress the game, which is great, and difficult to do this early in the game, when everyone wants to be spamming and joke-voting. But I'm really confused by Tellan's post and vote. He's not contributing to discussion, and he isn't joke voting. There is no reason for him to be adding a pressure vote when there are already two votes on Karosis, and he hasn't given that as justification in any case.

To come in with a vote in your first post, and then not justify it, seems so off to me.

This hit the nail on the head. Why is Tellan creating a train on his first post early in day 1? And when people call him on it, he goes nuclear with his penis. My evaluation is he tries to get a vote moving on Karo, realizes people aren't entirely convinced that the Karo case is worthwhile, and backpedals like hell, throwing out random craziness to throw people off the sent (as demonstrated by this quote):

Tellan, on 10 October 2012 - 02:52 AM, said:

I agree with everything...

Baaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!


Here is a penis shooting at you

==================D~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Pew pew....nothing to discuss and nothing to contribute. Early day one trains are fun

ALL ABOARD!!!!

DING DING!

And this technique works, as Tulas seems to demonstrate with the following post:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

3rd time on here this AM, keep getting interrupted

Tellan is awfully slapdash, don't suspect him now, could be a ruse I suppose

gonna go back

And that neatly brings me to TS. First of all, this above post bothers me. TS writes off Tellan, quickly, just because of a syphilitic penis. Why? Does TS know something about Tellan we don't? Is TS trying to push people into discounting Tellan?

not because of the penis, but the play style is awfully careless for scum, unless a very bold approach - of course I don't know anything; there was no pushing for anything, I merely state my opinion

But then TS says he'll vote for Sorrit if Tellan will just shut up. Which gets called out as suspicious by OE. And TS gets prickly over this call-out.

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

you're making up that it's somehow ominous instead of the sarcasm that it was intended to be

Ok, people get snarky about being called out all the time (looks at Lio ). But I feel this is a subtle slip up on TS's part. He's a little more twitchy than the typical RI (excepting Lio). In fact, he tries to amend his snappishness with the following in red:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 10 October 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

you're making up that it's somehow ominous instead of the sarcasm that it was intended to be

She said, he said. Can't be proven either way now. But I would have loved it if Tellan had come back and just said, 'yeah, ok, do that then', just to see if you actually would have.

I stand by the fact that at this early stage it's worth pointing out anything that strikes us as odd. And that did.

I will not argue with second line, it's generally helpful to town to scrutinize any strangeness

It annoyed me. OE made a valid point about due diligence, which I agree with. Also, I don't like to play in a confrontational manner


To paraphrase what he is saying: "Ok, Ok, yeah point out any strangeness. It's all good OE. Good job, but just look elsewhere. Just poor wording on my part...."

In fact, TS goes on to act strangely around hammer time. He never hammers, never votes, despite the majority of people deciding, meh, Lio needs to go. That is, imao, more suspicious than hammering. Why so hesitant? On day 1? So finally the below quotes demonstrate this almost pathologic desire not to hammer, to the point of looking for someone else to do it. Read on:

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 11:38 PM, said:

is't time for me to leave - anybody committed to being here to place the vote?

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 11:44 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 10 October 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

I committed to being here. Bout all I can do TS.

lovely, but you already voted

I don't see the point in waiting much longer

Olar Ethil, on 10 October 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I'm here.

Vote Liosan

Tulas Shorn, on 10 October 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

well, alright

I'm off

And with the train secure, he leaves.

Vote Tulas Shorn.

I made sure the lynch would not fail before leaving. I was not convinced enough to hammer or I would have done so earlier, but I would not refuse my vote, as I believe generally we have to proceed. You know as well as I do almost-lynches always cloud the next day. And "pathological desire not to hammer"?? Very dramatic.

[Osseric]

Awesome, looks like the thread really picked up.

I think that based on the case against TS he's more sympish than scum. Worth looking into for sure but I don't believe lynching him will tell us much.

I'm still most suspicious of sorrit.