[Werthead]

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Just playing through 2 a second time so that I can import this timeline to Inquisition. I personally feel that 2 was unfairly panned - it's a good game.

Agreed. Well, neither game are great, but both are okay-to-above average. In fact, I found AWAKENINGS to be by far the best bit of the franchise to date (not playing DA3 until the price drops to something sane). But DA:O and DA2 kind of mirror each other in their issues: 1 has a poor story, weak characters (apart maybe from Morrigan), bad voice acting (definitely apart from Morrigan) but a really big world and just-about-acceptable combat (certainly not great, certainly not compared to the BG series which DA was supposed to be riffing off and has never even come close). DA2 has a better story, reasonable characters, good voice acting but a really tiny, repetitive world and downright horrendous characters.

Of the two I might actually nose DA2 ahead because at 24 hours it didn't outstay its welcome. At 50 hours, most of which was taken up by beyond-awful fetch quests and grinding combat, DA:O definitely did.

AWAKENINGS actually married the better gameplay of the first game with the better storytelling of the second and ended up being stronger than either as a result.

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Rushed to production-Re-used art, maps and assets in general (This one is big! it can't be ignored. They abused our customer loyalty)

Electronic Arts did. BioWare did not. Or at least not on purpose.

DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS went into production in 2004, after the PC version of KotOR was completed. This is before they really got going on MASS EFFECT and JADE EMPIRE (massively underrated) was just entering full-time production. It was a huge, huge game that BioWare spent five years producing. The budget has never been disclosed but it was enormous. In fact, it was so big that if JADE EMPIRE hadn't done okay, MASS EFFECT been a massive hit and the OLD REPUBLIC deal landed in the middle there, BioWare might have been in trouble.

EA then took over BioWare, took one look at the budget for this PC-only RPG and said, "Err, no." They mandated the (weak-assed) console ports of DA:O and then ordered a quickie, action-focused sequel on a very tight budget (by EA standards, anyway) to help alleviate the budget woes from the first game.

Since BioWare was now a subsidiary of EA, they had no choice but to comply. Even then, some didn't: the lead designer of DA:O quit in disgust and has since said that the direction taken by DA2 and 3 is not what BioWare had been planning for the franchise (the origins thing would have been in every game, and the Warden may have carried over from game to game like Shepard) pre-EA.

When you consider that DA2 was never meant to exist, was made with a proverbial gun to the head of the company and had nothing like the budget and time of the first game (seriously, it was made in less than one-fifth of the time), DA2 actually turned out pretty well. EA should be shot for what they did to it, sure, but BioWare made the best of a bad situation.

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Story was lacking

I disagree with this. The story in DA2 had some dodgy bits of plotting but I found it head and shoulders above DA:O's, which was the exact same structure BioWare had used since BG1 (linear opening, big semi-open world choice bit in the middle that goes on for a bit too long, linear finish, mildly dissatisfying boss fight). DA2 couldn't do that with the limited locations and dev time, so it basically turned into fantasy BABYLON 5 (the whole world comes to Kirkwall and the struggles of the continent play out in microcosm there instead) which was a really inspired move. The smaller location and more limited locations also meant a tighter focus on several core conflicts (the elves, qunari, the templar/mage stuff and the rather underwhelming Deep Roads expedition) rather than the often random-feeling sprawl of the first game.

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Interaction with companions was lacking - The best you could do was read about them in text

Not sure about this. They 'borrowed' the loyalty mission stuff from MASS EFFECT 2, which meant to see all the quests you had to do missions with all the characters. DA1 never really encouraged this so I left most of the team benched for the whole game (which backfired when it turned out that only Morrigan and Alistair had anything really to do with the resolution to the story, making using any other character feel superfluous). This encouraged interacting with everyone much more than the first game, as there was no gameplay or story benefit to doing so.

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The story was meant to be grey but was black and white. No matter how much you help the mages they end up being the danger everyone wars about! Made me feel like an ass

This was a big mistake, I agree. However, I did much prefer the fact that in DA2 you, despite being the hero, made all of the situations worse and pretty much everyone was a varying degree of arsehole. It wasn't THE WITCHER, but it was a nice change from the heroic BS of most fantasy RPGs.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 19 November 2014 - 12:05 AM

[Maark Abbott]

You know, I actually must be the only guy who liked the characters in DA2. Varric and Sarcastic Hawke had the banter going. Bethany and Carver were sort of annoying... Isabela and Merrill had some great banter. I prefer 2 to Origins, no question. And as you've said, the fact that everyone was an arse is more of a mirror on real life.

[Cause]

Werthead, on 19 November 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

Electronic Arts did. BioWare did not. Or at least not on purpose.

DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS went into production in 2004, after the PC version of KotOR was completed. This is before they really got going on MASS EFFECT and JADE EMPIRE (massively underrated) was just entering full-time production. It was a huge, huge game that BioWare spent five years producing. The budget has never been disclosed but it was enormous. In fact, it was so big that if JADE EMPIRE hadn't done okay, MASS EFFECT been a massive hit and the OLD REPUBLIC deal landed in the middle there, BioWare might have been in trouble.

EA then took over BioWare, took one look at the budget for this PC-only RPG and said, "Err, no." They mandated the (weak-assed) console ports of DA:O and then ordered a quickie, action-focused sequel on a very tight budget (by EA standards, anyway) to help alleviate the budget woes from the first game.

Since BioWare was now a subsidiary of EA, they had no choice but to comply. Even then, some didn't: the lead designer of DA:O quit in disgust and has since said that the direction taken by DA2 and 3 is not what BioWare had been planning for the franchise (the origins thing would have been in every game, and the Warden may have carried over from game to game like Shepard) pre-EA.

When you consider that DA2 was never meant to exist, was made with a proverbial gun to the head of the company and had nothing like the budget and time of the first game (seriously, it was made in less than one-fifth of the time), DA2 actually turned out pretty well. EA should be shot for what they did to it, sure, but BioWare made the best of a bad situation.

Whoever was responsible it was criminal

[Obdigore]

Cause, on 19 November 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Werthead, on 19 November 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

Electronic Arts did. BioWare did not. Or at least not on purpose.

DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS went into production in 2004, after the PC version of KotOR was completed. This is before they really got going on MASS EFFECT and JADE EMPIRE (massively underrated) was just entering full-time production. It was a huge, huge game that BioWare spent five years producing. The budget has never been disclosed but it was enormous. In fact, it was so big that if JADE EMPIRE hadn't done okay, MASS EFFECT been a massive hit and the OLD REPUBLIC deal landed in the middle there, BioWare might have been in trouble.

EA then took over BioWare, took one look at the budget for this PC-only RPG and said, "Err, no." They mandated the (weak-assed) console ports of DA:O and then ordered a quickie, action-focused sequel on a very tight budget (by EA standards, anyway) to help alleviate the budget woes from the first game.

Since BioWare was now a subsidiary of EA, they had no choice but to comply. Even then, some didn't: the lead designer of DA:O quit in disgust and has since said that the direction taken by DA2 and 3 is not what BioWare had been planning for the franchise (the origins thing would have been in every game, and the Warden may have carried over from game to game like Shepard) pre-EA.

When you consider that DA2 was never meant to exist, was made with a proverbial gun to the head of the company and had nothing like the budget and time of the first game (seriously, it was made in less than one-fifth of the time), DA2 actually turned out pretty well. EA should be shot for what they did to it, sure, but BioWare made the best of a bad situation.

Whoever was responsible it was criminal

Maybe you just whine too much?

Good job on giving in to that whole internet hate/whine machine though, really making your parents proud.

Back on topic of DA3: Inquisition...

Got a couple hours into it last night. Enjoying it so far. Looks like the world is absolutely huge. The first zone you can actually explore seems bigger, with more stuff to do, then the entire DA2 world.

The story is... well right now it seems stupid as shit, but maybe things will make sense as I uncover more of it. Also, I can feel the urge coming on to complete everything in every zone...

[Maark Abbott]

As a Tealord, and thus unable to obtain the goods until Friday, might I request spoiler tags be used when discussing plot points in detail?

General question: How's combat?

[Obdigore]

I like it. The mage so far plays much like the DA2 combat, but they went through and showed how you can alter your uncontrolled peoples' actions, as well as switching to tactical mode where you can give orders to everyone and move combat forward by holding a button, and then when you want it to stop you let go and give orders.

Seems like a good choice so that at easy/normal you can do the 'action' game, then for those that thirst for tactical combat they can but the difficulty up higher and go 'round by round'.

[Cause]

Obdigore, on 19 November 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Maybe you just whine too much?

Good job on giving in to that whole internet hate/whine machine though, really making your parents proud.

Back on topic of DA3: Inquisition...

Got a couple hours into it last night. Enjoying it so far. Looks like the world is absolutely huge. The first zone you can actually explore seems bigger, with more stuff to do, then the entire DA2 world.

The story is... well right now it seems stupid as shit, but maybe things will make sense as I uncover more of it. Also, I can feel the urge coming on to complete everything in every zone...

Apologies I thought I was on an internet forum

[Imperial Historian]

So anyone else got this for PC? I got it and played it for an hour or so, and from what I saw the game has potential storyline wise, but the control system felt really clunky to the point I quit because I was getting annoyed with it. I suppose it might get better once I'm used to it but it still seems strange, looting is frustrating, it's incredibly easy to get the camera in an idiotic position during combat, and the way the system is set up of you controlling the lead character and everyone else follows you makes playing a non-tank frustrating as you will inevitably enter combat first and everyone charges at you (yes I know you can control other characters, but I designed a mage character because I want to play as one not a fighter!) . The tactical view screen also doesn't zoom out nearly enough.

[Maark Abbott]

I've picked it up and will be playing on 360 tomorrow.

To be honest IH, it's always been that way throughout the series. The best thing to do is just keep an eye out for mobs, or if you're entering an area where it seems attack is likely, have the tank move up first (move command) - that way, any mobs will aggro onto them first. I tend to play squishy so this tends to work pretty well.

I've got four beers, a box of nachos, a pizza and thirteen hours set aside for this game. I have great expectations.

[Tru]

To start off: I totally diagree with much of what Werthead said above..sorry, just my take is that DA-O is superior..I did not dislike DA2, I actually liked it in the sense that combat, once I modded out the stupid "consolesque" ground circles for targeted enemies, was very fun to micro manage...ie: freeze, spin camera angle, switch characters, give them a set of attack commands, rinse and repeat, then watch your chess like decisions wreak havok...DA2 was far to linear, and you could not explore or interact with anything. The characters, not all, but most, were more annoying. The male mage, and the white haired brooding cry baby male elf..could not stand either of them. Note I cannot even recall their names. The best character in DA2 was the dwarf. I find the character acting in Bioware RPG games to be far better than most RPG games, tbh. Does not match the Witcher games perhaps, but blows away anything Bethesda RPG can muster.

Question regarding PC gameplay...I've read rather bad reviews from PC gamers that the UI and combat controls are far to "made exclusively for console." Thoughts?

I agree about the price being 10.00 too high...I've only found a Deluxe edition for 69.00 on Amazon, is the Steam version the same price? and why is there only a deluxe version? I assume the deluxe version comes with something truly spectacular like a weapon and armor set, or maybe an amulet that are cool until you play for 15 minutes and discard it because you found something better? I may actually wait this one out till Christmas so I can justify the expense with gift cards.

[Maark Abbott]

To be fair most games will be geared towards consoles now. PC gaming, whilst still awesome, is becoming more and more niche as consoles spread into genres they'd otherwise have avoided.

[Obdigore]

Tru, on 21 November 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

To start off: I totally diagree with much of what Werthead said above..sorry, just my take is that DA-O is superior..I did not dislike DA2, I actually liked it in the sense that combat, once I modded out the stupid "consolesque" ground circles for targeted enemies, was very fun to micro manage...ie: freeze, spin camera angle, switch characters, give them a set of attack commands, rinse and repeat, then watch your chess like decisions wreak havok...DA2 was far to linear, and you could not explore or interact with anything. The characters, not all, but most, were more annoying. The male mage, and the white haired brooding cry baby male elf..could not stand either of them. Note I cannot even recall their names. The best character in DA2 was the dwarf. I find the character acting in Bioware RPG games to be far better than most RPG games, tbh. Does not match the Witcher games perhaps, but blows away anything Bethesda RPG can muster.

I found the combat in DA2 to be more fun. But then I don't play the dragon age games on the 'insane' setting and need to scrutinize every move of every unit. If I want that I'll go play chess or the TW series.

My big problem with DA2 was the reused environments. It wasn't large, it wasn't fun, and jumping time ahead a couple times SO you could reuse the same stuff probably got whoever thought of it a nice bonus, but I hated it.

I thought the companions of DA2 were on the same level as those in DA1. Some were well done, some were not. I liked the story more in DA2 than DA1, I just wished they actually spread it out in different areas to explore.

I agree through, the pirate lady and the dwarf were the best companions in DA2, especially their ambient talking when both are in your party. And the red-headed guard lady too. That was my party setup through the whole thing, so I was a healing mage and I just kept them alive while they ran around killing things.

So far in DA:I the dwarf is back (as are the two who are interrogating him for the meta-story of DA2's story). I feel like I'm just scratching the surface but wont have a lot of play time.

(I'm a mighty xbox user, so I can't comment on how the PC controls fare, that said you could always hook up your favorite game controller to your PC and play it that way. I know lots of people who do that for these kinds of games, so they can get the processing (graphics) of their PC with the ease of a controller.)

[Mentalist]

Maark, on 21 November 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

I've picked it up and will be playing on 360 tomorrow.To be honest IH, it's always been that way throughout the series. The best thing to do is just keep an eye out for mobs, or if you're entering an area where it seems attack is likely, have the tank move up first (move command) - that way, any mobs will aggro onto them first. I tend to play squishy so this tends to work pretty well.I've got four beers, a box of nachos, a pizza and thirteen hours set aside for this game. I have great expectations.

In DA:O you had an option to turn off people following you. I did that a lot, b/c my char was a rogue with maxed stealth and I used him to sneak ahead and scout the map. There was also an exploit I used in the dungeon under the Ogrimmar slums, where I'd sneak him past enemies (looting every container in the process), then find a safe nook where my char would go out of combat mode. If you then tell your party to follow your char, they will teleport to him.

Tru, on 21 November 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

To start off: I totally diagree with much of what Werthead said above..sorry, just my take is that DA-O is superior..I did not dislike DA2, I actually liked it in the sense that combat, once I modded out the stupid "consolesque" ground circles for targeted enemies, was very fun to micro manage...ie: freeze, spin camera angle, switch characters, give them a set of attack commands, rinse and repeat, then watch your chess like decisions wreak havok...DA2 was far to linear, and you could not explore or interact with anything. The characters, not all, but most, were more annoying. The male mage, and the white haired brooding cry baby male elf..could not stand either of them. Note I cannot even recall their names. The best character in DA2 was the dwarf. I find the character acting in Bioware RPG games to be far better than most RPG games, tbh. Does not match the Witcher games perhaps, but blows away anything Bethesda RPG can muster. Question regarding PC gameplay...I've read rather bad reviews from PC gamers that the UI and combat controls are far to "made exclusively for console." Thoughts? I agree about the price being 10.00 too high...I've only found a Deluxe edition for 69.00 on Amazon, is the Steam version the same price? and why is there only a deluxe version? I assume the deluxe version comes with something truly spectacular like a weapon and armor set, or maybe an amulet that are cool until you play for 15 minutes and discard it because you found something better? I may actually wait this one out till Christmas so I can justify the expense with gift cards.

There is no Steam Version. Valve and EA had a major falling out around the time DA2 and BF3 came out, and no other EA game has been on Steam.

Which takes me back to my earlier question: for the Origin versions of DA2 /DAI, is there an always on requirement?

[Mentalist]

Maark, on 21 November 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

To be fair most AAA games will be geared towards consoles now. PC gaming, whilst still awesome, is becoming more and more niche as consoles spread into genres they'd otherwise have avoided.

Fixed that for you,

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 21 November 2014 - 07:36 PM

[Imperial Historian]

I bought my version from cdkeys.com, as the price I saw everywhere else was far to high (£50, as opposed to the <£30 I paid) which is way overpriced for a pc game. Origin also sell the digital only standard edition for £50, and with no steam discounts likely to be coming up I took the plunge on release.

After playing it for a few more hours, the control system got easier to handle, but it still feels like a successor to skyrim (with worse graphics) rather than origins (which I preferred to DA2). It's definitely more console than PC focused. I've also had several crashes so far due to directX issues which will hopefully be patched out.

I'm enjoying it so far though now I've got over my combat issues, don't go in expecting a successor to dragon age origins, this is definitely closer to da2 and skyrim than these, if you enjoyed those games you will enjoy this. I am surprised by the overwhelmingly positive reviews pre-release, it's good but it definitely isn't that good.

[Tru]

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To be fair most games will be geared towards consoles now. PC gaming, whilst still awesome, is becoming more and more niche as consoles spread into genres they'd otherwise have avoided.

I think I read this post in 2005. :-P

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(I'm a mighty xbox user, so I can't comment on how the PC controls fare, that said you could always hook up your favorite game controller to your PC and play it that way. I know lots of people who do that for these kinds of games, so they can get the processing (graphics) of their PC with the ease of a controller.)

Good suggestion, I'd considered that, and have done it before, but then I go 3 years without needingit and give it away..again..so again I would need to go buy one. :-P I do have a gaming mouse and keyboard, so my mouse has like 9 buttons. I could probably make it work better than most, but I suspect the issue is more of a problem with fluidity with directional controls.

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don't go in expecting a successor to dragon age origins, this is definitely closer to da2 and skyrim

This confuses me. The two games you are comparing it too (DA2 and Skyrim) are like night and day they are so different...can you clarify?

[Imperial Historian]

As in more like Dragon Age 2 and skyrim as a first person oriented fantasy rpg, where you click for every attack rather than the more top down party oriented tactical gameplay of dragon age origins where you can set your characters attack patterns and leave them to it, you are constantly in control of one character and must target each attack. Tactics are relatively limited from my playthrough so far (but then I haven't unlocked many abilities and combos). The tactical view could work but it is so zoomed in, it starts to feel pointless as you can't even get the whole party on the screen most times, never mind the enemies. It also feels more like skyrim in that it's introduced some huge openworld style areas to play in.

[jonny_anonymous]

I got it today and played it for a few hours and have been LOVING it

[Garak]

I need to upgrade my CPU before I can play it but one thing a friend told me is to not try and complete Hinterlands in one go. It's a starting area you can return to whenever but it should not be 100 done before you move on. It's alos the least interesting areas due to being the starting.

[Tru]

Imperial Historian, on 22 November 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

As in more like Dragon Age 2 and skyrim as a first person oriented fantasy rpg, where you click for every attack rather than the more top down party oriented tactical gameplay of dragon age origins where you can set your characters attack patterns and leave them to it, you are constantly in control of one character and must target each attack. Tactics are relatively limited from my playthrough so far (but then I haven't unlocked many abilities and combos). The tactical view could work but it is so zoomed in, it starts to feel pointless as you can't even get the whole party on the screen most times, never mind the enemies. It also feels more like skyrim in that it's introduced some huge openworld style areas to play in.

ahh ok. Thanks for the clarification. :-)