[Brujah]

Pairing Number 4 gives us two of my favorite leading ladies in the Malazan Saga.

Please try to decide whom you'd rank higher in our best judge of what we label 'power.'

Basically, if it helps, answer by choosing who you think would win a best of 10 series.

I have a feeling this may be a total blow out, but I wanted to start bringing in some of the lethal ladies.

The Envy - Spite pairing should be interesting.

Vote, and if you have time, say a few words as to why you chose X.

[HoosierDaddy]

Yeah, this one will be close....

[EmperorMagus]

Sorry would beat the shit out of Lostara. A god trained assassin fighting a normal Red blade? I think that's kinda obvious.

[Kanese S's]

Lostara is incredibly capable, and a shadow dancer as well, but Apsalar/Sorry is, as far as combat ability goes, basically a Dancer/Cotillion clone, with some minor changes post-possession. The only way Lostara would stand a chance would be if Cotillion were possessing her, in which case it would be about even. But I assume we're evaluating just Lostara and Apsalar, with neither one getting any extra help.

So yeah, Apsalar. Easily. Barring some bizarre circumstance, which of course, since this is MBotF, is entirely possible.

[the broken]

If neither Shadow Danced, Lostara might have a chance, but in ordinary circumstances, Apsalar.

[Tehol's Trousers]

EmperorMagus, on 24 August 2012 - 08:40 PM, said:

Sorry would beat the shit out of Lostara. A god trained assassin fighting a normal Red blade? I think that's kinda obvious.

a normal Red Blade my ass- Yil's a shadow dancer. I'm Still reading DoD, so can't formulate a sound answer, but i'd put my docks on Lostara

[Tehol's Trousers]

plus Sorry's got a deathwish. Yil lost Pearl, but he was a douche. Cutter was a more profound loss. Plus Sorry lost her youth in a bad way. Not-Apsalar goes Kamikaze on Yil's finely honed dagger, 10 times outta ten.
I guess Yil lost her youth in a bad way too, but less devastating i think

This post has been edited by Tehol's Trousers: 24 August 2012 - 11:00 PM

[Tehol's Trousers]

Skulldeath vs. RedMask... Now that would be a good scrap.
Leoman vs Tavore woulda been a good one too.
Coltaine vs. Iskar Jarak... now I'm just spitballing...
Withal vs. Barathol
Brys vs. Dasseem
Mael vs Kruppe

This post has been edited by Tehol's Trousers: 24 August 2012 - 11:18 PM

[EmperorMagus]

Tehol, on 24 August 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

plus Sorry's got a deathwish. Yil lost Pearl, but he was a douche. Cutter was a more profound loss. Plus Sorry lost her youth in a bad way. Not-Apsalar goes Kamikaze on Yil's finely honed dagger, 10 times outta ten.
I guess Yil lost her youth in a bad way too, but less devastating i think

I'm fairly certain that Rope knows shadow dancing better than Yil does.

[Tehol's Trousers]

Cotillion taught Yil how to dance dude. He was there for her coming out party. in MoI i think.

[Kanese S's]

Tehol, on 25 August 2012 - 03:06 AM, said:

Cotillion taught Yil how to dance dude. He was there for her coming out party. in MoI i think.

And Sorry/Apsalar can pretty much do everything that Cotillion can. Also, having read the entire series... no, she does not have a death wish.

Lostara is not a normal red blade, she is a shadow dancer. But Apsalar is, in combat, virtually identical to THE shadow dancer. Also she's meaner and nastier as far as fighting goes than Lostara, even post-possession.

[HoosierDaddy]

Sorry, Kan, hit the wrong rep button. I'll hit up up a couple other times.

[Ukjent]

Apsalar all the way, name one who can put up with the female version of Dancer.

[Brujah]

I think we can all agree on this one, and fairly easily, but in Tehol's defense, I think some may have not given Lostara her proper dues. Lostara is quite capable of being considered far more than just a red blade, as EM said.

With that said, there is no amount of respect we could afford Lostara that we put her ahead of Apsalar, imo.

I think Kan pretty much nailed this one with his comment about Lostara being a shadow dancer, but Apsalar being THE shadow dancer.

I hope to be able to have a few more pairings that might clearly be obvious, but fun none the less.

[Luzburg]

They both have cotillions skills now in my opinion so it comes down to a flip of the coin in my case.

[Aptorian]

Apsalar killed 300... or was it 600? ... ninjas, with apparent ease. She's been shown to be able to kick a 1000 pound monster through a brick wall. Lostara Yil... uh... she once stabbed some dumb lizards during a shadow dance. Now of course if this fight was going on in a room with lots of spears lying on the ground one might trip on it might be another question.

[the broken]

Aptorius, on 02 September 2012 - 07:01 AM, said:

Apsalar killed 300... or was it 600? ... ninjas, with apparent ease. She's been shown to be able to kick a 1000 pound monster through a brick wall. Lostara Yil... uh... she once stabbed some dumb lizards during a shadow dance. Now of course if this fight was going on in a room with lots of spears lying on the ground one might trip on it might be another question.

I thought it was only about 70 at once.

Quote

Now of course if this fight was going on in a room with lots of spears lying on
the ground one might trip on it might be another question.

Or some Otataral.

[Aptorian]

the broken, on 02 September 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Or some Otataral.

Well, in that case Lostara would be out of her shadow dance ability as well, leaving the skills of Dancer vs Lostara's marshal abilities with a blade. Lostara would be dead before she knew what had happened.

Don't get me wrong. Lostara is a lethal soldier but Dancer was a superhuman killing machine even before he ascended. Think of what Surly was capable off in Return of the Crimson Guard. Then think of somebody that is probably scarier than her with a blade. And that person is also a magical power house.

[Silencer]

Aptorius, on 02 September 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

the broken, on 02 September 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Or some Otataral.

Well, in that case Lostara would be out of her shadow dance ability as well, leaving the skills of Dancer vs Lostara's marshal abilities with a blade. Lostara would be dead before she knew what had happened.

Don't get me wrong. Lostara is a lethal soldier but Dancer was a superhuman killing machine even before he ascended. Think of what Surly was capable off in Return of the Crimson Guard. Then think of somebody that is probably scarier than her with a blade. And that person is also a magical power house.

Indeed...it was a passing comment in RotCG, and one not exactly reliable, but I think it puts Dancer's skills in perspective: After the Veil assaults the Empire's command position, the commander attempts to lighten the mood by saying "Now we know what a visit from Dancer must have felt like", or similar. The thing is, if you consider it...Dancer would have been doing that sort of thing to AVOWED. To Veils. He killed the Protectress of Heng, too. And he fought off the dozen-or-so best Claw in the Empire, plus Laseen, plus Topper, while protecting a useless Kellanved, with no magic, and killed all of them barring the two most capable people in the room whom they MAY have wanted to keep alive anyway. Oh, and he wiped the floor with a bunch of Edur in a ridiculously short time period.

Sorry is basically that good. In fact, she's probably better, given Dancer might have improved over the intervening decade or so. Even without her OWN impressive resume, Sorry-Apsalar is a fucking badass. Considering what she's a carbon copy of, there is no way in hell Lostara survives this on her own merits - she'd be dead in seconds. She's good, but Apsalar is at least one league above her, possibly more.

[the broken]

Quote

And he fought off the dozen-or-so best Claw in the Empire, plus Laseen, plus Topper, while protecting a useless Kellanved, with no magic, and killed all of them barring the two most capable people in the room whom they MAY have wanted to keep alive anyway.

We don't see that fight. And I think you are seriously underestimating Kellanved there. The narration says he's useless ...from Kiska's point of view. And she is obviously an expert on what someone she's never met is capable of. The Emperor has to have picked up some hand to hand skills in the last century or so.

I know, if I was Laseen, I'd have sent in some disposable work experience Claws first before I did anything myself. For all we know, Topper and Laseen sat back until the minions were dead, and then Dancer decided he needed to get out of there fast. Bearing in mind that both Dancer and Kellanved were severely, perhaps mortally wounded in the fight, I think it could've been closer than we see. Possum survived too if I remember correctly, after fighting below already.

I agree, Apsalar wins.

Quote

He killed the Protectress of Heng, too.

Not disputing you, but where does it say that? All I remember is Silk saying that they walls could keep out anything but T'lan Imass