[Abyss]

My thoughts after finishing FoD and a review of sorts are at post 24 below - Posts 1-23, starting below the line, are my running thoughts during the reading and responding posts.

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I've enjoyed doing these rolling 'holy fuck did i just READ that?!?!?!?' threads on the last few books so FORGE OF DARKNESS is a great opportunity for another...As before, i'll move the whole thing to the proper FoD forum once i'm done and spoilers aren't an issue.
Responses and comments are welcome but NO SPOILERS for anything past wherever i'm at please. Violators will be deleted, shunned, severely reprimanded and/or have their own posts elsethread ninja-editted to profess their deep true love for the goatsex.


Start to end of Chapter 1...

That cast list is BRUTAL.
The map is WORSE.
AAAAAARRRGGGGHHHHH. I WANT TO KNOW MORE.

But also very exciting given some of the names and places. Also, BRUTAL.
So many of those names are just loaded with possibilities. One of the jaghut towns is 'Omtose Phellack' ffs!
Azathanai = Elder Gods????

So the Jheck go THAT far back?

Neat to see the forword as a message from Gallan, who we heard so much about elsebook, and Fisher.

Envy, Spite and... introducingggg.....Malice! Veddy. Int. Eresting.

Odd to me, but Arathan seems... 'familiar'... he reminds me of Nimander. I like how he initially comes across as this nail-biting simpleton and then we learn he's better than the best swordsmen in the House AND smarter than his tutor.

Draconus' name comes from his adoption into the House Dracons. Hmmm... i always figured on something more... draconic...

So THAT'S how Draconus and Kadaspala (child-god making artist in TtH) knew each other pre-Dragnipur... i guess Drac isn't an appreciator of the arts.

EVERYBODY is a child of Mother Dark! Even if they aren't. Wow, skanky AND pretentious. and 'we have a queen no one can see any more'.... oooOOOOooooo

Like the Borderswords. Raskan less so but that's part of the fun.

I like how Drac is training cavalry troops vs the other Houses' ignorance of using horses at war. nice shoutback/fwd to the Blue Rose and Letherii... and i love 'the charger is bred to hate the enemy'. Take THAT Stover! (obscure ref to CAINE'S LAW there...).

[Sinisdar Toste]

this thread is going to be glorious.

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Ch 2...

Urusander and Kadaspala's exchange is brilliant. It's brief but it says tonnes about the characters. I'm hideously curious to see who ultimately kills Kada' with Dragnipur and why, because while he initially seems like he pisses everyone off, there's more going on there.

Urusander is Osserc's dad... Osserc as an insecure 'teen' looking to prove himself... wow that's jarring. In a good way, but jarring considering everything we thought we knew about Ossi before this.

Forulkan... interesting... esp in light (pun intended) of the eventual conflict and alliance with the Liosan.

Cryl to Enesdia.... "I hope you’ll excuse me, I have a horse to whet and a sword to train." ...smoooooth dude.

Kadaspala is friends with Gallan... oh OF COURSE he is...

Enesdia is marrying ANDARIST!!! And Kada' is her brother who is obsessed with her... and Cryl Durav is Spinnock's kin and and and oh FFS it's only chapter 2 and SE has turned everything we knew about the Tiste into a glorious epic fantasy soap opera... and now of course when the KTrilo is over i'm going to have to reread MBF again...

i find these repreated references to cut forests and extinct animals and flooded mines interesting... seems to suggest that the Tiste civilization is at a stage of burn-out.

Nimander is Ruin/Rake/Andy's father's name!

And Hish Tulla is a skanky ho!

"Anomander’s sun-burnished face, the colour of pale gold" ...WHOA!

..ok maybe she isn't a skanky ho based on Monady's comments.... Silch is a dawg tho...

Silch to Andi... "let us not cross the lame dog’s path"... i suspect a ref to the RG prologue there...

'First Son of Darkness' but clearly NOT Mommy D's son at all, at least at this point. Isn't THAT a twist... because by the time the finale of TtH rolls around, things have changes a LOT.

" ‘We shall arrive with steam rising from us,’ Silchas observed, laughing, ‘like children born of chaos.’ " - foreshadowing much?

The High Mason hearthstone scene has that first hit of fantasy magic i was waiting for. nicely done. "I am named Caladan Brood." I knew it i knew it i knew it but amn it was cool to read it.

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Ch 3/p100ish...

Korya... cute, mildly annoying... has her brief moment of win with the leash comment. Haut... awesome. The dinner scene w the Jelarkans was neat. Great 'tension under the surface'. The soletaken refs were interesting. A race of black dog/wolf/man things. The description when they arrived sounded more like heavily armed mini-Ryllandarases than anything else.

Wasn't Varandas one of the 'last Jaghut army' dudes from DoD and TCG?

Looks like Sandy was a mess long before TCG. If we were right and she's headed to abuse, that's not going to help her state of mind much. Tho she's going to House Dracons... who is even available with Drac and Arthanan away...?

Nerys... nasty. She says her husband killed himself, Sandy thinks it was infection. And the jars of rocks... sad. Also, impractical. Nice to see lil' Orfantal.

Gallan... Galdan... Galar... seriously SE?

Assail are Forulkan priests. Interesting.

The Hust sword history was damn cool. I love the muttering and the way no one quite trusts them because their swords are clearly nuts. Good thing no one made a Hust Axe.

Houseblades, Borderswords, Urusander's Legion, Wardens.... got it. I think.

'Andii' = children of the Dark. And MD is wrapping herself in darkness and she found a gate... but she's clearly not a creation myth thing. Am wondering whether she eventually gets enough power to 'rewrite' reality, because when we 'see' her in earlier books she is very much a goddess.

Galar and Kellaras... interesting exchange esp re Rake, but wow the cast is increasing exponentially every segment. Am loving the way almost every 'new' name triggers a whole set of recall.

[Abyss]

Ch 4...

The Vitr Sea.... shades of ICE's SW/OST. Veddy interesting.

Ahhh MORE new characters... tho i admit i liked the wardens... and linking Faror to Kagamananarama Tulas... aka Tulas Shorn i think... was a nice touch.

Freaky dragon demon headless skeleton what?

Finarra... bad. ass.

Spinnock Durav! Cool. Pun intended.

Someone has come from the sea.... T'riss!!!! So... QoD... possibly. Everything seems to be up for grabs identitywise here.

Small scaled rats... suspiciously like the ones KC were responsible for?

Sharenas Ankhadu... Infayen Menand ... Tathe Lorat... Sukul Ankhadu... Menandore... Shelthana Lore.... ummmm but they're all OLDER than Osserc... who is sitting RIGHT THERE! Ok, i know a few advance readers were thrown off by this but i'm utterly intrigued.

Sharenas is buds w Faror who is engaged to Kaga who saved Silchas' life.... oh, we are deep deep deep down the rabbit hole here people...

Every time i read 'Ilges Rend' i think of the Ilgres Bhargast.

[champ]

Abyss, on 20 August 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Every time i read 'Ilges Rend' i think of the Ilgres Bhargast.

What a relief, you don't realise how much that was pissing me off, I knew I had read the Ilgres name in MBotF but couldn't figure out where, I'd spent ages searching the Wiki Dramatis Personae to no avail!

[Abyss]

Yah i realized somewhere in ch 4, specifically the first 'wardens' segment, that SE is going for the long game in a big big way, and there are layers to this we aren't going to see until bk 3 if ever.

The way he's playing this, with virtually everything being the groundwork for everything else, but where we KNOW there's a major game change at some point - because virtually every relationship we've and/or character we've seen so far is destined for a serious change - is intriguing. So i don't know if there is any link between Ilges and the Ilgres, but i don't know if there isn't either.

On the one hand, i believe in SE, trust in SE, SE is good, SE is great.

On the other hand we have Harllo.

[champ]

Abyss, on 20 August 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Yah i realized somewhere in ch 4, specifically the first 'wardens' segment, that SE is going for the long game in a big big way, and there are layers to this we aren't going to see until bk 3 if ever.

The way he's playing this, with virtually everything being the groundwork for everything else, but where we KNOW there's a major game change at some point - because virtually every relationship we've and/or character we've seen so far is destined for a serious change - is intriguing. So i don't know if there is any link between Ilges and the Ilgres, but i don't know if there isn't either.

Aye, safe to say that SE is going to keep us guessing with this trilogy right until the very end, especially as we 'think' we know what happened with the clues in MBotF, SE being SE, he's going to mindfuck us all!

I wouldn't be suprised if there are as many red herrings as there are genuine clues just to keep us on our toes.

And if Ilges meets Caladan Brood... potential there!

Abyss, on 20 August 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

On the one hand, i believe in SE, trust in SE, SE is good, SE is great.

Hopefully this...

Abyss, on 20 August 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

On the other hand we have Harllo.

More than this...

[Sinisdar Toste]

Haplo??



on a serious note, yea, there were a ton of things that threw me for a loop in this book, but i think i rolled with them admirably well. i get the feeling that all this son and daughter of so and so stuff that we got in the Book of the Fallen and in Baruk's draconean family tree were just incredibly misguided attempts at retroactively imposing some framework on the mess of Tiste who eventually form the rulership/pantheon of the three Tiste realms.

also, re: the jaghut - every jaghut tower on the map save Daryft is named for one of the 14 undead jaghut plus Hood. i believe even Gedoran is named in tCG, though he doesn't appear in the Dramatis Personae. maybe it was DoD...

basically, these guys are old as all get out, and wait till you meet the Lord of Hate and find out why Hood is... oh nvm, just read.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 20 August 2012 - 09:34 PM

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Sinisdar Toste, on 20 August 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

Haplo??

heh... noted and corrected. Nicely ref'd.

Quote

... re: the jaghut - every jaghut tower on the map save Daryft is named for one of the 14 undead jaghut plus Hood. i believe even Gedoran is named in tCG, though he doesn't appear in the Dramatis Personae. maybe it was DoD...

Thought i recognized a few but hadn't checked. Nice catch.

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Ch 5...

Salamander had it coming. Too bad the horse didn't aim higher.

Then later so did Feren and Arathan! (thank you, thank you, i'm here all week,,,).

Some very interesting insight into Draconus this chapter. Sure he's a dominating imperialistic jerk, but not nearly thet bastard it's been suggested he was around the time Rake will take Dragnipur from him.

Grizzin Farl was damn funny... very much the 'happy drinking viking' type but there were some sublte notes there, especially about missing every battle.

Also, "Grizzin Farl, MATE OF KILAMANDAROS'?????/

Ch 6... . to p170ish

Hust has issues. Wonder if thats why his swords also have issues. Yet Rake thinks he can make him a 'silent' sword aspected to Darkness... hmmmm...

I'm enjoying Kada and Urusander's exchanges. Too bad they're done.

Kellaras clearly needs to get laid.

So does Cryl. That aside, interesting intro to Scabby. And it looks like the Jheleckan sent their kids after all. 'Hounds'... oh SE, how you tease us...

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Ch 7...

Lots of Warden goodness. I keep wondering at the separation from the Borderswords tho.

The Shake have seriously changed... gender divided warrior cult here to disposeable slave race in the future. Wow.

Repeated refs to the 'shore' of the Vitr has me wondering.

Ahhh .... The Spar of Andii explained. Cool!

And we have a dragon! Sort of.

The interplay between SkAnkhadu and Kaga is interesting. She's almost being.... nice.

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Ch8....

Feren, Arathan, ouch.

Drac has the most interesting way of doing an ultrasound.

Griz is more than he seems.

Brood interested inblood? Krul's child's blood???

Errant and Sech are Kila and Griz' kids??????? And they just killed Hood's wife!?!?!?!!!!

Wait, warrens...what?

Haut is Hood's bro?

My head hurts after this chapter

[Abyss]

partway thru ch9...


Ahhh... Sheri ISN'T Sukul. Sukul is Sukul!

[Abyss]

p350ish.. finally managed to sit down and read more than one chapter....

Things are picking up nicely, tho i admit to being a little annoyed at the talky to stabby ratio and the fact that halfway thru the book and we're still getting new pov characters.

Also... Risp/Rike/Raskan/Rancet/Ribs/Really???

T'riss' visit to MD was interesting and well written. So much conflict just beneath the surface.

I loved how the Shake assassin and Anomander both think the other is better. that was nicely done.

The Liossan thing with the High Priestess was a little out of nowhere tho. It seems that T'riss is responsible for the Liosan more than Urusander/'Father Light'.

Apparently she's also responsible for Rake's hair. Heh.

The supporting cast has really been awesome... Gripp Galas was a nice surprise.

The Borderswords confronting Olar Ethil was nicely done. The fact that she didn't just come down out of the tree and kill him while he was setting the fire said alot.

Lots of Azathanai stuff... they seem to be a race of gods not ready for godhood yet. 'Old Man' was interesting.... his aspects seems to be 'outer space'.

'The sea does not dream of you'. NICE SHOUTBACK!

OLAR ETHIL IS ENVY/SPITE/MALICE'S MOM?!?!?!?!?! That puts an interesting twist on a bunch of things from the MBF, esp in TCG.

Olar being a complete nasty piece of work however, not so surprising.

Wondering whether Feren's daughter will turn out to be someone important.

The sequence with Sukul, Rancet and Ribs was what i so love about these books. Them finding Burn like that was just perfect. Rancet and Ribs were two more bits of awesome too.

Arathan doesn't believe in love anymore. Awwwww.

I think we confirmed this back in RCG or SW, but Aradata is named among the Az'i, so she IS an Elder God it seems.

"The High King has built a ship". WHAT???? does that mean Kallor....??? Whoa...

I'm really enjoying the character building around Draconus.

Also interesting that it seems he triggered MD's whole 'goddess of darkness' thing.

Enjoying the Orfantal character-building but given how he ultimately dies i really want to see some froeshadowing of that. His obsession with glorious heroic betrayal seems... misplaced.

[Lady Bliss]

MUST. IGNORE. POSTS. ABOUT. FOD...

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

[amphibian]

Abyss, on 24 August 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Also... Risp/Rike/Raskan/Rancet/Ribs/Really???

I was going to comment earlier on this, but figured I'd let you discover that organically.

I was not disappointed. At least it gives Yedan Derryg and Yan Tovis some uniqueness in their names.

[Abyss]

Lady Bliss, on 24 August 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

MUST. IGNORE. POSTS. ABOUT. FOD...

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!

seriously what are you even doing here in this thread....? go away! shoo! come back when you've read it...

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 24 August 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Abyss, on 24 August 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Also... Risp/Rise/Raskan/Rancet/Ribs/Really???

I was going to comment earlier on this, but figured I'd let you discover that organically.

I was not disappointed. At least it gives Yedan Derryg and Yan Tovis some uniqueness in their names.

See also Galak and Galas and Gallan just for good measure. *sigh*

[Sinisdar Toste]

i think the t'riss stuff was super well done. here we all were, thinking that the andii, edur, and liosan have always been apart, and then we find out it was basically FORCED on them. really great scene there in the throne room. i think i prefer that the divisions were first made in such a fumbling, uncertain manner. what's really funny is that this priestess, Syntara, the first Liossan, has absolutely NO place in Tiste history or mythology. she might be known under another name, but i think it more likely she gets throat-cut and buried in the back garden at some point. what a glorious creation myth for the liossan