[Tehol the Only]

Has anyone read it? I'm 400 pages into it and i'm finding it the most painful, boring and obnoxious read i've ever had. I've found loads of praises and love for this book around the internetZ so i'm starting to wonder if perhaps reading Erikson has somehow irremediably damaged my brain, thus forbidding me to enjoy other books.
Anyway, back to the point... my main gripes with the book are:
-Style
It's SO SLOOOOOOOOOOOWWW... every single chapter has at least 30 pages of moaning internal monologue in it. 80% of all the plot-relevant stuff is told you in such mind boggling monologues. Looks like Guy Gavriel Kay is a fan of the "Tell, don't show. I mean it, absolutely don't you dare never ever show anything for god sake NO" principle.

-Plot
Unimpressive. Not bad but really not at all memorable either. Heavily relies on chance and casuality (and some "WTF just WHY?" choices by the protagonists).

-Magic
Next time i hear a Tigana fan whine because "Magic in Malaz is random and not well defined" i'll just politely say "ok, your opinion mate" then bash his face with a rock... a big rock... with spikes.... and sharks on it....... and lasers.

-Characters
Again, unimpressive. Characterization relies on repeating a couple basic concepts like "omg noone can pronounce the name of my land i'm so sad" about 9999999 times per chapter. Also the logic of some of the characters made me seriously consider lobotomy.


Ok so... what do you think? Anyone shares my opinion or should i simply stfu and move along?

This post has been edited by Tehol the Only: 09 August 2012 - 06:51 PM

[polishgenius]

I think you should shut the fuck up and stop comparing Tigana directly to Malazan, if I'm honest. I mean yeah, if you've read Malazan for the first time recently there might be a certain difficulty to read books, especially fantasy, that aren't it (that seems to happen with this series and aSoIaF especially when people come in to either one having not read much quality before) but you seem to have come into it expecting not to enjoy it already.

Perhaps go read things that are a bit closer to the style of Erikson so they aren't such a culture shock.


I honestly didn't have a problem with anything you criticised about the book but for me the best thing about it is the prose, which is stunning.



And if you think Tigana is slow then I just don't know what to say. Some of Kay's books are fairly stately in their pace but Tigana isn't one of them.

[Macros]

I really disliked Tigana.
I finished it but mostly because I generally try to finish what I start.

My complaints were largely in line with yours.
pace was.. I don't know if it was really all the slow, but it just felt as if nothing was happening.
I didn't feel overly drawn to any of the characters, maybe Tomas a tiny bit.
I didn't mind the magic system overly, I thought initially the whole chop off your finger thing was novel, then I put it in the context of the two main enemies and how they didn't have to do it because theywere born 1000 miles away, then it bothered me a bit.

I haven't read much Kay that I am aware of (unless its random stuff I've read without knowing it was him) so I can't comment on his usual style, pace or prose. But this book was very much like knight/wizard by Wolfe, I really didn't understand the hype.
Must be a personal preference thing for me, all the pretty prose in the world can't hide a dull stroyline and flat characters.

Of the jester, the one good character in this novel

[Salt-Man Z]

Just finished it last night and loved it. It certainly wasn't fast-paced or action-packed, but it did have moments that were. And the ending was marvelous. Beautiful book.

Though it's pretty amusing to hear a Malazite complain of a book being too slow-paced and heavy on the internal monologues.

[Macros]

Not really considering how split the forums are over the last few books in the series

[Mentalist]

I've read all of Kay's stuff (except Ysabel ) and Tigana was one I enjoyed the least.

I suggest trying Sarantine Mosaic to get the best of Kay.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Tigana has its moments for sure, and the pacing i feel is not that slow, just stretched out over a long ass standalone. with not very much effort you could turn tigana into a trilogy. i liked most of the characters and the action, but sometimes it seemed a little too, i dno, fluffy.

right now, i can't bring all that much detail about it to mind, if i reread it i might have a stronger opinion one way or the other, but i don't really feel the urge.

[Una]

It wasn't my favourite GGK book, but it wasn't the worst. I would probably rank it somewhere in the middle. When I read Kay, it's roughly 30% about story, 70% about emotion. Things happen and people make decisions, but so much of his writing is about how the characters decide they are going to live with the consequences.

I second the notion of trying the Sarantine Mosaic. I can understand if Tigana isn't your thing, but if you can read through the whole story in the Sarantine Mosaic and not feel something, then I will actually believe that you have no soul.

[pat5150]

Absoluetly loved Tigana!

Patrick

[D'rek]

I liked TIgana a lot when I read it, but I've never felt the urge to re-read it. Go figure.

(I've liked all of GGK's novels and have felt the need to re-read some of them.)

[worry]

Haven't read the book but Tigana is the name of my girl and I like her plenty:

[Tehol the Only]

I'm not comparing Tigana to Malazan... i'm just sayin it felt wrong in almost every possible way.
When you have to stop reading every five minutes or die of boredom there is no need to compare to say a book is bad (again this is my opinion, i know lots of people love it).I posted this here to know the opinion of someone who (supposedly) has tastes similar to mine (at least a little bit).

Quote

but you seem to have come into it expecting not to enjoy it already.

Actually i made some research before buying it and read a lot of positive reviews, so i came into it expecting a great book. I had enough after 100 pages but i forced myself to read 300 more hoping it would get better.

Una, on 10 August 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

When I read Kay, it's roughly 30% about story, 70% about emotion.

Why, that is interesting... if the emotional part is so important for you, it could be i disliked the book so much because i felt no emotional attachement at all.

Quote

Though it's pretty amusing to hear a Malazite complain of a book being too slow-paced and heavy on the internal monologues.

Eheh touchè Actually some of the Malazan books i liked most are the ones heavier on that side, go figure...
Anyway i guess i expressed myself a bit badly, my grudge isn't with the monologues themselves, but with how they're used to tell stuff i didn't care about(the constant reiteration of sad feelings) or that i'd prefer to "see", such as when Dianora tells her past(that tale in particular felt very dull to me).
:


Again i DON'T want to compare GGK and SE.... it just feels strange to hate a book when virtually everyone around sings its praises.
I guess the truth is simply that i'm a heartless, evil person

[Morgoth]

polishgenius, on 09 August 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

I think you should shut the fuck up and stop comparing Tigana directly to Malazan, if I'm honest.

I don't think this is the sort of discourse we want here. There's no harm in trying to be a little polite.

[polishgenius]

Morgoth, on 10 August 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

I don't think this is the sort of discourse we want here. There's no harm in trying to be a little polite.

Fair enough, I suppose that looked a little harsh, but you (and anyone else I offended) do realise that I was just repeating his own phrase back? I just unacronymed the acronym because censoring a swearword unless the board won't let me use it has always struck me as daft.

It was meant to be vaguely jokey, is what I'm saying.

</off topic>

Quote

I'm not comparing Tigana to Malazan... i'm just sayin it felt wrong in almost every possible way.

Fair enough, but even if you weren't doing it consciously, a lot of your complaints seem to be of the culture-shock sort. As I say, you wouldn't be the first, and I do recommend that you don't write off Kay entirely and, once you've found your feet in a post-Malazan world, think about trying some of his other work.

I may be misreading you if you haven't read Malazan recently, but your initial comment makes you seem like you did.

[Otataral Toblakai]

My advice - don't compare anything to Malazan. Been there, done that, regretted it. Nothing, I repeat nothing, compares to it and I do speak after reading a sizeable amount of whatever fiction is present in this drab world today. Malazan is like the undisputed liege of fantasy - for those who've read it - the Holy Grail of Fantasy, as I like to call it. Once you've tasted it you, sadly, feel the same way an addict does after withdrawal. Its pure delight and it has no comparison.

However, there are similar series that do come close to the Malazan style, so to speak, and ill recommend some to you.

A Song of Ice and Fire (if not already read)
A Wheel of Time (if not already read)
Everything by Joe Abercombie - and I mean everything since its filled with pure badassery though not much scope
Glen Cook's Black Company (inspired SE)
Scott Lynch's Gentlemen Bastards
Robin Hobb's books set in the Farseer world
Jacqueline Carey's duology (told from the 'evil' side)

[Tehol the Only]

I finished Malazan quite some time ago... after that i had time to read Elantris, the Mistborn trilogy (which i Both loved), The Liveship traders trilogy (which i quite enjoied after a rough start) and a few other books(Nok, Rotcg and B&KB among these). I kinda feel my subconcious had time enough to heal from the Malzan addiction .

Anyway i'll probably give the Sarentine Mosaic a try...

Many thanks to everyone for the replies!!!!!

[Abyss]

TIGANA is one of those polarizing books that tends to get extreme love from one segment and active dislike from the other side of the forum. It's worth noting that the vast majority of the forumites who dislike TIGANA have read it, and other Kay books, and ample fantasy besides, so these are informed opinions and not the kind of kneejerk reaction we get when certain other authors make our eyes bleed.

Just my $0.02. ... I'm firmly on the active dislike side. I found it slow, meandering to the point of going off on pointless tangents that had nothing to do with and added nothing to the main storyline (ahem, incest, ahem, demon invasion or whatever that was ahem). I really really like the central idea of the book, but i found that the execution of it made little sense and had huge logic flaws. I also found most of the characters underdeveloped or so archetypical as to be uninteresting. I have read most of everything else Kay has written and loved most of it - LIONS and SARANTINE are easily some of my favourite books ever - but only LAST LIGHT ranks lower for me than TIGANA.

[Tehol the Only]

Abyss, on 10 August 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

TIGANA is one of those polarizing books that tends to get extreme love from one segment and active dislike from the other side of the forum. It's worth noting that the vast majority of the forumites who dislike TIGANA have read it, and other Kay books, and ample fantasy besides, so these are informed opinions and not the kind of kneejerk reaction we get when certain other authors make our eyes bleed.

Just my $0.02. ... I'm firmly on the active dislike side. I found it slow, meandering to the point of going off on pointless tangents that had nothing to do with and added nothing to the main storyline (ahem, incest, ahem, demon invasion or whatever that was ahem). I really really like the central idea of the book, but i found that the execution of it made little sense and had huge logic flaws. I also found most of the characters underdeveloped or so archetypical as to be uninteresting. I have read most of everything else Kay has written and loved most of it - LIONS and SARANTINE are easily some of my favourite books ever - but only LAST LIGHT ranks lower for me than TIGANA.

I R unworthy of thy support, my feline master.


Anyway, spot on... I as well was really intrigued with the premise and very disappointed with the execution.... speaking of randomness, what about the whole "i almost started a war" part?

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 10 August 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

TIGANA is one of those polarizing books that tends to get extreme love from one segment and active dislike from the other side of the forum. It's worth noting that the vast majority of the forumites who dislike TIGANA have read it, and other Kay books, and ample fantasy besides, so these are informed opinions and not the kind of kneejerk reaction we get when certain other authors make our eyes bleed.

Just my $0.02. ... I'm firmly on the active dislike side. I found it slow, meandering to the point of going off on pointless tangents that had nothing to do with and added nothing to the main storyline (ahem, incest, ahem, demon invasion or whatever that was ahem). I really really like the central idea of the book, but i found that the execution of it made little sense and had huge logic flaws. I also found most of the characters underdeveloped or so archetypical as to be uninteresting. I have read most of everything else Kay has written and loved most of it - LIONS and SARANTINE are easily some of my favourite books ever - but only LAST LIGHT ranks lower for me than TIGANA.

It's kinda mean to compare Tigana with his later works, though. Tigana seems obviously, to me, GGK's first try with playing around with the whole modified-historical-place motif (the Tigana peninsula being Italy), and his later stuff has the benefit of him having already tried the ideas that don't work in Tigana and not using them again, hence why Tigana seems to not be in the shared world of Lions, Last Light, Arbonne and the Sarantine duo.

[Use Of Weapons]

I loved Tigana, and it remains my favourite of Kay's works. (I've read everything up to the Sarantine Mosaic.)

Abyss and I differ in this, which is strange because in general, our tastes run along fairly similar lines. I re-read Tigana recently, and so my impression was confirmed. It does have a slow burn beginning, in the mould of more traditional fantasy, unlike Malazan which is very much in medias res. But Kay's strength has always been his characters, and Tigana's characters have an aching depth that is lacking in so much fantasy these days.

Bear with it. If the denoument doesn't move you, then blame me. But don't consign it to the scrapheap until you've read the ending.