[Familiar]

Forgive me for this, but I was reading Forge and looking out for Scabandari Bloodeye, because reasons.
But either my mind is going dull, which is totally possible, or else I can't see anyone who really looks potentially Bloodeye-ish.
I was under the assumption that he was going to be Scara Bandaris, but I don't know. He doesn't seem like he's the guy who's masterminded everything as his gloating in MT implied, nor does he seem tough enough to require a bunch of Eleint, Mael, and Kilmandaros to take down (although admittedly he's not Soletaken yet.)
Also, it's implied that Kilmandaros (or maybe Olar Ethil) is the mother of Envy, Malice, and Spite, not Sheltatha Lore...
Sigh.
Why do the Tiste have to have such confusing families.

[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

I think he's referred to as Scara Bandaris in Reaper's Gale or Dust of Dreams.

[helgi]

Yeah, pretty sure Scara Bandaris will become Father Shadow... so we'll see some transformation of that character later on.

Also, Envy, Malice and Spite are Olar Ethil daughters.

Sheltatha Lore, Sukul Ankhadu and probably Menandore are "normal" Tiste but are some how related to Father Shadow and Osserc through Tiam, since Sukul and Menandore are said to be the daughters of Tiam and Osserc while Sheltatha is said to be the daughter of Tiam and Scabandari.

I have a feeling these things will somehow be revealed once Tiam shows up in the later novels. Just as Anomander and brothers are not actually the sons of Mother Dark, these characters are not actually the daughters of who they were said to be, but are somehow related to the event of Osserc, Scabandari, etc, drinking from Tiam.

[tiam]

Yes Scara Bandaris does seem remarkably friendly and thick as thieves with Ruin, who is good friends with Kagamandra Tulas, who saved his life. A very fickle web. However his gloating in MT seems out of place as he claims to have been the one to ruin Andarist though Andarist knew it not, so maybe there is some unseen involvement. Im sure he will develop as he is said to be very ambitious and is only using Hun Raal or whatever that dicks name was. Bloodeyes entire speech makes little sense as he comments on those races native to Wu and how they cannot challenge him, when really he already knows all these races as theyre a few days on horseback away.

OE is not the father of Envy and Spite which ofc makes no sense in comparison to the old series. Hopefully SE will make it plausible with her becoming a mother figure to Envy and Spite thus allowing us wiggle room.

[Asharak]

I think Scara Bandaris is going to go through some kind of Darth Vader experience when he drinks the blood of Tiam, because he is clearly a good guy to the core in "Forge of Darkness". At the end of the book he resigns from the legion and basicaly gives them the middle finger, despite possibly being on Silcas Ruins kill list, and them being the ones who could protect him. Pretty impressive.

He will probably break Andarist at a later point, and that will be what he is thinking of in MT.

[The Swordbearer]

Hey been a while since I did re reads. Scara Bandaris=Scabandaris IMO

The Edur and Andii were allies against the Kchain on what became the Letheras continent , Scabby gave the order that made them go all Backstaby on the remenants of the Andii contingent the survivors founded Bluerose up till then I think relations were ok between the 2 and this was the first betrayal .

I cannot remember where I read it but Scabby was accused by ? of not being of the real Father Shadow and that he usurped the position through regicide. Could be he then adopted the three girls as his offspring being as they helped put him there. One of them even had Nimander and Phaed with Rake

As far as Spite Envy and Malice being the offspring of OE In FoD Arathan gives thought to his memory of their mother as being a heavy brooding woman with a strange face that had either died or left after weaning his half sisters He was told by his Tutor Sagan that she had in fact been a wet nurse a Witch of the Dog-Runners who dwelt beyond the Solitude Giving birth to those three little monsters might have cost the life of their real mother so he had to get a wet nurse AKA Olar Ethil.

[Puck]

Sagander lied about the wet nurse thing, he's stuck up on everything to be proper and doesn't want Arathan to be asking questions. We clearly see with how Draconus behaves towards OE that she IS the girls' mother.

[The Swordbearer]

Came to the same conclusion on my re-read Puck.

I am thinking at this point the Azathanae should rethink procreating pureblood offspring. The five examples we have been introduced to so far with the possible exception of Arathan are one and all murderous little buggers mind you I am thinking his mother was not Azathanae but I have been wrong before

Dont know if it was intentional or not, But in the Dramatis Personae pages Kagamandra Tulas is listed as one of Urusanders Legion officers page xvii.
On page xix under Cohort Commanders Tulas Shorn is the name that is placed between Esthala and Sharenas Ankhadu Not Kagamanda Tulas.

This post has been edited by The Swordbearer: 02 December 2012 - 02:21 AM

[worry]

It's intentional...and so one can assume the Family Tree was drawn up by somebody post-FoD/post-shorning.

[Puck]

The Swordbearer, on 02 December 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Dont know if it was intentional or not, But in the Dramatis Personae pages Kagamandra Tulas is listed as one of Urusanders Legion officers page xvii.
On page xix under Cohort Commanders Tulas Shorn is the name that is placed between Esthala and Sharenas Ankhadu Not Kagamanda Tulas.

Not sure what you're getting at as that's still the same person no matter what version of the name you use.

That said, I'm with worrywort there, don't see much significance in the change. There might be, but meh...

[Tony-t]

so anomander is not blood related to MD.. but are he silchas and andarist biological bros?

and the tiste all had like a neutral skin color till they picked sides?

and MD was a normal tiste? im pretty lost and have no real motivation to read forge of darkness or the ICE books. I finished book of the fallen and think its time to try another series.

[HoosierDaddy]

Tony-t, on 22 April 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

so anomander is not blood related to MD.. but are he silchas and andarist biological bros?

and the tiste all had like a neutral skin color till they picked sides?

and MD was a normal tiste? im pretty lost and have no real motivation to read forge of darkness or the ICE books. I finished book of the fallen and think its time to try another series.

1. Yes, yes.

2. Yes.

3. Yes, with evidently a profound talent for tapping into Galain such that she is pretty much sucking all light from the Tiste lands and who has had a cult/religion built around her.

[Egwene]

I think a big part the trilogy will be about how history re-writes itself or is deliberately re-written by those in a position and with an interest to do so. Given that, we have to take the myths and stories about the elder races from the main series with a huge pinch of salt.

In FoD we get the origins of these myths and they are bound to be somewhat different. So wet nurses might turn into mothers and adopted children into those of the bloodline or vice versa. Would you remember who was related to whom amongst you neighbours, former friends etc. thousands of years later? I have trouble enough trying to line up my own grand-parents generation.

The conversation between Draconus and OE 'seems' to point towards joint parentage... but people will also talk like that about those they have nurtured without actual blood bond or use such expressions in even more metaphorical ways... Shadowthrone speaks of the Empire as his child for example.

We are looking at birth and parentage amongst Azathanai and others in human terms. Now think of how Setch describes birthing the twins... he is always described as male, yet he very much says that he birthed them. Think of how the Nachts and the Boleads get created. Seems to me that maybe the sisters were 'created' rather than conceived and birthed in the human way. The Vitr probably plays a large role in all of that.

Another theme of the trilogy is probably how people act based on not knowing all the facts or having been given false information. We have already seen how unauthorized actions by some had consequences far beyond because noone knew the truth of what had happened. So maybe there is far more to Scabandaris' betrayal than Silchas ever knew. Maybe we find out that he had no choice but to act the way he did based on information he had. Could even be it wasn't him at all... maybe an Azathanai taking on his shape...

FoD hints at a lot of possibilities but I don't think we have been given that many definite answers as yet. About the only one is how Anomanders hair and skin came to be the colour they were in MBotF

<---- SE whilst writing...


@Tony-t... Hope you find something you'll enjoy. If however you have not yet re-read the Malazan series than you may find that doing that will give you more light bulb moments than all the lights in town put together.

[tiam]

Tony-t, on 22 April 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

so anomander is not blood related to MD.. but are he silchas and andarist biological bros?

and the tiste all had like a neutral skin color till they picked sides?

and MD was a normal tiste? im pretty lost and have no real motivation to read forge of darkness or the ICE books. I finished book of the fallen and think its time to try another series.

Why no motivation to read FOD or the ICE books? They have alot of impact on the main arc.

MD was a normal woman to some extent but she jumped from the spar of the Andii into choas with no hesitation and Draconus loved her for it. She was already powerful enough to gain a cult following and had powers of her own before Draconus turned her into an azathanai.

[Tony-t]

NoOneExpectsThetiamishInquisition, on 22 April 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Tony-t, on 22 April 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

so anomander is not blood related to MD.. but are he silchas and andarist biological bros?

and the tiste all had like a neutral skin color till they picked sides?

and MD was a normal tiste? im pretty lost and have no real motivation to read forge of darkness or the ICE books. I finished book of the fallen and think its time to try another series.

Why no motivation to read FOD or the ICE books? They have alot of impact on the main arc.

MD was a normal woman to some extent but she jumped from the spar of the Andii into choas with no hesitation and Draconus loved her for it. She was already powerful enough to gain a cult following and had powers of her own before Draconus turned her into an azathanai.

to b honest I might have to go get the other books now, admittedly I did not give them the credit they clearly deserve. thought they were really just add on stories.

[worry]

Yah, they add on to the amount of awesomeness in your life.

[Abyss]

Tony-t, on 23 April 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

...

to b honest I might have to go get the other books now, admittedly I did not give them the credit they clearly deserve. thought they were really just add on stories.

Far from I t, they're a whole other side to the story. ICE isn't SE, so you'll have to adjust for that, but overall, I thought they were pretty damn great and an enjoyable supplement/complement to the ten MBF books. As for FOD, we'll, that's SE messing with what we thnk we know and having a grand time doing it. Again, different from the MBF but is. Good way, imnsho at least.

[Egwene]

Tony-t, on 23 April 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

NoOneExpectsThetiamishInquisition, on 22 April 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Tony-t, on 22 April 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

so anomander is not blood related to MD.. but are he silchas and andarist biological bros?

and the tiste all had like a neutral skin color till they picked sides?

and MD was a normal tiste? im pretty lost and have no real motivation to read forge of darkness or the ICE books. I finished book of the fallen and think its time to try another series.

Why no motivation to read FOD or the ICE books? They have alot of impact on the main arc.

MD was a normal woman to some extent but she jumped from the spar of the Andii into choas with no hesitation and Draconus loved her for it. She was already powerful enough to gain a cult following and had powers of her own before Draconus turned her into an azathanai.

to b honest I might have to go get the other books now, admittedly I did not give them the credit they clearly deserve. thought they were really just add on stories.

When you consider Laseen's story arc... the main series effectively contained the add-on story and the main event happens in ICE's book. Same with some others...

[tiam]

Tony-t, on 23 April 2014 - 01:54 AM, said:

NoOneExpectsThetiamishInquisition, on 22 April 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Tony-t, on 22 April 2014 - 01:17 AM, said:

so anomander is not blood related to MD.. but are he silchas and andarist biological bros?

and the tiste all had like a neutral skin color till they picked sides?

and MD was a normal tiste? im pretty lost and have no real motivation to read forge of darkness or the ICE books. I finished book of the fallen and think its time to try another series.

Why no motivation to read FOD or the ICE books? They have alot of impact on the main arc.

MD was a normal woman to some extent but she jumped from the spar of the Andii into choas with no hesitation and Draconus loved her for it. She was already powerful enough to gain a cult following and had powers of her own before Draconus turned her into an azathanai.

to b honest I might have to go get the other books now, admittedly I did not give them the credit they clearly deserve. thought they were really just add on stories.

The Bauchelain and Korbal Broach novellas are simply add ons and there not that relevant to the main series. FOD provides alot of background to the more mythological side of things. The beginning of everything to a certain extent. NOK is a interesting if not essential read.

ICEs books are, as far as im concerned, essential reading for a malazan fan. Alot of people on site find his writing style a sharp contrast to SE's prose, with some comparing him to a young adult writer which I think is unfair. The actual topics he covers are very interesting and flesh out the Empire rather than the CG story. Return of the CGRD dovetails very nicely with GOTM and I believe its its natural sequel, Stonewielder addresses the Korel continent, OST leads off from TTH and Blood and Bone is set on Jacuruku.

Their good books on their own merits if not reaching maybe Eriksons standard of writing, if that effects your decision to read them. I find ICE's more straightforward style very refreshing after the dense TTH for example.

[Tony-t]

Spoiler

so just got the book, got about a hundred pages left, must have missed something very key. are bursa and narad and that crew attacking high born with the intention of it seeming like the deniers did it? thus putting into motion MDs need for the legion?

2 more words:MORE RAKE. I totalyy agree with him not having a POV but this book does have more than a few dry spells without him.