[Korvalain]

No one? Really?

Queue sarcastic applause

[Ampelas]

 Kaschan, on 17 July 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

 Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Ok, I see it? What about it?

That's why the exchange is being described as a joke-spat and potentially a signal.

Ah, ok.

[Silanah]

Only about 50 minutes. I would really like to see a lynch today! Someone is going to have to move their vote if we're gonna get a lynch. I won't move my vote to me, and moving my vote to any of the others will just bring them to the same as Karosis.

Edit: changed Korv to Karosis.

This post has been edited by Silanah: 17 July 2012 - 04:21 PM

[Atrahal]

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Fuck me, i'm way ahead with posts! That never usually happens! Where is a certain someone with his 100 posts a day?

If Fener hasn't posted then he must be scum!!

Vote Fener

Above, An example of fishing for a reaction from low poster. nothing suspicious really. And fener didn't defensively respond, which makes me think he/she is actually busy and can't post.

 Sorrit, on 17 July 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

@Karosis. I agree with your last post. This is the only interaction that stands out.

 Anthras, on 16 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Silanah

I'm in that video!

 Silanah, on 16 July 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

 Anthras, on 16 July 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

You'll see me 36 seconds in

Are you the hot topless guy?

Anthras also removed his vote from Sil after that exchange. If Anthras is signalling, then I think it is to Silanah.



vote Silanah

Above: I have no idea what sorrit is saying here. Are these posts signalling or something? I am probably just slow.

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

 Kaschan, on 17 July 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I popped into the thread earlier on my phone before leaving for work to see what was going on. Clearly I forgot to sign in anonymously if someone noticed in those 2 minutes. What makes you suspicious about Sorrit, Ano, and Korv, yet you disregard some of the people who've already been discussed as potentially scummy?

edit: It's 8:43. You probably saw me lurking at around 7:30 before I left my home.

Er, This aimed at me?

First off, for someone accused of lurking it is pretty convenient of you to appear almost straight after being voted for. That smacks of er lurking especially when you said nothing before this post.

I'm suspicious of everyone. I don't have a feel for anyone yet.

No one has been discussed as scummy, just little tidbits with little to go on.

Kaschan responded quickly after being called out, and pretty defensively. definitely a stronger reaction than most others we've seen by this point, and something that has a little more substance.

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

 Korvalain, on 17 July 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

Wait a second, Fener is in this game?

Ahah! We have our scum.

remove vote

Vote fener

Kaschan is being discussed and Korv comes on and votes Fener. Joke vote or not this could be deflection

Could be deflection, but then 'Fener as scum' joke goes back a bit, and this is day one we're talking about. At this point I thought the Fener vote was a joke vote

 Korvalain, on 17 July 2012 - 12:50 PM, said:

 Karosis, on 17 July 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Korbas, it's not nice to make death threats

Evon though Simon is a douche, he is usually right

This is the most suspicious post so far, to me. Can't tell if putting pressure as RI, signaling as symp, or trying to create suspicion as killer.

He would be a safe lynch, imo.

Another weak signalling case. The only important thing to note about this quote is that Korvalain has provided a 'safe lynch' candidate. It isn't a safe lynch, and certainly casts greater suspicion on Korv as a symp (further deflecting attention away from kaschan)

 Korvalain, on 17 July 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

remove vote

Vote karosis

For now. Willing to switch, of course, but as I said, he seems a safer lynch than a rando.

Again we have Korvalain jumping on another player, claiming it's better than voting for a random player. Every case made by Korvalain by this point has been weak, almost on par with a random vote. This is starting to look like some dirty business.

 Korvalain, on 17 July 2012 - 01:58 PM, said:

You think I'm a symp because I voted elsewhere while you were discussing Kaschan.

Okay. I told you I didn't like the case, and decided where to vote on my own. If that's symping to you, so be it. Believe what you want. I won't be able to make huge cases down the road anyway, my phone doesn't copypaste. So if you ignore me, that's fine.

Korvalain didn't like the case. I don't recall an actual defense, aside from something along the lines of "I believe him, besides, look at this other obvious signalling!" - I'm paraphrasing, of course.

 Silanah, on 17 July 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

 Atrahal, on 17 July 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

So what I get with the last couple pages it that we have three choices when aiming for scum, at least, three options that have been mentioned already.

One choice being low posters. Scum often lay low, especially if they aren't called out. If they are lurking when these 'cases' are made against them, it usually prompts a response. If too defensive, it's possible that we got a scum.

Second option is to look for sympage. I can't recall the player names (I'll reread the thread once again and get the people straight after breakfast). This is a possible case, and doesn't necessarily rely on posting time comparisons, which are occasionally accurate but more often than not a dangerous proposition early game.

Third option is signalling. I suppose this is possible, but there is quite a bit of spam to sift through on the first few pages, and most seems meaningless.

On day one I'm more inclined to favour the symp option. Signalling cases are weak day one, but I'm sure they will become more prevalent, and undoubtedly more probable, as the game progresses. Low posters. well, scum often try to stay off the radar, but there were a few mentions of low posting players during the sign up so I'm not necessarily ready to vote a low poster at this point of the game. Low posting only becomes more suspicious as the game goes on, so we'll keep our eyes open I'm sure.

We have two hours so I'm going to go through the last couple pages of posts again and throw down a vote.

Seeing as only a symp would likely have to signal on Day 1 in a M&P, options 2 and 3 are basically the same.

Yeah you are correct. I forgot that we are playing a relatively simple game, with likely one symp. I do not agree that a symp is most likely to signal day one though. I bet most of us here have played that role before, and I doubt any of us tried to signal day one. It's such a silly thing to do. Much easier to lay back, and deflect attention away from the partner when you must. There are enough players that the symp will not likely be targeted by his fellow this early in the game, especially if the symp plays safe. I feel it is much more effective to watch for deflection in terms of spotting a symp, rather than looking for signalling day 1.

[Atrahal]

At this point I'm going to vote for Kaschan. Korvalain seems to be overtly deflecting. Might not be the strongest case, but for day one it seems the most obvious route.

vote Kaschan

[Silanah]

Alright, so I will jump on the Kaschan train. I don't hate Atrahal's case, it's about as strong as any of the other cases, and I am very much interested in getting a lynch today. It's the only other train that I can jump on at the moment.

remove vote
vote Kaschan

[Silanah]

8 anonymouses, there should be plenty of people online to get a lynch. Come on guys, we're only about 35 mins away from end of Day.

[Korvalain]

Atrahal, you bitch.

Your poor interpretation of my posts makes me sad inside.

My Karosis vote was based on that post, which brings killing up out of nowhere. My point being that he is either putting pressure on or pushing buttons, signaling to who he knows is a killer (poorly, I might add) or trying to stir controversy Korbas's way as scum.

Shit. I just remembered this is M&P. Does this mean no roled town? My basis was that his actions made him unlikely to be roled town, and therefore a better lynch than a rando.

Either way, Kaschan has majority now, so

remove vote

Vote kaschan

[Karosis]

I'm around a few more minutes

[Korvalain]

Hopping in the shower and grabbing lunch. Might not e back before timeout. So don't go switching on me

[Fener]

I'm here, very sorry for being away. Going to catch up as fast as I can.

[Ampelas]

 Silanah, on 17 July 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Hour and a half till lynch, I smell a no-lynch, and that makes me sad!

I am around, so will move my vote if necessary to get a lynch, but for now I still like Karosis best.

There's no problem with a no-lynch. Day 1 lynches are generall good because they provide information for day 2, but if it's not going to happen, there's no reason to force it. A dozen votes suddenly piling on at the last second just to have a lynch doesn't get any extra info. So let it time-out, I say, at this point we won't get anything more.

[Kaschan]

I make half a case, refresh the thread, and find the train heading my way. We've disregarded the part where Anthras has been involved in apparent symp signaling all game, starting from the second page between himself, Silanah, and Atrahal that Shelly pointed out:

 Sheltatha Lore, on 16 July 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

 Anthras, on 16 July 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Remove Vote

Vote Silanah

I'm in that video!

 Atrahal, on 16 July 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Believe it or not, I'm one of the shadows in the very first part of this video. I'm the hotest one lol *winky face* I'm so random! And talented of course.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Looks like day one signalling to me.

Then Atrahal shows up as Amp applies some pressure to Anthras and immediately puts up an inaccurate analsysis of korv's votes to push the train toward me. Seems like he's trying to back his own master up.

Vote Anthras

This post has been edited by Kaschan: 17 July 2012 - 04:35 PM

[Kaschan]

 Atrahal, on 17 July 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Fuck me, i'm way ahead with posts! That never usually happens! Where is a certain someone with his 100 posts a day?

If Fener hasn't posted then he must be scum!!

Vote Fener

Above, An example of fishing for a reaction from low poster. nothing suspicious really. And fener didn't defensively respond, which makes me think he/she is actually busy and can't post.

It is a continuation of the "Fener must be scum" joke that goes back a few years I think, but that's still some deflection right there. More to come.

[Silanah]

 Ampelas, on 17 July 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

 Silanah, on 17 July 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Hour and a half till lynch, I smell a no-lynch, and that makes me sad!

I am around, so will move my vote if necessary to get a lynch, but for now I still like Karosis best.

There's no problem with a no-lynch. Day 1 lynches are generall good because they provide information for day 2, but if it's not going to happen, there's no reason to force it. A dozen votes suddenly piling on at the last second just to have a lynch doesn't get any extra info. So let it time-out, I say, at this point we won't get anything more.

Though you're generally right, I still disagree with the 'there's no problem with a no-lynch' statement. Regardless of whether it's done in the last hour of the day, I would rather have a lynch then to make the game longer for no reason. Without a lynch, or at least something close to a lynch, we get zero information. I dunno, I think it's pretty scummy to say it's okay not to lynch. If there are no roled town, then the lynch is our only means to get rid of scum. Better to lynch randomly and possibly land on scum then to not lynch at all. At least in the former, there's a small percentage of a chance to hit scum.

[Korvalain]

Its not even that small. With 2 scum in 14 players its over 14%. With 3 scum its 21%

[Fener]

Ok, my basic understanding of the current situation.

There were a couple of early potential signalling things. I'm inclined to agree with anthras that these tend to be flimsy.
However, it's day one, everything tends to be flimsy. The case on Kaschan isn't much better. It is a combination of him potentially lurking and Korv possibly symping him. The first is not exactly the worst offense, he offered a plausible explanation, and it's not like that he was lurking at a crucial moment or when under pressure or something. As for the symping, I don't see it as particularly damning. He votes me while people were chatting about Kasch. He did offer an opinion on Kaschan, and it didn't seem anything like an attempt to de-rail the discussion, more of a joke vote than anything.

Also, I noticed Anthras suggesting going for low posters earlier, saying he thinks scum would want to be posting low (but not too low, so he suggested going for not quite the lowest but someone not posting much). I agree with him that people not posting content do hurt the innos, as it can give scum somewhere to hide if they're low posting. Otoh, it seemed a tad dubious pigeonholing scum as low posters after post padding so majorly.

[Kaschan]

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

You know. Fuck it. No one is mentioning the elephant in the room. Korvalian. He is obviously the symp or is acting that way. His erratic play since coming back is telling.

There are a few votes out there and I cannot follow his vote.

Silanah did and has been pointed out as potential scum. I don't agree with this yet.

Who is Korv symping though? Kaschan? Korbas?

Anthras isn't being consistent here. He suggests Korv might be symping Korbas when he just earlier thought he was accusing him of being scummy:

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

so you vote fener and point at Korbas saying he is most scummy. That's two people in 5 minutes.

Even though at this point Korv hadn't accused Korbas of being the scum, but Karosis.


And he also says he can't track Korv's votes when Korv had only made 10 posts at that time. I remember reading through Korv's posts once I saw Anthras claim he couldn't follow what Korv was doing. At that point he had:
1.) Voted Kaschan (joke vote for quoting call me maybe on page 1 or 2)
2.) Voted Fener (joke vote for Fener = scum)
3.) Voted Karosis (for the Karosis/Korbas "death threat" bit)

That was it. At this point Anthras was just grasping at straws to throw the vote onto anyone but himself and his symp, who had already signaled him. That's all scum really needs on day 1: to make sure none of them die. It doesn't become important exactly who gets lynched until later in the game when there's a host of evidence and previous posts accumulated.

[Anthras]

Before I wrote that amp was partnered tokaschan but then I had to leave my computer. If kasch is scum then amp is his partner

[Kaschan]

 Anthras, on 17 July 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Before I wrote that amp was partnered tokaschan but then I had to leave my computer. If kasch is scum then amp is his partner

Just like that, posting random bullshit as fact in an attempt to get someone you believe/know isn't your symp lynched.