[Kanese S's]

Being Elder doesn't have much correlation with being unstoppable or any such thing. It just means a being is old as dirt.

[Z'ress]

Kanese S, on 05 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Being Elder doesn't have much correlation with being unstoppable or any such thing. It just means a being is old as dirt.

being old as dirt in the malazan empire also means resilient as hell.

[Brujah]

With 28 responses, was hoping for 50, Anomander Rake shall rank above Draconus.

I admit, I'm one of those who would probably give the edge to Draconus, but Anomander, in terms of percent of voters, is the clear favorite.

Consider this pairing closed, although nothing should prevent anyone from still voting.

[Tattersail_]

Ano put Draconus in Dragnipur huzzah!

[Kanese S's]

Brujah, on 24 August 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

With 28 responses, was hoping for 50, Anomander Rake shall rank above Draconus.

I admit, I'm one of those who would probably give the edge to Draconus, but Anomander, in terms of percent of voters, is the clear favorite.

Consider this pairing closed, although nothing should prevent anyone from still voting.

I'm still not sure about why you think Draconus would beat Anomander. Perhaps the exact details of their battle will be revealed in the Kharkanas trilogy, but as of what we know for certain now, they did indeed fight, and Anomander won the duel.

[Kanese S's]

Z, on 05 July 2012 - 10:37 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 05 July 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

Being Elder doesn't have much correlation with being unstoppable or any such thing. It just means a being is old as dirt.

being old as dirt in the malazan empire also means resilient as hell.

Does it? I don't think it works that way. A few elder beings have gotten killed in not that impressive of ways. While the summoning of demons does take considerable sorcerous skill, there are several mortal mages running around who can do it. How resilient, then, was Nightchill, who was ripped apart by demons that had been summoned outside Pale? That's really not a particularly impressive end for a peer of Draconus.

Olar Ethil's end was even more ignominous. A single projectile to the forehead from a wounded Awl warrior did her in.

One of the Wolves of Winter was killed in rather straight forward fashion by mortal soldiers, IIRC.

Silchas Ruin, also old and badass, got knocked out of the sky rather unceremoniously, in dragon form even, by a soldier using an explosive device common to a mortal empire's military.

Besides which, Draconus isn't even all that much older than Anomander Rake, from what little I've read of FoD. Anomander was around before Draconus was a deity. And seeing as how he believed Rake to be too merciful to wield Dragnipur, I very much doubt he lost willingly.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 24 August 2012 - 09:46 PM

[Brujah]

Kanese S, on 24 August 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Brujah, on 24 August 2012 - 08:28 AM, said:

With 28 responses, was hoping for 50, Anomander Rake shall rank above Draconus.

I admit, I'm one of those who would probably give the edge to Draconus, but Anomander, in terms of percent of voters, is the clear favorite.

Consider this pairing closed, although nothing should prevent anyone from still voting.

I'm still not sure about why you think Draconus would beat Anomander. Perhaps the exact details of their battle will be revealed in the Kharkanas trilogy, but as of what we know for certain now, they did indeed fight, and Anomander won the duel.

I'm actually ok with shifting the edge in power back to Anomandaris. I had them so close in my mind, but seeing how they were viewed by so many others helps me place them a little better.

nd I'd love to get some Kharkanas Trilogy info, stats, facts, etc up in here..please respect spoilers.

[Kanese S's]

This is the General Book forum. Isn't that spoilers for entire series?

In any case, even though I think Anomander would win, since he, you know, did, Draconus is still a badass motherfucker.

How much info the Kharkanas trilogy will reveal I have no idea. Draconus was obviously still around to, along with K'rul and Nightchill, basically tell Kallor what an asshole he was, so I guess the duel was after that.

I would say they are close, but for whatever reason, Rake had enough of an edge in the fight to win. May not have taken much.

[Brujah]

Ok, thanks for clearing up the spoiler issue, I wasn't sure. So everything should be safe to post, and that's excellent.

[RSM616]

i think they are equal as although rake has beaten draconus before there was more to it than just 2 powerful ascendants fighting. in a fair fight with no ulterior motives i think its 50/50

[Brujah]

RSM616, on 25 August 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

i think they are equal as although rake has beaten draconus before there was more to it than just 2 powerful ascendants fighting. in a fair fight with no ulterior motives i think its 50/50

Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I think theirs was the fight that lasted 3 days. That's a really long time to fight.

Combined with the fact that Kallor cursed Draconus:

" He and his siblings cursed Kallor to live forever and never ascend, and yet still suffer the ravages of time. At the same time, Kallor used the power of hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by the collapse of his empire to curse Draconus. The curse was that Draconus would be "[imprisoned] in a creation of his own making".

I've always been unable to use their ancient battle as a true indication because of Kallor's curse.

[RSM616]

Brujah, on 25 August 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

RSM616, on 25 August 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

i think they are equal as although rake has beaten draconus before there was more to it than just 2 powerful ascendants fighting. in a fair fight with no ulterior motives i think its 50/50

Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I think theirs was the fight that lasted 3 days. That's a really long time to fight.

Combined with the fact that Kallor cursed Draconus:

" He and his siblings cursed Kallor to live forever and never ascend, and yet still suffer the ravages of time. At the same time, Kallor used the power of hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by the collapse of his empire to curse Draconus. The curse was that Draconus would be "[imprisoned] in a creation of his own making".

I've always been unable to use their ancient battle as a true indication because of Kallor's curse.

I think with the Andii trilogy being released it will help give a much clearer view of the powers of the different elders and hopefully give a clearer view on all the myths and stories that have been hinted at in TMBoF series. We might have a while to wait to get more answers but so far even the first novel has cleared up alot i.e the title of first son of dark and draconus relationship to mother dark. Hopefully by the end of this it will give a clear view of the Draconus vs Anomander debate although knowing Eriksson's writing he will probably created a 1000 more questions than answers

[Kanese S's]

Brujah, on 25 August 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

RSM616, on 25 August 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

i think they are equal as although rake has beaten draconus before there was more to it than just 2 powerful ascendants fighting. in a fair fight with no ulterior motives i think its 50/50

Yeah, I don't remember exactly, but I think theirs was the fight that lasted 3 days. That's a really long time to fight.

Combined with the fact that Kallor cursed Draconus:

" He and his siblings cursed Kallor to live forever and never ascend, and yet still suffer the ravages of time. At the same time, Kallor used the power of hundreds of thousands of deaths caused by the collapse of his empire to curse Draconus. The curse was that Draconus would be "[imprisoned] in a creation of his own making".

I've always been unable to use their ancient battle as a true indication because of Kallor's curse.

I always interpreted it as just that the sword used to best him the duel would be Dragnipur.

[blackzoid]

This quote of Rake fighting Draconus for 3 days is banded about occassionally. Not trying to be annoying, but.....where did this quote come from?
People quote it and as far as I am aware it's not in the books.

[beru]

Its from Moi i belive...

[blackzoid]

Where in MOI? I'm almost 100% certain it was never mentioned in there.
I've reread that book loads of times and I've never seen it mentioned.

Can I have the exact scene if you don't mind?

[beru]

I suddenly got a bit unshure, but i guess a scene with envy...



Edit: It might also be from TTH, but i remember it quite vividly. On the other hand i do remember things like this wrong from time to time...

This post has been edited by beru: 29 August 2012 - 07:32 PM

[blackzoid]

If you are talking about the scene with Anomander tlaking with Envy at the end, no. I've just checked that.
I'm pretty certain that this is a Malazan forum meme that has never actually been double-checked.

[beru]

it would be earlier in the book, but it might be Endest Silan or somone who talks about it in TTH too, or even Silchas Ruin in RG,,,

[Destiny]

Hmm I seem to recall it being 3 days as well. But I can't possibly say where I read that.

I don't want to give away any spoilers, but FoD changes things a lot about how we see Anomander and Draconus.