[Votan]

So who is the most powerful Elder God?

I see these as the top contenders (no particular order):

Burn
K'rul (pre-curse obviously)
Draconus
Mother Dark


What say you?

[Aptorian]

The one that has the most to lose and the least or most to gain.

Recall the speech Mael (Erikson) did in Dust of Dreams. It is not about power. It's about potential. And even that can be swept aside by furious determination.

But if we're talking about the ones who potentially have the most power to draw on, then it has to be the ones that are still active and have a following. So, probably Mael. There's no end to the blood that flows into his realm.

I suspect that most of the newer gods rival or even surpass the older ones in this age.

This post has been edited by Aptorius: 24 June 2012 - 03:33 PM

[Votan]

Aptorius, on 24 June 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I suspect that most of the newer gods rival or even surpass the older ones in this age.

Even Draconus?

[Aptorian]

I would call about even odds on Cotillion or Dassem walking away from an encounter with Draconus and his sword.

[the broken]

Aptorius, on 24 June 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I would call about even odds on Cotillion or Dassem walking away from an encounter with Draconus and his sword.

Assuming he lets them close enough to use it. I mean, Rake is even fighting Dassem with a sword, but what if he just veered and obliterated him with his warren?

[RetiredTalon]

Spoiler

I mean Rake kills Draconus, Dassem kills Rake (may not have been trying) but I still think that Dassem would kill Draconus. Dassems such a badass

This post has been edited by RetiredTalon: 24 June 2012 - 10:45 PM

[Vaddon Ra]

Votan, on 24 June 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

So who is the most powerful Elder God?

I see these as the top contenders (no particular order):

Burn
K'rul (pre-curse obviously)
Draconus
Mother Dark


What say you?

Tiam,
lol its all dependent on worshippers, although krul is technically like God, proper biblical, make everything and is everywhere badass, God, he is the paths of magic and thus if he was in full power I guess it would be kru'll from him came the first warrens from his heart (quote* MOI) Starvald and KG
there you goes

[worry]

He didn't create the oldest warrens...he incorporated them into his heart to help generate and fuel the new warrens.

[Kanese S's]

Votan, on 24 June 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Aptorius, on 24 June 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I suspect that most of the newer gods rival or even surpass the older ones in this age.

Even Draconus?

Draconus has not enjoyed widespread worship for thousands of years. He might be personally pretty badass, but in terms of gods, he doesn't have a whole lot of power.

[Votan]

I guess we'll see, but I don't think that's true at all. Draconus is treated like the biggest thing walking after he's freed. Anomander counted on him to fill the void his death left, as well.

[worry]

I think every time someone winces at a bump in the night or at the howl of a coyote, it's an act of worshiping Draconus -- whether they know it or not.

[Kanese S's]

Votan, on 25 June 2012 - 03:09 AM, said:

I guess we'll see, but I don't think that's true at all. Draconus is treated like the biggest thing walking after he's freed. Anomander counted on him to fill the void his death left, as well.

Anomander wasn't a god, however, just an extremely powerful ascendant. New has usually beaten old. Anomander was a big presence, and powerful, but he did retreat from a mortal empire, twice. Perhaps Draconus might be up to taking up his place, but I don't think that makes him the most powerful deity.

Recall that Draconus is essentially a peer of K'rul and the Sister of Cold Nights. When they appeared together, they certainly seem to have behaved as equals. Where are they now? Well, K'rul has a shadow of his former power, having been largely inactive for centuries, and must move very cautiously. Sister of Cold Nights, in turn, got killed by a mortal sorcerer.

Why would Draconus, despite being very formidable, be instantly the most powerful deity right after getting out of ascendant super-jail? Usually in this series, entities that have been inactive for long spans of time, if they suddenly become active again, immediately get humbled pretty badly.

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 25 June 2012 - 04:29 AM

[Defiance]

Draconus kill two Elder Gods like they were swiss cheese, obliterated a Jade Statue (although there's nothing to compare this with), and annihilated some 50,000 people, and it didn't even seem like he broke a sweat doing so. Granted, we haven't seen Draconus face someone with both power and intelligence, but I think it's safe to say he's pretty fucking powerful.

Ultimate power doesn't exist in the Malazan universe, at least as far as I can determine. Everyone is vulnerable, and many times it's just as much about circumstance as it is about one's power and intelligence.

[Sinisdar Toste]

look at it this way, if draconus and calm faced off across a bloody field, it would be a titanic battle that went down for the ages. but either one of them would hit the dirt if ublala pung mace'd them in the head with a dragon bone while they weren't looking.

[Brujah]

Sinisdar Toste, on 25 June 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

look at it this way, if draconus and calm faced off across a bloody field, it would be a titanic battle that went down for the ages. but either one of them would hit the dirt if ublala pung mace'd them in the head with a dragon bone while they weren't looking.

Why did you choose Calm? There is no way to truely answer these questions without SE stepping in, so we can only go on individual opinions based on how they feel each characters power was presented.
In saying that, I'd see Draconus EASILY killing Calm. I'd see him easily killing all 8 of those Pures at the same time.
Like someone already said, he EASILY killed two Elder Gods. One was Kilmandaros who was considered one of the stronger ones.
I'm going to assume that Rake let Dassem win. Draconus let Rake win, no matter how its spun.
I rank them like this in my mind. (Opinion Only)

Draconus/Mother Dark/Father Light - Top Tier
Rake/Osseric/Gothos - Just Below Top
Everyone else

[Kanese S's]

I disagree. Anyone can kill anyone. Plus, the elder gods that Draconus killed had the same kind of arrogance that usually gets hoary old bastards killed in this series. Neither had been all that relevant to most of the world for centuries.

[D'rek]

Kanese S, on 25 June 2012 - 10:59 PM, said:

I disagree. Anyone can kill anyone. Plus, the elder gods that Draconus killed had the same kind of arrogance that usually gets hoary old bastards killed in this series. Neither had been all that relevant to most of the world for centuries.

Neither had Draconus, really. So they were all irrelevent in the grander schemes kinda way - no worshippers, no control, ergo no power beyond the power they wield themselves in their own forms. But whereas Killy and Sechul seem to have sat on their butts in an underwater Azath for the last few millenia getting skinny and weak, Draconus was continuously engaged in the most grueling exercise regimen imaginable.

[Kanese S's]

True. I'm just not sure that killing Kilmandaros and Sechul was particularly impressive. As you say, they had been sitting around doing nothing for quite a while, whereas Draconus, though not being worshiped or active in world affairs, spent all that time pulling the gate of darkness away from chaos.

[Brujah]

I think killing two elder gods, even those two, and especially Kilmandaros was actually a huge display of power. I think it helps to indicate at least to a certain degree of minimum power.

Now like I said, there's still a lot of personal opinion involved, and I don't really this any of us can be right or wrong, but in my mind, I think killing these two ranked him above all the elder gods.

Even these two have to at least be as powerful together as any ONE other elder god, FOR TUE MOST PART, while having to allow for certain fluctuations or deviations.

S. Ruin and Tulas Shorn refer to Draconus killing off all the Gods that he feels needs to die. They are both Ancient Eleints, yet consider Draconus more powerful than they are, and also believe he can kill whomever he wants.
Draconus is even talked about being unstoppable with Rake being dead. So many consider Rake and Draconus to he two of the top powers. Rake talks about fighting Osseric to standstills, so I make them equal. And the way Rake talks about Draconus throughout the series, then the words they finally Exchange inside Draginpur leads me to rank Draconus slightly higher than Rake.
I am gonna assume that Mother Dark and Father Light are the two most ancient forces, the first to appear from Chaos, and therefore most powerful in my mind, until proven otherwise. The fact that Mother Dark takes Draconus as a lover makes me place him at the top with the two, yet I may have to bump him slightly below MD and FL. But still slightly above Rake, Osseric, and Gothos.
Below this tier I might place Hood, Mael, ........not sure who else.
That's just how they fit and feel in my mind. It's the way the story seems to present itself to me.

I bet even if we all had different orders of ranks, we could still find certain similarities.

[Kanese S's]

Being ancient doesn't make you more powerful by default in this series. Draconus is powerful because he is powerful, not because he is ancient.

After all, Karsa Orlong isn't ancient at all, and handily killed two Deragoth, which of course were ancient terrors.