[Korvalain]

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

So when I read the night scene, I thought that Meanas's role was a silencer... Then I reread it, and realized that he IS Silencer. So, straight off the bat, I would say the killers are trying to make it seem like I'm the one that went after Meanas - I'd just like to say right up front that it would have been a very dumb move for me to kill the person I had an on-thread fight with, so I'm hoping that no one takes it that way. I think we should start looking at people who weren't too close to Meanas during day yesterday. I've still got a D'Riss itch, but I'll take some time to go through the thread again, see if I can pick up anything more interesting.

I'm thinking someone distanced from Meanas and the Korbas lynch. D'riss, and Amp fit that profile. Fener was an after the fact vote, and he really didn't have any interaction with Meanas other than joke voting.

[Eloth]

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 06:28 PM, said:

Possible, I guess, given that (meta warning) this game isn't intended to last that long. Assuming the killers kill one person per night, and we lynch someone every day, that's P (population) - 2 every cycle. With P starting at 13, and SP (scum population) = 3, that gives 4 cycles before SP = SVC. Add a town vig to that, and assuming the vig is used each cycle, P - 3 each cycle gives only 3 complete cycles before SVC, assuming vigs and lynches miss scum targets. Is 3 complete cycles enough for a short game? I'd be inclined to say not, and thus would be inclined to think we don't have a vig. Happy to be proved wrong though!

In the past we have had mini's that only lasted for 2 cycles. They were actually balanced too. I wouldn't say that a 3 cycle game is to short.

[Korvalain]

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Anyone else find this a little weird?

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

Ampelas posted very little in terms of content, then said he was going to bed, and threw a completely useless vote at Anomandaris without any explanation whatsoever for why. I think of everyone who was posting yesterday, Anomandaris seemed pretty level headed, didn't make any blatantly obvious scum moves, etc. Thought that COULD be an indication of why Amp voted for him, I'd like to hear Amp's reasoning for an Anomandaris vote.

xpost with Karosis. I agree, that was totally out in left field.

[Karosis]

Another thing that I noticed that rang some bells is that both Atrahal and Eloth made a case against Omtose then jumped on one of the lynch trains almost immediately after that. I'm still digging to get something more substantial... Of the two, I like Atrahal's posts the least - he didn't seem to create much accusations himself, but used other people's accusations to put fire under the lynch Korbas train (i.e. Korbas stated he was town, which Liosan first pointed out, then basically agreeing with D'riss' accusation that Korbas was suspicious). Just seems a little scummy to me, so right now, I'm looking at either Ampelas or Atrahal. Will lay a vote down when I get some more information!

[Eloth]

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

Another thing that I noticed that rang some bells is that both Atrahal and Eloth made a case against Omtose then jumped on one of the lynch trains almost immediately after that. I'm still digging to get something more substantial... Of the two, I like Atrahal's posts the least - he didn't seem to create much accusations himself, but used other people's accusations to put fire under the lynch Korbas train (i.e. Korbas stated he was town, which Liosan first pointed out, then basically agreeing with D'riss' accusation that Korbas was suspicious). Just seems a little scummy to me, so right now, I'm looking at either Ampelas or Atrahal. Will lay a vote down when I get some more information!

I still like Omtose for scum. I felt that I made my case to late in the day to actually get a lynch, and it is better to lynch then not to. Even in this case. Someone stating that they are town in mafia is worth a less then nothing. So I am not going to hold that against Liosan. To go back to the Omtose case. I feel that yesterday he was interacting with players but not putting his neck out. Of course the same thing can be said of Ampelas. But my attention was grabbed by Omtose. See my previous case for the quotes.

Vote Omtose

[Omtose]

Way to go dipshits.

Vote Korvalain

That was a lovely derail, and I'd put money on Eloth being a symp.


@Eloth, your "case" is based on me not putting my neck out.

1) I voted for Korv early, and I stuck with my vote.
2) I stated outright that I didn't think Korbas was as scummy as Korvalain. I could have been wishy washy and said "oh, I think he's scummy too and I'll switch at will". But instead, I gave a clear opinion.
3) I was also being a dick at the beginning of the game.

I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to do to "stick my neck out" on day 1. I mean, you didnt even stick your neck IN to the game until it came time to derail and lynch the finder....

[D'riss]

well, that was not an ideal outcome, but at least we got the lynch, and more to work with.

these comments are coming without the benefit of a reread, so they are just impressions at this stage. I get the feeling Ampelas is a bored townie. the extreme lack of play is not really consistent with what I'd expect of scum, they try not to stand out, and one of the best ways to stand out is to drop a vote with no reasoning. in saying that, I would still like to hear the reason for his vote.

I think there might be something in the case against Omtose, but I'd like a reread before I comment further. same goes for atrahal.

in response to Fener: I wasn't "jumping all over your case", first, it wasn't a case, and second, I agreed that it was something to watch, it just wasn't worth a vote. the difference between this 'slip' and the one in the previous game is that that one could only have been made by Batman as he was the only one who wasn't a criminal. scum in this game are unlikely to forget that there are two of them. it's possible he is referring to the second killer if he is the first, I just find it unlikely.

and I don't care how many times I am accused of sympage, I'm going to keep objecting to cases or statements I disagree with.

[Ampelas]

Here.

[Ampelas]

Townie desperate to avoid a no lynch (with several hours left in the day)? Or bloodthirsty killer looking to start evening the odds quickly?

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

I mean whatever Meanas or anybody says can't change anything this early and if we don't finish it now there is
a chance that they won't finish it later.

Anthras, on 19 June 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

We are losing a lynch guys, pls vote Somebody so we will get the lynch at least.

[Korvalain]

Ampelas, on 19 June 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Here.

You've got to be fucking kidding me. If you are scum and manage to "Here" and "Here again" your way to victory I'm going to nominate you for MOM.

[Ampelas]

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Anyone else find this a little weird?

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

Ampelas posted very little in terms of content, then said he was going to bed, and threw a completely useless vote at Anomandaris without any explanation whatsoever for why. I think of everyone who was posting yesterday, Anomandaris seemed pretty level headed, didn't make any blatantly obvious scum moves, etc. Thought that COULD be an indication of why Amp voted for him, I'd like to hear Amp's reasoning for an Anomandaris vote.

At the time the numbers of votes on individuals were low and it was still early in the day, so it wouldn't have been a useless vote if people had decided to follow it. Certainly, it would have been a better choice than Korbas?

I chose Anomandaris because I chose between him and Liosan. At the time they were both in the middle posters, and Anomandaris appeared the more....what did you call it, level-headed? That's it exactly. Non-commital is another way of putting it.


Having said that, out of everything that came up after I left, I liked Eloth's case on Omtose the best. It always raises my suspicions when someone on day 1 talks about not believing another player's CF will come up scum. How would you know on day 1? What exactly are you basing this almost-certainty on, unless you have some prior knowledge? And who has prior knowledge in an M&P game? Only one answer to that (well, fine, two if you count symp ).

[Ampelas]

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Karosis, on 19 June 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

So when I read the night scene, I thought that Meanas's role was a silencer... Then I reread it, and realized that he IS Silencer. So, straight off the bat, I would say the killers are trying to make it seem like I'm the one that went after Meanas - I'd just like to say right up front that it would have been a very dumb move for me to kill the person I had an on-thread fight with, so I'm hoping that no one takes it that way. I think we should start looking at people who weren't too close to Meanas during day yesterday. I've still got a D'Riss itch, but I'll take some time to go through the thread again, see if I can pick up anything more interesting.

I'm thinking someone distanced from Meanas and the Korbas lynch. D'riss, and Amp fit that profile. Fener was an after the fact vote, and he really didn't have any interaction with Meanas other than joke voting.

Really? So I distanced from the Korbas lynch before the Korbas lynch had even got going? A Korbas lynch which fired up after I left the thread all day? Genius.

[Omtose]

To recap, Karosis voted and put Korv at 5 votes, while Korbas was at 3.

Eloth votes for me, and then "because he wants a lynch" switches to Korbas making it 5 to 4.

Atrahal is the swing vote, and he references me as perhaps protecting Korbas. Korbas himself then comes on and does the sensible thing of voting Korv, making it 5 to 5 since Atrahal was voting for Korv initially.

Then Liosan votes Korbas, putting Korbas ahead.

Karosis hammers.


Looking at this, Eloth does two things -

He is the one who starts the swing from Korv to Korbas. In doing so, he attacks me (an early Korv voter) and essentially sets me up as his Day 2 lynch choice, which he has followed up on with his vote today. Also notice, that Eloth disappears after the vote swings and doesn't comment again until the next day begins. He never really offered an opinion on Korv, except to say "he'd be willing to switch for a lynch" which tells us nothing.

Atrahal was the real swing vote by removing from Korv to vote for Korbas, so that bears keeping in mind as well.

[Omtose]

I know it seems like it's all too simple, but this all screams to me that Korv is scum and Eloth is his symp.




edit: "too simplistic" to "all too simple" since that makes more sense.

This post has been edited by Omtose: 19 June 2012 - 10:26 PM

[Korvalain]

The Omtose case isn't bad.

But re-reading, I didn't like Fener's vote hopping, and this sort of thing always bugs me:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

D, on 19 June 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

First,
remove vote

Next: Y'know, I find this from Ampelas slightly weird. Why? Because we are told in the OP that there are paired killers and a symp, and specifically that PS was killed by two men. Yet Ampelas claims he's voted Anomandaris "Because he's the killer". Singular. Why would he refer to a singular killer and not (as I would find more natural) one of a pair. Unless he's the other killer!

I knonw it's tentative, but I've just woken up, and it seems to me that this is the kind of minor slip most likely to occur on Day 1. Thus:

Vote Ampelas

I think this is probably a townie who hasn't been reading properly. Surely scum would be more likely to remember that there are two killers? It's something to keep in mind, but I don't think it is worth voting someone over.

Catching up, and I find this response to my (admittedly weak) proto-case against Ampelas being jumped all over by D'riss. Plausible defence, but isn't this the kind of thing we should be alert for on Day 1? I say again, I find Ampelas's original post (quoted above) suspicious -- perhaps moreso because in the last game, Starling almost gave herself away on Day 1 by a similar category error.
And now D'riss is looking like a symp, because surely the posting style of a symp is going to be just what D'riss does above: invoke Day 1 'ill-preparedness' not much else.

I'm sure I read a response from Ampelas to the above, but I can't find it on-thread now
In any case, it doesn't appear that there'll be much movement voting-wise from the above, but I think it bears repeating. And I reserve the right to shout "I Told You So" loudly and obnoxiously should I be proved right.

But, in the interests of getting a Day 1 lynch:

Remove vote

Vote Korbas

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Bah, I was too late.

I feel like that kind of last minute hammer looks a lot like trying to blend in with the town.

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Well, at least we now know that there are townies with roles -- maybe a doc among us? Definitely be worth being substantive with cases from now on. I realise my vote for Korb above, though late, would have ticked us over to night and mea proxima culpa, but hey -- wasn'me!

And Eloth or Karosis pointed out that this looks a lot like fishing for other roled players. FFS if you are roled please don't reveal! You may as well be painting a target on yourself.

vote Fener

[Korvalain]

Korvalain, on 19 June 2012 - 10:30 PM, said:

The Omtose case isn't bad.

But re-reading, I didn't like Fener's vote hopping, and this sort of thing always bugs me:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

D, on 19 June 2012 - 08:42 AM, said:

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 08:22 AM, said:

Ampelas, on 18 June 2012 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I've just realised I'm not going to be around at all for the next 22 hours or so, so I'm placing my vote now.

Vote Anomandaris

Because he's the killer. Duh.

First,
remove vote

Next: Y'know, I find this from Ampelas slightly weird. Why? Because we are told in the OP that there are paired killers and a symp, and specifically that PS was killed by two men. Yet Ampelas claims he's voted Anomandaris "Because he's the killer". Singular. Why would he refer to a singular killer and not (as I would find more natural) one of a pair. Unless he's the other killer!

I knonw it's tentative, but I've just woken up, and it seems to me that this is the kind of minor slip most likely to occur on Day 1. Thus:

Vote Ampelas

I think this is probably a townie who hasn't been reading properly. Surely scum would be more likely to remember that there are two killers? It's something to keep in mind, but I don't think it is worth voting someone over.

Catching up, and I find this response to my (admittedly weak) proto-case against Ampelas being jumped all over by D'riss. Plausible defence, but isn't this the kind of thing we should be alert for on Day 1? I say again, I find Ampelas's original post (quoted above) suspicious -- perhaps moreso because in the last game, Starling almost gave herself away on Day 1 by a similar category error.
And now D'riss is looking like a symp, because surely the posting style of a symp is going to be just what D'riss does above: invoke Day 1 'ill-preparedness' not much else.

I'm sure I read a response from Ampelas to the above, but I can't find it on-thread now
In any case, it doesn't appear that there'll be much movement voting-wise from the above, but I think it bears repeating. And I reserve the right to shout "I Told You So" loudly and obnoxiously should I be proved right.

But, in the interests of getting a Day 1 lynch:

Remove vote

Vote Korbas

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:22 PM, said:

Bah, I was too late.

I feel like that kind of last minute hammer looks a lot like trying to blend in with the town.

Fener, on 19 June 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

Well, at least we now know that there are townies with roles -- maybe a doc among us? Definitely be worth being substantive with cases from now on. I realise my vote for Korb above, though late, would have ticked us over to night and mea proxima culpa, but hey -- wasn'me!

And Eloth or Karosis pointed out that this looks a lot like fishing for other roled players. FFS if you are roled please don't reveal! You may as well be painting a target on yourself.

vote Fener

Oh and this is a correction (I didn't want to edit) I know Fener DIDN'T hammer, but the point is the way he tried to after the fact.

[Atrahal]

Omtose, on 19 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

To recap, Karosis voted and put Korv at 5 votes, while Korbas was at 3.

Eloth votes for me, and then "because he wants a lynch" switches to Korbas making it 5 to 4.

Atrahal is the swing vote, and he references me as perhaps protecting Korbas. Korbas himself then comes on and does the sensible thing of voting Korv, making it 5 to 5 since Atrahal was voting for Korv initially.

Then Liosan votes Korbas, putting Korbas ahead.

Karosis hammers.


Looking at this, Eloth does two things -

He is the one who starts the swing from Korv to Korbas. In doing so, he attacks me (an early Korv voter) and essentially sets me up as his Day 2 lynch choice, which he has followed up on with his vote today. Also notice, that Eloth disappears after the vote swings and doesn't comment again until the next day begins. He never really offered an opinion on Korv, except to say "he'd be willing to switch for a lynch" which tells us nothing.

Atrahal was the real swing vote by removing from Korv to vote for Korbas, so that bears keeping in mind as well.

Omtose, this is a good point and observation. Really, my reasoning was as follows:

Korv's reaction to my "case" was indeed interesting, in fact he was overly dramatic, acting like a stuck pig. I decided to let him carry on and see if we could get more info out of him. Meanwhile, I looked into what was happening with the other prime suspect, Korb. Mainly what I was looking for, and still am, was an indication that someone was trying to steer the vote carefully away from Korb. That person was you.

It should be noted that Anthras, when looking at the voting options, said it was between Korv and Meanas, completely ignoring the fact that Korb was up in the vote count.

This collection of findings indicated that either someone was backing Korb because they knew him (symp or scum partner) or because they felt his case wasn't stronger than other lynch candidates. That's why I switched over to Korb.

[Korvalain]

Omtose, on 19 June 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

To recap, Karosis voted and put Korv at 5 votes, while Korbas was at 3.

Eloth votes for me, and then "because he wants a lynch" switches to Korbas making it 5 to 4.

Atrahal is the swing vote, and he references me as perhaps protecting Korbas. Korbas himself then comes on and does the sensible thing of voting Korv, making it 5 to 5 since Atrahal was voting for Korv initially.

Then Liosan votes Korbas, putting Korbas ahead.

Karosis hammers.


Looking at this, Eloth does two things -

He is the one who starts the swing from Korv to Korbas. In doing so, he attacks me (an early Korv voter) and essentially sets me up as his Day 2 lynch choice, which he has followed up on with his vote today. Also notice, that Eloth disappears after the vote swings and doesn't comment again until the next day begins. He never really offered an opinion on Korv, except to say "he'd be willing to switch for a lynch" which tells us nothing.

Atrahal was the real swing vote by removing from Korv to vote for Korbas, so that bears keeping in mind as well.

The reason why people chose Korbas over me was because it was a better case. Both cases sucked, asthey usually do on day 1, but Korbas looked scummy because of the way he was playing. While it's possible that Eloth could be fake symping me, if he were really a symp, why stand out on day 1 by creating a new case when there is already a train forming on Korbas?

[Omtose]

For those of you who are saying the omtose case has merit or is good or whatever, would you please elaborate as to why?


Elaborating on your assertion would be good for two reasons.

1) It will help you to sound out your thinking and prove that you aren't being a sheeple.

2) You will immediately become aware of the following :



2 reasons why the Omtose case makes no sense.

1) It is predicated on the idea that I was being smooth and non-confrontational. If you actually look at my play, especially in relation to the play of others, you will realzie this is a completely made up falsehood.

2) It also is based on me steering the lynch away from Korbas. OMG! I didn't vote for the town finder! LYNCH ME NOU! In reality, I did what any normal mafia player does - I looked at two weak day 1 cases and decided one had more merit than the other. It aint rocket science.


That's all I'm going to say about the subject. I'm giong to do a re-read and see if anyone else jumps out at me. I'm at work though, so don't expect it immediately.

[Omtose]

Quote

For those of you who are saying the omtose case has merit or is good or whatever, would you please elaborate as to why?

Speaking to Eloth, Korv and D'riss basically.