[BlackMoranthofDoom]

There is a demon thread, but its over 4 years old and on the RG subforum, so might as well make a new one to avoid spoilers.

What are all the demons we've encountered so far?

Aptorian
Azalan
Korvalah
Kenryll''ah/Keny'llrah (are those terms just used to designate the different social status of ruling and peasant class or are they 2 entirely different races with different physical traits?)
Galayn
Sirinth (is Greyfrog one of them?)
Trollbarahl
Khalibaral? (its on the encyclopedia, but there's no entry for it, so what is it?)
Artorallah (Have we encountered them outside of the description in BH)
Chillbais (Bhokaral?)

What type of demon is Baruk talking to in TTH from the CG realm?
In the previous discussion some users stated that Aral Gamelon was not a physical warren, but on the encyclopedia it says that the kenry''lah come from there).

I would love to learn more about the different Demon races inhabiting the warrens.

[Aptorian]

The demon from the Crippled Gods realm seemed to be a human being. Not an impossible idea given that the Crippled God may be from a parallel universe.

About Aral Gamelon the current theory is that Aral Gamelon is an actual world much like Burn, a planet with its own solar system and all that jazz. It has its own gods and own civilizations. The Kenryl races are from there. So is the Korvalah and Sirith probably. What makes it confusing is that warren associated with summoning and binding demons is called Aral Gamelon as well. Now I can't recall if Aral Gamelon is actually mentioned as a warren after the first book but it could either be a GotMism or maybe the warren is simply the world of Aral Gamelon, just like there is a world inside the elemental warren of Kurald Galain. Maybe there are sorcerers on Aral Gamelon that use Burn as a demonic warren.

We learn in Memories of Ice I think it is, that Demonic summonings and bindings are also connected to necromancy. Not sure what death has to do with demons but we know there is demons in Hoods warren.

[Abyss]

I see the warren 'Aral Gamelon' as a catch-all reference to the practice of summoning and binding demons.

Most if not all come from other dimensions and warrens and only some are from warrens we actually know. The Aprorians, and the Azalan arboreal multi-penis demons Shadowthrone sticks in diamonds and sends to assist Kalam in HoC are all from Meanas.

Greyfrog seems to come from no warren but an entirely separate dimension.

The Kenry'llah are from still another dimension and were engaged in a conflict with a separate race, apparently human-like, when Rhulad intervened in MT. Which would suggest a human-race living in another dimension that would otherwise be considered 'demons'.

As for the Hood's warren link, the implication was that by summoning and binding a demon, the mage was essentially taking control over it's life and death, hence the hood connection.

We saw demons in Hood's warren in TB, but that may have been at a place where Hood's warren overlapped with an Aral Gamelon dimension.

Also, they smell funny.

[worry]

What makes you think the T'rolbarahl were demons, btw? I've forgotten any lore that suggests that's the case.

[HiddenOne]

Aptorius, on 04 June 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

The demon from the Crippled Gods realm seemed to be a human being. Not an impossible idea given that the Crippled God may be from a parallel universe.

About Aral Gamelon the current theory is that Aral Gamelon is an actual world much like Burn, a planet with its own solar system and all that jazz. It has its own gods and own civilizations. The Kenryl races are from there. So is the Korvalah and Sirith probably. What makes it confusing is that warren associated with summoning and binding demons is called Aral Gamelon as well. Now I can't recall if Aral Gamelon is actually mentioned as a warren after the first book but it could either be a GotMism or maybe the warren is simply the world of Aral Gamelon, just like there is a world inside the elemental warren of Kurald Galain. Maybe there are sorcerers on Aral Gamelon that use Burn as a demonic warren.

We learn in Memories of Ice I think it is, that Demonic summonings and bindings are also connected to necromancy. Not sure what death has to do with demons but we know there is demons in Hoods warren.

I would love to read a story about the poor demon summoner that pulls Karsa Orlong into their world, thinking to gain a servant

[D'rek]

Shadow demons:

Azalan - six-limbed, two-phallicked, tree-dwelling demons from Shadow

Aptorian - three-legged, one-eyed demons from Shadow Flat head, long neck, black and hairy all over.

Artorallah - Shadow demons, who in a Shadow flashback are seen sailing ships to raid Aptorian villages


Aral gamelon demons:

Korvalahrai - (singular: Korvalah) Hazy, sea-faring demons from Aral Gamelon that war with the Kenryll'ah

Kenryll'ah / Kenyll'rah - large humanoid race, with knife-like talons, from Aral Gamelon, that get raided by the Korvalahrai



Other demons:

Venath - "enormous, hulking, black-skinned", one of the races used to make Trell

Galayn - Humanoid-ish demon, origin uncertain (or were they said to be from Aral Gamelon?)

Sirinth - Fast, four-legged demon. The Sirinth encoutnered in MoI is not well-described, so this could be Greyfrog's species.

Khalibaral - Encountered by Bugg in MT, but not described

---

I would not consider the Trohlbarahl to be demons in the Malazan sense - they were created in the HFE, not from some other world. The Tiste races would be more demons than them.

Chillbais/Bhok'aral/Nachts - these are all, IMO, cases of demons ensorcelled into non-demonic bodies. Bhok'aral are not demons, they are native to Wu, but Baruk/Mammot stick demons into them somehow, giving us Moby and the sentient Bhok'aral who retrieve Duiker. The Nachts from the Crippled God seem to be the same thing - Venath stuffed into bhok'aral, though Sandalath makes a distinction of them being Jaghut-created -> maybe the Nachts weren't quite bhok'aral? As for Chillbais, given how much Baruk experiments with this stuff he could be anything, not necessarily a demon from another realm.

[Sinisdar Toste]

and now we've got korus in OST, who claims to be highborn of aral gamelon and who i picture as big birds badass cousin from the bronx. and let's not forget the demon who once ruled shadow as king, Jhedel, liege to the Que'tezani, who inhabit the most distant regions of shadow according to edgewalker.

[worry]

There's an "Imp" and other nameless demons in The Goats of Glory, and they are led by a matron of some sort referred to as a Harridan (a human title for her, not a species name). Their origin is completely up for grabs, but it may mean the areas around Shal-Morzinn deal with demons we don't see elsewhere.

[BlackMoranthofDoom]

D, on 04 June 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

Shadow demons:

Azalan - six-limbed, two-phallicked, tree-dwelling demons from Shadow

Aptorian - three-legged, one-eyed demons from Shadow Flat head, long neck, black and hairy all over.

Artorallah - Shadow demons, who in a Shadow flashback are seen sailing ships to raid Aptorian villages


Aral gamelon demons:

Korvalahrai - (singular: Korvalah) Hazy, sea-faring demons from Aral Gamelon that war with the Kenryll'ah

Kenryll'ah / Kenyll'rah - large humanoid race, with knife-like talons, from Aral Gamelon, that get raided by the Korvalahrai



Other demons:

Venath - "enormous, hulking, black-skinned", one of the races used to make Trell

Galayn - Humanoid-ish demon, origin uncertain (or were they said to be from Aral Gamelon?)

Sirinth - Fast, four-legged demon. The Sirinth encoutnered in MoI is not well-described, so this could be Greyfrog's species.

Khalibaral - Encountered by Bugg in MT, but not described

---

I would not consider the Trohlbarahl to be demons in the Malazan sense - they were created in the HFE, not from some other world. The Tiste races would be more demons than them.

Chillbais/Bhok'aral/Nachts - these are all, IMO, cases of demons ensorcelled into non-demonic bodies. Bhok'aral are not demons, they are native to Wu, but Baruk/Mammot stick demons into them somehow, giving us Moby and the sentient Bhok'aral who retrieve Duiker. The Nachts from the Crippled God seem to be the same thing - Venath stuffed into bhok'aral, though Sandalath makes a distinction of them being Jaghut-created -> maybe the Nachts weren't quite bhok'aral? As for Chillbais, given how much Baruk experiments with this stuff he could be anything, not necessarily a demon from another realm.

1I used the demon classification given by the encyclopedia, that's why I put in Trolbarahl.
2)Do you mean that the Bhokara'l are ensorcelled in the same way as the Pannion condors in MOI?
3)According to Sandalath we don't know which are the original form the Nacht or the Venath. Could they have been creations like the Trollbarahl only by Jaghut instead of human?
4)Where does Bugg encounter the Khalibaral? Does it have anything to do with the demon controlled by Hannan Mosag?

[D'rek]

BlackMoranthofDoom, on 05 June 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

1I used the demon classification given by the encyclopedia, that's why I put in Trolbarahl.

That doesn't make it right...?

BlackMoranthofDoom, on 05 June 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

2)Do you mean that the Bhokara'l are ensorcelled in the same way as the Pannion condors in MOI?

No. The condors were regular birds that Pannion modified with magic, turning them into big magic-spewing monster condors that he could control. But there was no other creature added to the condors.

Baruk's bhokaral are little non-sentient flying monkeys that he has taken sentient demons and magically put the demons inside the bhokaral bodies. It's not clear how he does this, what properties the demons' keep or what happens to the mind/consciousness of the bhokaral in the process.

Mammot's Moby may or may not be the same as Baruk's bhokaral. Moby is a Soletaken demon who can veer into a bhokaral. In this way, Moby is quite like the Nachts.

Unlike Moby, Baruk's bhokaral talk and act sentient, and are very strong. Maybe Baruk just used a more intelligent demon in his, or maybe they are not the same as Moby. There is an excerpt of an essay by Baruk that starts a chapter somewhere which discusses how bhokaral are useful "containers" for demons.

BlackMoranthofDoom, on 05 June 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

3)According to Sandalath we don't know which are the original form the Nacht or the Venath. Could they have been creations like the Trollbarahl only by Jaghut instead of human?

Yes, Sandalath is commenting that with Soletaken it is hard to be sure which form came first, especially if both forms are sentient or nearly sentient. Was Menandore born as a humanoid or as a dragon and then learned to veer to the other? Impossible to say.

In any case, the three Nachts are truly Soletaken that can veer/semble between being big Venath demons and little monkey Nachts. They're not necessarily the same as Baruk's bhokaral, who it seems are not Soletaken, but they could be the same as Moby (especially given how Mammot seemed to be an expert scholar of the Jaghut). I would not say they are like Trohlbarahl, as Trohlbarahl were not necessarily Soletaken, while with the Nachts it seems that being Soletaken was their whole purpose (because who wants to have a giant demon always around breaking things in the house when you can have a pet monkey that only veers when you need it to, instead).

BlackMoranthofDoom, on 05 June 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

4)Where does Bugg encounter the Khalibaral? Does it have anything to do with the demon controlled by Hannan Mosag?

It's in a cave just outside Letheras. The Huntress freezes it and Bugg sticks it under the Eternal Domicile to stop the flooding in the fifth wing.

[Sinisdar Toste]

the condors from MoI are in fact possessed by demons.

tpb pg 1043-44

Quote

'All right, I think they were once real condors, smaller, normal sized, that is. Then the Seer somehow figured out a way of stuffing the birds-'
'Stuffing the birds, ha!" Spindle snickered.
Quick Ben reached out and cuffed the man, 'Don't interrupt again, Spin. Demons, Captain. Possession, which is why their bodies can't quite hold it all.'
'So, demon and bird both.'

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 06 June 2012 - 01:48 AM

[worry]

Oh, Spindle how I love you so!