[D'riss]

So who would you direct attention towards, Spite? Sometimes the only way to wriggle out is to provide a better case. Granted, the case on you in this convoluted situation is pretty good and will be hard to beat, I'll listen. I have a feeling you might CF thug of Town, still.

[Karosis]

Spite, on 10 June 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

OK, look. I was on a big trip without much tech allowed, and so the most clear response to the case I could give was that one.

If you want to be assured of my innocence, I think someone has a knife. Whoever that is, use it on someone and state who on thread. I'll guard the knife user with my bat and the kill won't go through. Then you can all be sure that I'm not BM. If you really want to be sure, I'll target someone with my bat alongside Telas's to prove it.

I am innocent, and if you give me a chance to prove it, I will. Just give me a chance.

If you are suggesting that we don't lynch you to test this, then we will need to lynch someone else. But I see no suggestions on that front from you.

Spite, on 11 June 2012 - 12:54 AM, said:

That order of resolution case was so convoluted and confusing I'll need to go back and reread it a few times before I can comment on it. I seriously hope you do go through with the plan, because if I'm correct, even though BM needs to kill the CLs, they have some serious defense. my guess is that BM took multiple nights to take out Ampelas, so even if it takes a night to test my claim, he won't get far towards the killing of a CL, so you can narrow the pool down by 1, making it almost impossible for BM to hide.

1. Above

2. I see your point, but if BM has 4 lives, I don't think he'd need an accomplice. His 3 other lives would be better than any accomplice

3. While you make a very valid point, firstly, if the "double recruit" is true, then the penguin already has 4 recruits, and even so, we are so fixated on BM right now (which is a good idea) that no one really cares about the recruits. Secondly, CL's are not all knowing. Thirdly, They wouldn't know I wasn't BM. But yes, I recognize that the third point was the least coherent and least thought out point I tried to make, because I didn't realize that the guard would have guarded BM, and therefore the Joker couldn't have been killed (i think).

It is also possible that maybe BM set this up. Framed me as him by guarding me and making me seem like BM while he stayed in the shadows. The only problem with this theory is that then my guard proof wouldn't be worth shit.

If we have lots of time because it's going to take the Batman a long time to kill the CLs (as per the underlined), then we can afford to spend a day lynching you. Much more effective way of being sure about someone than a convoluted sequence of NAs that could easily go horribly wrong. At the moment, that's my preference.

Vote Spite




EDIT: formatting

This post has been edited by Karosis: 11 June 2012 - 01:05 AM

[D'riss]

Spite.

[D'riss]

3:1 he's town or recruited.

[Karosis]

D, on 11 June 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

3:1 he's town or recruited.

I guess we'll see. I think the deduction is solid - doesn't really make any sense for Batman to set up an elaborate deception like this, IMO. He'll be trying to hit CLs, so spending a night messing around with Spite seems wasteful. Didn't think Spite's defence held much water to be honest.

[D'riss]

We'll see. I could WIFOM my way around why Batman would want to jump into a situation that's been talked about on thread, but eh.

[Galain]

I didn't think it was convincing either, but it seems absurdly rushed to go ahead and lynch him in the weekend freeze, dammit! The case partially rests on deductions made from rules that are apparently in conflict - I would have liked to wait for PS to weigh in on them, Karosis...


But, Spite did start to randomly speculate on the Batman having Guard abilities anyway towards the end of his second post there; something which he'd earlier rubbished and which would make his suggested course of action useless to us, for obvious reasons. So I'm thinking Spite was making a pretty scrambling defense, which gives me confidence he's more likely to be the Batman than just a recruit. And as for CLs not caring about their recruits...hey, they need plurality to win, and there are now only two of them - town is in a much better position than we'd hoped to be, given the odds facing us, and it is clear that Eloth and Amp got taken out over the course of only a couple of days...so if you honestly think that a CL can afford to highlight their recruits so readily when they do not yet have pluarlity, that they would do so for anything less than solid reasons...yeah, scrambling. *sigh*



C'mon Batman CF...

[Galain]

Can we all agree that we don't announce night actions on the thread now, in order to prevent another freaking WIFOM nightmare? XD

[D'riss]

I particularly liked the voting for him before he could name suspects. Thus the 3:1 odds. Once more into the WIFOM.

[Omtose]

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Can we all agree that we don't announce night actions on the thread now, in order to prevent another freaking WIFOM nightmare? XD

Agreed. And you know if we are right, it won't be this easy next time.

[Galain]

D, on 11 June 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

I particularly liked the voting for him before he could name suspects. Thus the 3:1 odds. Once more into the WIFOM.

Yeah, and unlike previous days, it's not like we're going to go WITHOUT a lynch today, ffs...

Omtose, on 11 June 2012 - 01:38 AM, said:

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

Can we all agree that we don't announce night actions on the thread now, in order to prevent another freaking WIFOM nightmare? XD

Agreed. And you know if we are right, it won't be this easy next time.

Indeed, the next Batman is going to be a nightmare to deal with; thus the double-edged sword of the mass revealing, and we've kind of expected several cards' worth of logic-traps on this incarnation. God forbid Spite *isn't* the Batman. :S

[Galain]

Ugh, what the hell is wrong with me today? Expected in the above post *= Expended. O.o

I'm writing like I'm drunk...

[Karosis]

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

I didn't think it was convincing either, but it seems absurdly rushed to go ahead and lynch him in the weekend freeze, dammit! The case partially rests on deductions made from rules that are apparently in conflict - I would have liked to wait for PS to weigh in on them, Karosis...


But, Spite did start to randomly speculate on the Batman having Guard abilities anyway towards the end of his second post there; something which he'd earlier rubbished and which would make his suggested course of action useless to us, for obvious reasons. So I'm thinking Spite was making a pretty scrambling defense, which gives me confidence he's more likely to be the Batman than just a recruit. And as for CLs not caring about their recruits...hey, they need plurality to win, and there are now only two of them - town is in a much better position than we'd hoped to be, given the odds facing us, and it is clear that Eloth and Amp got taken out over the course of only a couple of days...so if you honestly think that a CL can afford to highlight their recruits so readily when they do not yet have pluarlity, that they would do so for anything less than solid reasons...yeah, scrambling. *sigh*



C'mon Batman CF...

Meh, I didn't think your order of operations thing was particularly relevant anyway. Spite's defence was weak enough whether or not that was true, IMO. Didn't see any point in waiting further, might as well make it so there's a chance that the resolution has happened when I wake up tomorrow.

[Galain]

His defence from what? The claim that he must be the Batman because I'm not dead and didn't lose my BP?! The order of resolution is the very CRUX of this case because his defense MAKES SENSE OTHERWISE, you idiot! His subsequent attempts at staying alive are weak and suspicion-inducing but if we're wrong about what *should* have happened in the night resolution everything else falls down around it!


What a fucking selfish move. IGMEOY tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if Spite comes up town.

[Omtose]

Of all the times to not have a PS around.

[D'riss]

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

His defence from what? The claim that he must be the Batman because I'm not dead and didn't lose my BP?! The order of resolution is the very CRUX of this case because his defense MAKES SENSE OTHERWISE, you idiot! His subsequent attempts at staying alive are weak and suspicion-inducing but if we're wrong about what *should* have happened in the night resolution everything else falls down around it!


What a fucking selfish move. IGMEOY tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if Spite comes up town.

And I'm eying you.

This is a pretty strong reaction, thus far.

[Galain]

D, on 11 June 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

His defence from what? The claim that he must be the Batman because I'm not dead and didn't lose my BP?! The order of resolution is the very CRUX of this case because his defense MAKES SENSE OTHERWISE, you idiot! His subsequent attempts at staying alive are weak and suspicion-inducing but if we're wrong about what *should* have happened in the night resolution everything else falls down around it!


What a fucking selfish move. IGMEOY tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if Spite comes up town.

And I'm eying you.

This is a pretty strong reaction, thus far.

Well, I was TRYING to imply that I'd be eying everyone no matter what, but Karosis especially.

And yeah, it's a strong reaction, because I'm a bit tired of people doing ludicrious things for poor reasons. We've just had, as several people pointed out and one player suicided over, a massive thread on why bad town play fucks games. And here we have Karosis, who would rather 'night might be resolved when he wakes up', than do the SENSIBLE thing and CONFIRM the case we're putting forward is logically sound rather than just blindly trusting the claims made by me and others and ignoring the fact that we have clear cases of conflicting information? You'll forgive me if I get a bit worked up over that. I was more than happy to vote Spite, Hammer or not, but as you yourself point out we were pressuring Spite for more information, for his opinions on people, AND waiting for Path-Shaper to get back to us, and Karosis just wanders on and calmly hammers? WHAT THE FUCK?!?!

Should Spite come back town/recruit, people will undoubtedly claim that my "strong reaction" is trying to distance myself from the fallout and make myself look innocent - I'm not. I myself was going to vote Spite HOURS ago without a second thought, and I still think the case is pretty solid. I'm just pissed that some people couldn't WAIT A FEW MORE FUCKING HOURS TO BE SURE, and/or save ourselves from a bad lynch. So yeah, strong reaction here. I thought we were reasonably past this shit in this game up to now, but apparently I was wrong in being a bit opitimistic.

[Karosis]

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

His defence from what? The claim that he must be the Batman because I'm not dead and didn't lose my BP?! The order of resolution is the very CRUX of this case because his defense MAKES SENSE OTHERWISE, you idiot! His subsequent attempts at staying alive are weak and suspicion-inducing but if we're wrong about what *should* have happened in the night resolution everything else falls down around it!


What a fucking selfish move. IGMEOY tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if Spite comes up town.

There is no reason why any player would have gained from targetting Spite for a kill last night. Town + Cults are looking for Batman, so they wouldn't have wanted to disrupt the attack on you, and if they had they would have stepped forward. Batman is looking for CLs, so he wouldn't have bothered attacking a townie. Ergo his defence that someone attacked him last night causing him to lose a BP and subsequently caused an action failure is, IMO, a lie. Which means I think your stuff is irrelevant to the case at hand. I'm sure PS will be happy to enlighten you as to how he would interpret the scenario that is being discussed. If I'm wrong, then so be it.


And it's now 3AM and I have work tomorrow. So further discussion will have to wait until the morning.




EDIT: I had accidentally quoted Galain twice.

This post has been edited by Karosis: 11 June 2012 - 02:11 AM

[D'riss]

I had Atrahal try to smoke me out of the blue. It happens.

[Anomandaris]

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 02:09 AM, said:

D, on 11 June 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

Galain, on 11 June 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

His defence from what? The claim that he must be the Batman because I'm not dead and didn't lose my BP?! The order of resolution is the very CRUX of this case because his defense MAKES SENSE OTHERWISE, you idiot! His subsequent attempts at staying alive are weak and suspicion-inducing but if we're wrong about what *should* have happened in the night resolution everything else falls down around it!


What a fucking selfish move. IGMEOY tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if Spite comes up town.

And I'm eying you.

This is a pretty strong reaction, thus far.

Well, I was TRYING to imply that I'd be eying everyone no matter what, but Karosis especially.

And yeah, it's a strong reaction, because I'm a bit tired of people doing ludicrious things for poor reasons. We've just had, as several people pointed out and one player suicided over, a massive thread on why bad town play fucks games. And here we have Karosis, who would rather 'night might be resolved when he wakes up', than do the SENSIBLE thing and CONFIRM the case we're putting forward is logically sound rather than just blindly trusting the claims made by me and others and ignoring the fact that we have clear cases of conflicting information? You'll forgive me if I get a bit worked up over that. I was more than happy to vote Spite, Hammer or not, but as you yourself point out we were pressuring Spite for more information, for his opinions on people, AND waiting for Path-Shaper to get back to us, and Karosis just wanders on and calmly hammers? WHAT THE FUCK?!?!

Should Spite come back town/recruit, people will undoubtedly claim that my "strong reaction" is trying to distance myself from the fallout and make myself look innocent - I'm not. I myself was going to vote Spite HOURS ago without a second thought, and I still think the case is pretty solid. I'm just pissed that some people couldn't WAIT A FEW MORE FUCKING HOURS TO BE SURE, and/or save ourselves from a bad lynch. So yeah, strong reaction here. I thought we were reasonably past this shit in this game up to now, but apparently I was wrong in being a bit opitimistic.

You're not innocent!


But really, hope he CFs batman, obviously. Just caught up before catching some serious Z's. I should be on in the morning when day starts.