[Korbas]

Difference of opinion.

[Osseric]

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Anomandaris, on 05 June 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Ok, so I finally actually caught up.

Here are my thoughts.

If town needs to have more than any of the cults for a victory at bowel movement's time of death, then taking out one of the leaders wouldn't be a bad idea.

So we have joker pointing at Osseric as bowel movement. I don't see how Joker could have any idea who bowel movement is, so possibly A) Joker really does think that Oss is bowel movement and would like to see him taken down a life. B--) (Sorry for dashes, trying to avoid a smiley appearing instead) The Joker thinks that Oss is one of the other cult leaders and wants to toss some heat on him. C) The joker is actually Oss, and put his own name in there to throw townsfolk off (or just as a joke). And finally D) Oss is just a random-ass name that the joker threw in.

Thoughts anyone? I'm physically exhausted after reading/posting this. Ill check back later.

The reason I bit so fast is flavor. The Joker knew Batman was Bruce Wayne in the game.

Perhaps The Joker needs to "unmask" Batman. He was always seeking to do so in many story lines. I'm guessing the 4 Cult leaders would like to know Batman's identity as soon as possible, thus the basis for what we will see them attempt to do with these broadcasts. And at night they will recruit. I wish I had participated more before my name was mentioned like this, because maybe something I said or a direction I took might reveal something useful. As is, all my posts until I returned a bit ago were all made within the first two hours of the game starting, and we had no real substance what-so-ever. So this makes me think it's some random attempt at some sort of revealing process. We're cattle to them. All I can hope and suggest is that we do not make their game plan easier by ripping into each other like usual while leaving only a few good players left to handle the work load. Quit making a select few people do the job. This does not seem to me to be a game for subtlety, nor a game for layers and layers of mislead unless you are not part of the town. I'd be looking for players with aggression(with perhaps some exception given the nature of the informaton being acted on). The chances are highest that we lynch town, so I can't see how town would willingly remove a player from their faction when it seems to be so heavily needed without solid reason Just one less town is a large blow. So I suggest a higher level of Day 1 caution than normal by a factor 9000. We can agree to this before someone is thrown under the bus so it will not look like it is an attempt to symp that target. Proceed with caution, team. I'm chosing an early stance on this point, good or bad.

[Karosis]

Galain, on 05 June 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Karosis, on 05 June 2012 - 01:46 AM, said:

Omtose, on 05 June 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Karosis, on 05 June 2012 - 12:55 AM, said:

Omtose, on 04 June 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

Oh and to play along...

Osseric is Batman.

Yeah baby yeah!

This post felt forced to me. Korbas was very clearly barking up the wrong tree with his demands for Atrahal to post an exact phrase given the explicit lack of limits on revealing. He does say previously that he'd enjoyed this section of discussion, but the way Omtose does this makes it feel like he was going for a "Better join in so everyone thinks I'm town!" sort of thing in an attempt to blend in.


His previous foray into prodding was pretty forced as well (so much so that Ampelas immediately called him on it, actually):

Omtose, on 04 June 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Rashan, on 04 June 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Korbas, on 04 June 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

I was under the impression that batman was a killer, with a lot of defenses. If the OP makes more than that clear, I didn't notice, and can't check atm. Batman is defensive, it seems. As for the recruiters, I figure they're just like the rest of us. 4 recruiters is a LOT, and ment said its possible for town to win. Even if we get them 4 consecutive days, that's still 6 recruits AND batman left. That's my reasoning

I suppose you could be right, but I wouldn't put my money on Batman being only defensive. It seems to me that he will have some interesting attacks or something for if/when he figures out who a recruiter is. *shrugs* I imagine he'll have a NK action too. Guess we shall see.

Downplaying Batman's role? The rules clearly state that he is a PREDATOR with abilities to TAKE DOWN the recruiters. This is not a defensive role.

In both of posts he quotes, Rashan and Korbas explicitly mention that the Batman has offensive abilities (to wit - NKs). So this attack doesn't really make any sense in context - I don't see any downplaying going on here. Though I'll admit he managed to generate quite a bit of (albeit not particularly useful) discussion for a statement that was so unfounded.

In summary, some of Omtose's posts make it feel like he's trying too hard to blend into the crowd.

Vote Omtose

Really? This is a case? How do I defend from a feeling that I am "forced"? While I am not one of the ones that have all day to spam the thread, I do try and interact. I haven't made a decision yet on Day 1. I'd prefer to watch the interactions run a bit longer before I do. In the meantime I have made a comment here and there.

Whether or not it's something you can defend yourself against does not diminish or amplify the case itself. Your questions are irrelevant - why should all cases be made in such a way that the accused can defend themselves against them? Let everyone else chime in with whether or not they think this is something worth looking at if you don't think you can do it yourself.

I thoroughly disagree with this. His argument is that the CASE is insubstantial and intangible, therefore it's a ridiculous case, THEREFORE he cannot defend against it. Not that it is a case he cannot defend against, THEREFORE it is a bad case. We're meant to be going for more reason and logic this time, aren't we? Can we make the effort to do so?
Basically: where's the evidence of what is being claimed? Where is the quote, which has the reason it creates this feeling explained to us as best it can be?


-Galain, holding cases to a higher standard since 2012.

The underlined is asking for what I have already provided, is it not? What you are asking here doesn't make any sense to me.

And what precisely is it that you disagree with so thoroughly? My sentiments themselves in the general case, or how they apply to this specific situation? The point of a case is NOT to provide an accusation for someone to respond to, but to draw the attention of the thread-following denizens of the game to a constructed argument. And thus complaining that there is no way to respond to the argument is pointless and bears no relevance to the discussion. If he feels that the case is 'insubstantial and intangible', then that is what he should say.

I have made no claims about the strength of the argument - I leave that for everyone else to decide for themselves and comment on. Exercise those critical reading neurons they tried to make your brain grow during English class!

[Omtose]

OK I'm not really feeling a Fener lynch, even though on a base instinctive level it just seems right.

remove Vote

For now I'm going to do a reread and look at the posts from Joker, Two-Face, Poison Ivy and Penguin. I think we need to watch for their writing style to creep up.

[Meanas]

oh, and rotfl about me slipping up. I say BCS because I expect to be on some cult team at some point (and if not, I will definitely lose in the anonymity of an unwanted thug... )

[Osseric]

D, on 05 June 2012 - 01:56 AM, said:

Osseric, on 05 June 2012 - 01:50 AM, said:

Korvalain, on 05 June 2012 - 12:38 AM, said:

I have returned from sleep, and hopefully making more sense

I'm finding these statements from the criminal masterminds very interesting. Hopefully they will give us some clues about the masterminds and their suspects. [i]Interesting this fascination they have for Osseric too.[i]

I'm a bit torn over looking for Batman over the criminal masterminds. The cults, I think, are a more immediate threat to town, but the Batman issue is going to have to be addressed fairly early on as well.

Also, I am a wee bit confused as to why D'riss is feeling the need to quote largely irrelevant comments made by other people, with largely irrelevant comments of his own added to them.

I'm glad I am not alone in this.

Which part?

The failed underline attempt part.

[Korbas]

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I would point to the fact that lynching me does little for anyone. If I am a cult leader, I have to be the stupidest one in the game. Personally, it's fun baiting hot heads and dragging out dragonsecks, esp on day one. But if you want serious, here is some more (glasses pushed back up the nose, pipe adjusted, hearth still burning, check).

Cult has plurality in three days (WCS or BCS, pick your poison). So I ask, what the fuck can town do about it? Do we have a mayor who can convince the convicts to return to their normal thug status minus the Criminal Mastermind leader? once recurited, town is dead and the cultist arises.

My perspective, as a townie along for the ride, is embrace it. you will most likely be cult, or lose cruelly as one of the few townie specimens. thus, I'm not laying down an attack plan for any cult leader whatsoever until I actually have a team of sorts (not that an aptly placed recruitment wouldn't switch my allegences). This is a fluid game peeps!!! a game of chance and whim. BM is the only constant, and therefor must die. if you think you can find BM 4 times before cult has plurality, you are crazier than I seem to sound (that works right?)

argue that motherfuckers

Quote

Players must not:

B1) Act in any way intended to reduce the chance of their faction achieving its win conditions. (However, should all surviving members of a faction agree that they wish to resign and end the game early, they may do so by PMing the mods privately, without stating their intentions on-thread until the mods post to announce that the game is over.)

Argued.

If you're town, you should be modkilled.


Remove Vote

Vote Meanas


That mentality really makes me sad inside.

[Meanas]

Korbas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:16 AM, said:

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I would point to the fact that lynching me does little for anyone. If I am a cult leader, I have to be the stupidest one in the game. Personally, it's fun baiting hot heads and dragging out dragonsecks, esp on day one. But if you want serious, here is some more (glasses pushed back up the nose, pipe adjusted, hearth still burning, check).

Cult has plurality in three days (WCS or BCS, pick your poison). So I ask, what the fuck can town do about it? Do we have a mayor who can convince the convicts to return to their normal thug status minus the Criminal Mastermind leader? once recurited, town is dead and the cultist arises.

My perspective, as a townie along for the ride, is embrace it. you will most likely be cult, or lose cruelly as one of the few townie specimens. thus, I'm not laying down an attack plan for any cult leader whatsoever until I actually have a team of sorts (not that an aptly placed recruitment wouldn't switch my allegences). This is a fluid game peeps!!! a game of chance and whim. BM is the only constant, and therefor must die. if you think you can find BM 4 times before cult has plurality, you are crazier than I seem to sound (that works right?)

argue that motherfuckers

Quote

Players must not:

B1) Act in any way intended to reduce the chance of their faction achieving its win conditions. (However, should all surviving members of a faction agree that they wish to resign and end the game early, they may do so by PMing the mods privately, without stating their intentions on-thread until the mods post to announce that the game is over.)

Argued.

If you're town, you should be modkilled.


Remove Vote

Vote Meanas


That mentality really makes me sad inside.

Ah, self-righteousness from someone playing meta a little earlier iirc. I love the sweet smell of hypocracy burning on the frying pan in the morning.

[Korbas]

No meta. I wasn't part of the timing thing. Doesn't sit right.

[Meanas]

If ment feels I'm breaking the rules, he may mod kill me. if I misunderstood the intent of the game, my apologies go to him alone, not you my crispy friend.

[Karosis]

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I would point to the fact that lynching me does little for anyone. If I am a cult leader, I have to be the stupidest one in the game. Personally, it's fun baiting hot heads and dragging out dragonsecks, esp on day one. But if you want serious, here is some more (glasses pushed back up the nose, pipe adjusted, hearth still burning, check).

Cult has plurality in three days (WCS or BCS, pick your poison). So I ask, what the fuck can town do about it? Do we have a mayor who can convince the convicts to return to their normal thug status minus the Criminal Mastermind leader? once recurited, town is dead and the cultist arises.

My perspective, as a townie along for the ride, is embrace it. you will most likely be cult, or lose cruelly as one of the few townie specimens. thus, I'm not laying down an attack plan for any cult leader whatsoever until I actually have a team of sorts (not that an aptly placed recruitment wouldn't switch my allegences). This is a fluid game peeps!!! a game of chance and whim. BM is the only constant, and therefor must die. if you think you can find BM 4 times before cult has plurality, you are crazier than I seem to sound (that works right?)

argue that motherfuckers

No. You play for the team your Role PM says you are on, not the team you expect to be on on Night 4. That is a cast iron rule about how this game is played, there is no arguing on this point.

In any case, your analysis of how the game will turn out is terrible. You have neglected to account for cross-recruiting, which will make a difference to how long we have. You have neglected to account for the possibility that the cult leaders can actually be killed, which would significantly reduce the rate that town are turned. And you have neglected to account for information transfer on recruitment attempts, which will make recruiters known to the thread and significantly reduce their ability to operate.

EDIT: X-Post with Korbas, who says something very similar.

This post has been edited by Karosis: 05 June 2012 - 02:25 AM

[D'riss]

Huh.

It is not like "playing to be recruited" has not been done in the past.

But, I don't like the attitude. At all. In fact, it is against my interests.

As of now, you are where my vote is going, but I do wonder about bored town syndrome.

[Omtose]

Sheltatha Lore, on 04 June 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Spite, on 04 June 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

I'll veer for you

Blatantly asking to be recruited!

Vote Spite

Sheltatha Lore, on 04 June 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

Eloth, on 04 June 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 04 June 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

you expected more spam? in the first hour?

it's been a while since we had some decent dragonsecks. who's keen?

Yes I did. I'm one demanding reality show watcher/participant!
Wait, those terms are mutually exclusive.... OK, I just like to moan. Especially during dragonsecks. But that's for the night only, when I've gotten to know you something better. I am cheap, but not for free nor for the average common videogamer - first prove that you have some conversational skills and at the very least, a decent pick up line.

Oh no! Eloth is doing the same thing!

Remove Vote

Vote Eloth

Sheltatha Lore, on 04 June 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

If I'm flip-floppin' during the dragonseks, you're doing something wrong!

Remove Vote

Vote Karosis

for trying to be like me.

Sheltatha Lore, on 04 June 2012 - 01:07 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 04 June 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

vote Sheltatha

his flip-flopping on votes has to be signalling!

Who in this game needs signaling? Who needs to signal?

Obviously Korvalain has information I do not.

Remove Vote

Vote Korvalain

Sheltatha Lore, on 04 June 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

Karosis is asking for a bailout?

Too big to fail? Sounds like a playboy millionaire to me!

Remove Vote

Vote Karosis

(again)

Sheltatha Lore, on 04 June 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Omtose, on 04 June 2012 - 01:19 PM, said:

vote Fener

Obviously he's trying to play it cool and not make any waves off the bat by not posting yet.

Remove Vote

Vote Omtose

This is insane. Literally no content from Sheltatha.

[Galain]

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I would point to the fact that lynching me does little for anyone. If I am a cult leader, I have to be the stupidest one in the game. Personally, it's fun baiting hot heads and dragging out dragonsecks, esp on day one. But if you want serious, here is some more (glasses pushed back up the nose, pipe adjusted, hearth still burning, check).

Cult has plurality in three days (WCS or BCS, pick your poison). So I ask, what the fuck can town do about it? Do we have a mayor who can convince the convicts to return to their normal thug status minus the Criminal Mastermind leader? once recurited, town is dead and the cultist arises.

My perspective, as a townie along for the ride, is embrace it. you will most likely be cult, or lose cruelly as one of the few townie specimens. thus, I'm not laying down an attack plan for any cult leader whatsoever until I actually have a team of sorts (not that an aptly placed recruitment wouldn't switch my allegences). This is a fluid game peeps!!! a game of chance and whim. BM is the only constant, and therefor must die. if you think you can find BM 4 times before cult has plurality, you are crazier than I seem to sound (that works right?)

argue that motherfuckers

Modkill. Actively playing against his own team if he's town.


Also, cult doesn't achieve plurarlity on day 3.



The four cults will be at best balanced - because they do NOT WIN AS ONE FACTION. So while town will (theoretically, no cult deaths) be drastically reduced, no cult will have won by day 3 if Batman dies.

[D'riss]

That part about signalling is somewhat game related. There is, if I've read it correctly, no reason to really signal right now for anyone.

[D'riss]

Let me clarify my earlier statement, I've never seen it done on thread. In pms, sure. It's common town-pool strategy. But, this is a winnable game for town, so that reasoning is kind of out of the window.

[Galain]

Karosis, on 05 June 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

The underlined is asking for what I have already provided, is it not? What you are asking here doesn't make any sense to me.

And what precisely is it that you disagree with so thoroughly? My sentiments themselves in the general case, or how they apply to this specific situation? The point of a case is NOT to provide an accusation for someone to respond to, but to draw the attention of the thread-following denizens of the game to a constructed argument. And thus complaining that there is no way to respond to the argument is pointless and bears no relevance to the discussion. If he feels that the case is 'insubstantial and intangible', then that is what he should say.

I have made no claims about the strength of the argument - I leave that for everyone else to decide for themselves and comment on. Exercise those critical reading neurons they tried to make your brain grow during English class!

Yes, see my post immediately after this one where I apologize for not having read the whole quote properly. Rather embarrassing, really...



I disagree with your sentiments that a case based only on 'feelings' is worth being put forward, basically. But as you say, that is not the case with the one you presented, I was merely arguing for the general circumstance based on the part of the conversation I did read, which read as you defending intangibles as a valid source of cases.

Specifics aside, however, I'm just saying that we do need to be presenting higher standard cases - especially if you consider that on the whole, the concern is that the case causes a lynch REGARDLESS of it being stupid, intangible, and ultimately meaningless (though your case wasn't, as it was backed by quotes and explanations, again, my bad) because the rest of town doesn't do what you suggest and read critically. Therefore by presenting such a case you would (have) been perpetuating that kind of behaviour and sheparding town (or attempting to, anyway) and I would suggest that s we don't want crappy play like that to continue we should simply not put forward intangible, stupid cases.



BUT all of that is really beside the point, seeing as your case did actually analyse and expand, which I missed until I suddenly thought I should actually read the quoted text. Then I apologized.

[Korbas]

Galain, on 05 June 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

The four cults will be at best balanced - because they do NOT WIN AS ONE FACTION. So while town will (theoretically, no cult deaths) be drastically reduced, no cult will have won by day 3 if Batman dies.

Wow. I completely overlooked this. I was thinking of the cult as a single faction.

[Path-Shaper]

All players should play for their current faction at all times. That means town should play for town.

vote count coming up

-ment

[Omtose]

Path-Shaper, on 05 June 2012 - 12:19 AM, said:

You all stand around staring daggers at each other. or at least wishing you had daggers. or at least shanks.

then the Radio picks up the Bowery PA system again, and you hear Penguin's cockney voice again:

Quote

Touring the riot scene. Gravely assessing the devastation. Upstanding mayor stuff. FFS HAS NO ONE CONSIDERED THAT OSSERIC IS THE JOKER?"

Meanas, on 05 June 2012 - 02:13 AM, said:

I would point to the fact that lynching me does little for anyone. If I am a cult leader, I have to be the stupidest one in the game. Personally, it's fun baiting hot heads and dragging out dragonsecks, esp on day one. But if you want serious, here is some more (glasses pushed back up the nose, pipe adjusted, hearth still burning, check).

Cult has plurality in three days (WCS or BCS, pick your poison). So I ask, what the fuck can town do about it? Do we have a mayor who can convince the convicts to return to their normal thug status minus the Criminal Mastermind leader? once recurited, town is dead and the cultist arises.

My perspective, as a townie along for the ride, is embrace it. you will most likely be cult, or lose cruelly as one of the few townie specimens. thus, I'm not laying down an attack plan for any cult leader whatsoever until I actually have a team of sorts (not that an aptly placed recruitment wouldn't switch my allegences). This is a fluid game peeps!!! a game of chance and whim. BM is the only constant, and therefor must die. if you think you can find BM 4 times before cult has plurality, you are crazier than I seem to sound (that works right?)

argue that motherfuckers

Interesting choice of words. Your play has been dodgy and I searched the thread you and the Penguin are the only ones that used the word 'mayor'.

vote Meanas