Malazan Empire: Video explaning why Euthanasia might not be such a bad idea - Malazan Empire

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Video explaning why Euthanasia might not be such a bad idea

#21 User is offline   Shiara 

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:17 AM

View PostTapper, on 04 June 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm sorry Shiara, but no, it isn't, not even in the shortest description of it. If that's how even intelligent people like you see it, there's a massive PR-problem surrounding the issue. I am very much biased in my defense of euthanasia (see below) and I know it is still very much under discussion in bio-ethics and philosophy, but I am kind of shocked that this is how people see it.

Euthanasia (from the greek combination of eu = good, and thanatos = death) is the ending of someone's life on their own request because they have lost the will to live and can personally confirm this (in cases of a coma, this may be grey territory, in which case, loved ones can request it but proof will be needed that this wasn't against the person's own beliefs - it isn;t merely a question of convenience, and euthanasia isn't applied, people are taken off life support instead), are in a hopeless medical situation (as confirmed by a medical specialist - aka, in the last stages of a terminal affliction that has been treated with all therapies available to medical science) and they are in unbearable pain without options to relieve that.
In other words: there are conditions attached to it that make euthanasia a dignified way out of life to spare someone further suffering, at best for a few days. Furthermore, the patient doesn't execute the euthanasia: a doctor does.

Here in the Netherlands, where euthanasia is (thankfully) legal, doctors can refuse to perform it - it is after all an exception to the Hippocratic oath, and you can't expect anyone to end someone elses life. It isn't also something that is casually handled: it's not something that can be done on the spur of the moment. Furthermore, the entire team of doctors and nurses that is present or worked with the patient in his final day is given time off and psychological aid and care should they wish to have it. So no, it is in no ways assisted suicide.

I've seen euthanasia being performed on my father, it might have saved him anywhere between 6-24 hours of suffering, no more - but it also saved him from a very undignified and painful death and allowed him to go quietly, dignified and in the presence of all his loved ones. The combination of those three factors, personally for me, was a massive, massive step in getting over his death. My mother had already agreed to a date and signed the relevant documents when she died herself, so in her case, it wasn't needed. As I said, it isn't suicide - it is merely artificially bringing about the inevitable during someone's final hours.

If it was anything other than that, it would be stepping into the territory of murder. Hell, there's plenty of people (likely also on this board) who already consider it murder, anyway.


I'm sorry if my flippant remark offended or upset you, that was in no way my intent. I honestly thought they were the same, as I've heard them used interchangeably with no stigma on either side.
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#22 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:29 AM

View PostShiara, on 04 June 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

View PostTapper, on 04 June 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm sorry Shiara, but no, it isn't, not even in the shortest description of it. If that's how even intelligent people like you see it, there's a massive PR-problem surrounding the issue. I am very much biased in my defense of euthanasia (see below) and I know it is still very much under discussion in bio-ethics and philosophy, but I am kind of shocked that this is how people see it.

Euthanasia (from the greek combination of eu = good, and thanatos = death) is the ending of someone's life on their own request because they have lost the will to live and can personally confirm this (in cases of a coma, this may be grey territory, in which case, loved ones can request it but proof will be needed that this wasn't against the person's own beliefs - it isn;t merely a question of convenience, and euthanasia isn't applied, people are taken off life support instead), are in a hopeless medical situation (as confirmed by a medical specialist - aka, in the last stages of a terminal affliction that has been treated with all therapies available to medical science) and they are in unbearable pain without options to relieve that.
In other words: there are conditions attached to it that make euthanasia a dignified way out of life to spare someone further suffering, at best for a few days. Furthermore, the patient doesn't execute the euthanasia: a doctor does.

Here in the Netherlands, where euthanasia is (thankfully) legal, doctors can refuse to perform it - it is after all an exception to the Hippocratic oath, and you can't expect anyone to end someone elses life. It isn't also something that is casually handled: it's not something that can be done on the spur of the moment. Furthermore, the entire team of doctors and nurses that is present or worked with the patient in his final day is given time off and psychological aid and care should they wish to have it. So no, it is in no ways assisted suicide.

I've seen euthanasia being performed on my father, it might have saved him anywhere between 6-24 hours of suffering, no more - but it also saved him from a very undignified and painful death and allowed him to go quietly, dignified and in the presence of all his loved ones. The combination of those three factors, personally for me, was a massive, massive step in getting over his death. My mother had already agreed to a date and signed the relevant documents when she died herself, so in her case, it wasn't needed. As I said, it isn't suicide - it is merely artificially bringing about the inevitable during someone's final hours.

If it was anything other than that, it would be stepping into the territory of murder. Hell, there's plenty of people (likely also on this board) who already consider it murder, anyway.


I'm sorry if my flippant remark offended or upset you, that was in no way my intent. I honestly thought they were the same, as I've heard them used interchangeably with no stigma on either side.

Not offended at all, merely slightly shocked that so little is known of what it is meant to be :tongue:
That might also be because we have euthanasia codified by law and therefore make the distinction between assisted suicide and euthanasia. For example, any kind of suicide is treated as a potential crime scene here, with police investigation, whereas euthanasia is seen as a medical procedure and is therefore relegated to the board of medical ethics (who will actually press legal charges of murder if a medical expert is judged to be in the wrong and applying euthanasia when there's no cause for it, or no clear indication that this was the execution of the deceased's own will). so for me, it is not so much euthanasia that has a stigma, but assisted suicide that does (it implies amateurism and no medical support for said suicide, making it very grey territory and open to abuse or a forced decision by the relatives).
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#23 User is offline   Centzon Totochtin 

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 09:38 AM

I think the difference here is that it is not legal in Australia and those who are against it portray it as simply assisted suicide to make it sound less appealing to those who are undecided.

On a lighter more Phoenix Inn type note: these girls should be sterilised then released in a girl scout troupe to allow the girls their own revenge :tongue:

Edit: fixing stupid typos

This post has been edited by Centzon Totochtin: 04 June 2012 - 10:02 AM

That Elephant is looking rather frayed at the edges
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#24 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 04 June 2012 - 10:05 AM

I think I saw a movie like that once on the, uh, seedier side of the internet.
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#25 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 12:39 PM

This may shock some who know about my faith etc but I actually think in certain circumstances (namely the ones put forward by Tapper earlier) Euthanasia can be justified.
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#26 User is offline   Sparrohawk 

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Posted 05 June 2012 - 11:19 PM

Quote

That might also be because we have euthanasia codified by law and therefore make the distinction between assisted suicide and euthanasia. For example, any kind of suicide is treated as a potential crime scene here, with police investigation, whereas euthanasia is seen as a medical procedure and is therefore relegated to the board of medical ethics (who will actually press legal charges of murder if a medical expert is judged to be in the wrong and applying euthanasia when there's no cause for it, or no clear indication that this was the execution of the deceased's own will). so for me, it is not so much euthanasia that has a stigma, but assisted suicide that does (it implies amateurism and no medical support for said suicide, making it very grey territory and open to abuse or a forced decision by the relatives).


This is something that I'm really curious about. In the Netherlands, is the legalisation of euthanasia a contentious issue? Or is it something that is 'part of the landscape'? I'm trying to imagine euthanasia being legalised in Australia in a similar fashion and I just can't see it happening. We'd have crowds of people arguing against it on the basis of morality.

Quote

This may shock some who know about my faith etc but I actually think in certain circumstances (namely the ones put forward by Tapper earlier) Euthanasia can be justified.


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