[Galain]

By the way, the reason i got so defensive early on when Shelly attacked me was because of the unreasonable and spammy attacks he made towards me, constantly blaming me of being pretty much everything.

[Telas]

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

[Thyrllan]

im in bed, and thus made myself a liar as I don't think I will drop a vote now, However I'll be getting up early before work to catch up and vote tomorrow.
Liking the cases brought forth by rashan upon reading, my thoughts on fenere were that shelly really just annoyed him so he killed him (if he's a killer) which is pretty weak, and the long range planning is weak as well, but a bit better. The ampelas option seems more substantial of the two.

[Galain]

Thyrllan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

im in bed, and thus made myself a liar as I don't think I will drop a vote now, However I'll be getting up early before work to catch up and vote tomorrow.
Liking the cases brought forth by rashan upon reading, my thoughts on fenere were that shelly really just annoyed him so he killed him (if he's a killer) which is pretty weak, and the long range planning is weak as well, but a bit better. The ampelas option seems more substantial of the two.

Well, if Fener WAS a killer it would make sense, i guess.

The killers can just pick us off one by one, and Shelly being annoying is as good a reason as any. They don't have to focus healers or guards first, because we're all just RI's, and the two killers know eachother.

[Thyrllan]

cross posting.
galain, my problem is that his spammy rp was spammy day one rp and not worth responding to. But if I recall correctly you may have been the first to advocate ignoring him entirely.




anyway im for sleepy time

[Galain]

Thyrllan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

cross posting.
galain, my problem is that his spammy rp was spammy day one rp and not worth responding to. But if I recall correctly you may have been the first to advocate ignoring him entirely.




anyway im for sleepy time

I think Fener was the first to propose it, i can't remember.

And, as ashamed as i may be to admit this, i thought he was an actual noob at first, until he started going completely insane.

[Rashan]

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

Amp didn't start it I believe he just jumped on the ride. I think Kheltatha would have proven to be one of the bigger threats to the scum team. Most people drop role playing after day 1 and he was clearly a high poster that could run the thread. I think the nail in his coffin was when he started looking Amp's way. It wasn't worth letting him live another day where he might build a case against him.

I'm not surprised that any of you are looking at me since I was a vocal proponent of a Kheltatha lynch. I went out on a limb based on the theory that scum could be hiding behind high posting for a change and was wrong.

Galain I'm not sure of. He's a high poster, but I haven't really seen much in his content. I'll reread him and Korbas to see if I get the same feel that you do for them.

[Rashan]

Now I really need to go to work.

[Telas]

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

Amp didn't start it I believe he just jumped on the ride. I think Kheltatha would have proven to be one of the bigger threats to the scum team. Most people drop role playing after day 1 and he was clearly a high poster that could run the thread. I think the nail in his coffin was when he started looking Amp's way. It wasn't worth letting him live another day where he might build a case against him.

I'm not surprised that any of you are looking at me since I was a vocal proponent of a Kheltatha lynch. I went out on a limb based on the theory that scum could be hiding behind high posting for a change and was wrong.

Galain I'm not sure of. He's a high poster, but I haven't really seen much in his content. I'll reread him and Korbas to see if I get the same feel that you do for them.

Was reading through some old posts, and I noticed something else interesting - you put your vote down for Shelly right after I suggested that Shelly might be using her Krazy with a capital K to hide the fact that she's a killer, and then you just did the same thing to Ampelas right after I suggested that we should look closer at him. I think you're trying to make it seem like I'm directing your votes, and I don't like that. I'm going to keep an eye on you.

[Rashan]

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

Amp didn't start it I believe he just jumped on the ride. I think Kheltatha would have proven to be one of the bigger threats to the scum team. Most people drop role playing after day 1 and he was clearly a high poster that could run the thread. I think the nail in his coffin was when he started looking Amp's way. It wasn't worth letting him live another day where he might build a case against him.

I'm not surprised that any of you are looking at me since I was a vocal proponent of a Kheltatha lynch. I went out on a limb based on the theory that scum could be hiding behind high posting for a change and was wrong.

Galain I'm not sure of. He's a high poster, but I haven't really seen much in his content. I'll reread him and Korbas to see if I get the same feel that you do for them.

Was reading through some old posts, and I noticed something else interesting - you put your vote down for Shelly right after I suggested that Shelly might be using her Krazy with a capital K to hide the fact that she's a killer, and then you just did the same thing to Ampelas right after I suggested that we should look closer at him. I think you're trying to make it seem like I'm directing your votes, and I don't like that. I'm going to keep an eye on you.

Nope. Nice try. I posted the following BEFORE you'd ever even said anything. I was looking at Kheltatha earlier.

Rashan, on 22 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

OK, so here are my thoughts overall. I don't think we need to quote Shelly, but he's running around like a ferret hopped up on espresso and meth. Nervous much?

We all are fairly certain that we've alted him. While there were several pages of his rambling in the last game, I think he made considerably more sense in that one. So I'm wondering if this guy got a killer role and is desperately trying to be a high poster so as to avoid being considered middle of the road or contentless.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. There are 27 hours and 7 minutes remaining.

There are 10 players left: Ampelas, Anomandaris, D'riss, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Rashan, Telas, Thyrllan

6 votes required for a lynch, 5 to go to night.

1 vote Korbas (Anomandaris)
1 vote Rashan (D'riss)
1 vote Ampelas (Rashan)

Players who have not voted: Ampelas, Fener, Galain, Karosis, Korbas, Telas, Thyrllan

[Rashan]

Nobody has been here but me all day. I suspect you'll all return when I go to bed tonight.

[Telas]

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

Amp didn't start it I believe he just jumped on the ride. I think Kheltatha would have proven to be one of the bigger threats to the scum team. Most people drop role playing after day 1 and he was clearly a high poster that could run the thread. I think the nail in his coffin was when he started looking Amp's way. It wasn't worth letting him live another day where he might build a case against him.

I'm not surprised that any of you are looking at me since I was a vocal proponent of a Kheltatha lynch. I went out on a limb based on the theory that scum could be hiding behind high posting for a change and was wrong.

Galain I'm not sure of. He's a high poster, but I haven't really seen much in his content. I'll reread him and Korbas to see if I get the same feel that you do for them.

Was reading through some old posts, and I noticed something else interesting - you put your vote down for Shelly right after I suggested that Shelly might be using her Krazy with a capital K to hide the fact that she's a killer, and then you just did the same thing to Ampelas right after I suggested that we should look closer at him. I think you're trying to make it seem like I'm directing your votes, and I don't like that. I'm going to keep an eye on you.

Nope. Nice try. I posted the following BEFORE you'd ever even said anything. I was looking at Kheltatha earlier.

Rashan, on 22 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

OK, so here are my thoughts overall. I don't think we need to quote Shelly, but he's running around like a ferret hopped up on espresso and meth. Nervous much?

We all are fairly certain that we've alted him. While there were several pages of his rambling in the last game, I think he made considerably more sense in that one. So I'm wondering if this guy got a killer role and is desperately trying to be a high poster so as to avoid being considered middle of the road or contentless.

Sure you said that, but you didn't actually put your vote down until I said I'd jump on a Shelly lynch train!

[Rashan]

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

Amp didn't start it I believe he just jumped on the ride. I think Kheltatha would have proven to be one of the bigger threats to the scum team. Most people drop role playing after day 1 and he was clearly a high poster that could run the thread. I think the nail in his coffin was when he started looking Amp's way. It wasn't worth letting him live another day where he might build a case against him.

I'm not surprised that any of you are looking at me since I was a vocal proponent of a Kheltatha lynch. I went out on a limb based on the theory that scum could be hiding behind high posting for a change and was wrong.

Galain I'm not sure of. He's a high poster, but I haven't really seen much in his content. I'll reread him and Korbas to see if I get the same feel that you do for them.

Was reading through some old posts, and I noticed something else interesting - you put your vote down for Shelly right after I suggested that Shelly might be using her Krazy with a capital K to hide the fact that she's a killer, and then you just did the same thing to Ampelas right after I suggested that we should look closer at him. I think you're trying to make it seem like I'm directing your votes, and I don't like that. I'm going to keep an eye on you.

Nope. Nice try. I posted the following BEFORE you'd ever even said anything. I was looking at Kheltatha earlier.

Rashan, on 22 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

OK, so here are my thoughts overall. I don't think we need to quote Shelly, but he's running around like a ferret hopped up on espresso and meth. Nervous much?

We all are fairly certain that we've alted him. While there were several pages of his rambling in the last game, I think he made considerably more sense in that one. So I'm wondering if this guy got a killer role and is desperately trying to be a high poster so as to avoid being considered middle of the road or contentless.

Sure you said that, but you didn't actually put your vote down until I said I'd jump on a Shelly lynch train!

I know you'd love to claim this one, but I just wanted to watch first instead of throw my vote out there right away. My opinions on thread were very obvious. Regardless, we were both wrong.

As far as day 2 goes, on my first read Amp looked like a best possibility. Been busier than usual with work so haven't been able to reread a few others, but I'll get to do that when I get home tonight.

[Korbas]

I've been busy today so I haven't gotten much done in the way of a re-read. Fener still sticks out as disliking both people who are now dead. I didn't notice much on Amp initially, but later when I have a few spare minutes I'm going to reread his posts as well.

[Anomandaris]

More ammo for my case against Korbas...

Korbas, on 23 May 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Tulas Shorn, on 22 May 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

I am only on for a minute. But I agree with Shelly we should be looking for codes. Actually Shelly seems to making perfect sense. If only I wasn't pressed for time. Thy is starting to look a little suspect.


Vote Thyrllan


Edited for spelling

This is the post that made me go with TS, mostly because it was his one and only post for a long time. His tantrum didn't convince me, maybe if he's structured an argument instead of bitching and whining then he would still be in.

The fact that Shelly got killed during night leads me to believe that maybe one (or both) killers were, from the beginning, on the shelly lynch train that never left station.

The two i remember are telas and karosis who started off as SL votes. I think there were more. I'm gonna spend some time reading back and see who else started off shelly

So the second paragraph is what gets me. Why would a pair of killers already on the lynch train for SL also have SL on their kill list? I doubt Shelly was that much of a threat to have a back up kill plan (and I actually think they made a mistake in killing Shelly, still not sure why...).

For those saying SL might have been onto something, I actually highly doubt it. SL pointed out multiple different targets, bouncing from one vote to the next, basically stirring up the pot. It's a worthy strategy (and risky which is why I discounted SL as a scum candidate; I've never seen a scum that balsy) and we do have a lot of good posts to run through thanks to Khells. Such a strategy, though, doesn't lend itself to trusting any of Shelly's "instincts."

So for the above quote, I think Korbas is being careless and as scum, using the collateral from the SL kill to take us down the "what would Shelly do" path.

Korbas, on 23 May 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Galain started off the SL votes on page 1

Fener, on 22 May 2012 - 01:55 AM, said:

Galain, on 22 May 2012 - 01:39 AM, said:

Is...Is there anyone else who agrees'we'd be better of ignoring Shelly?

Yep, all over that idea like a fat kid on a smartie.

Here Fener shows desire to have shelly knocked off for the first time, not the last though.

Basically the people who's posts I'm going to examine more closely as of now are

Galain
Fener
Telas
Karosis



And...Annomandaris because he's hurt my feelings


Edit - removed some line of code that showed up in the middle

And so we return to Bliss' axom: scum love lists. The kernel of truth in the bull shit is how Korbas here gives us a list of nice juicy suspects, but really provides no reasoning other than they voted Shelly (or hurt his feelings...).

[D'riss]

D'riss has returned to much fanfare! (/roleplay)


Rashan has become very proactive and helpful. It's too bad there isn't any way to know if this is due to me plopping a vote on him, or he would have done this on Day 2 anyways. My suspicion is the former - it's out of character compared to his Day 1 play since he didn't really do anything on his own on Day 1 (good when you want to avoid the random day 1 lynch over some small perceived error). Now all of a sudden he feels pressure to contribute or face people looking at him.

As for things being said about others

Fener - I think he needs to post more. I don't get much from him except "indignancy" about this and that.

Amp - The case is ok, but a bit of a stretch. As Telas points out, it can be interpreted either way.

Galain - Other than the "setting up lynches" thing at the end of Day 1, (which happen to be the 2 dead people - spooky) I'm not seeing much. Although the pre-emptive explanation at the top of this page made a slight wave on my scumdar. Answering accusations before they happen is a little suspicious.

[Anomandaris]

Ampelas, on 23 May 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 23 May 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

It is very interesting that SL was knocked off by the killers. Shelly was setting herself up for a lynch, and seeing that she was inno (and the killers know she's inno with no chance of being on their team) I don't understand why they wasted a night kill on her.

MOs include:
-Shelly was onto something and/or someone
-Shelly was way off base, and thus the WIFOM over her speculations would hinder town
-killing Shelly would point us to someone who voiced annonyance with her
-killing Shelly was a reaction to her irritating behavior
-it was meta-kill meant to pick off Khells, not Shelly
-it was a random kill from a provisional list made before any real content was seated in thread

Personally, I'm leaning toward an MO having to do with how annoying Shelly was. Being cagey and being mafia, I am going to actually start looking into people who were not annoyed at Shelly, thinking that the killers would distance themselves from their kill. I believe this is counterintuitive, hence the long winded analysis.

I want to say it's because they found Shelly annoying. I can't count the number of times I've wished I was scum so that I could kill off that annoying player

I'm not exactly sure where you are going with this list. Shelly was really only interested in lynching TS, who then got lynched. There were many people voicing annoyance with her behaviour. In fact, I think I was the only person who found it rather amusing Any other possibility you listed really doesn't tell us much about who had it in for Shelly. Personally I think you are more likely right with your first statement; Shelly was killed off because she was decidedly innocent.

I also am not really sure what you mean by the final bit of your post. if it is counterintuitive why are you doing it?

So, I was really just checking in to see the night result before heading to bed. Guess I'll see the answers to this and so much more in the morning

Have you ever been scum (or are you scum now...)? Killers play a game of waiting. They have to survive a certain number of nights and they win, esp in a game without healers, guards, or finders. Barring any tomfoolery (namely people not getting their act together) there will be one lynch per day, and one kill by night. Simple math for complex numbers. Fourth day is D-day, with 4 town and 2 scum at WCS.

This is a very basic M&P, and I'm not sure how you reason that scum would want to kill off a distraction.

As for TS, I would remind you that I started seriously looking at TS before Shelly. So not everyone was Shelly's sheep on that train, contrary to what you describe.

And the red highlighted phrase is also very careless. To the paired killers, everyone is decidedly innocent. They can talk to each other and they know they don't have a symp. Therefore, there is no "better" kill for them outside of looking for the best manner to screw over towns' ability to function.

Finally, the counterintuitive part of my post is what other people have already pointed out: I am looking at people who looked disinterested in the night kill target. Instead of looking at who nudged in favor of lynching Shelly (like a lot of the current suspects listed), I'm looking for those who knew Shelly would die over night or even those who realized a little too late that Shelly would have been nice to keep around to screw us on day 2. Either way, I don't think our killers were trying to steer a shelly lynch yesterday. Shelly was doing find allllll by herself.

[Ampelas]

Rashan, on 23 May 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hrmm, funny how we got completely different things from the same posts Rashan - it seemed to me that Ampelas' posts were rational and well thought out. He doesn't strike me as killer, he was one of the first to point out that Shelly was probably RPing, and basically stuck to that conviction. He jumped on the Tulas train, but I don't think he started it (I don't really remember), but in the end, I jumped on the Tulas train too, if only to get a lynch. Anyway, I disagree with you completely Rashan, and think you might be trying to move the attention away from you by analyzying something I had already said I would analyze, thus knowing or assuming I would probably end up on your train, so I'm going to take some time to read through your posts again before I move to Galain and/or Korbas.

Amp didn't start it I believe he just jumped on the ride. I think Kheltatha would have proven to be one of the bigger threats to the scum team. Most people drop role playing after day 1 and he was clearly a high poster that could run the thread. I think the nail in his coffin was when he started looking Amp's way. It wasn't worth letting him live another day where he might build a case against him.

I'm not surprised that any of you are looking at me since I was a vocal proponent of a Kheltatha lynch. I went out on a limb based on the theory that scum could be hiding behind high posting for a change and was wrong.

Galain I'm not sure of. He's a high poster, but I haven't really seen much in his content. I'll reread him and Korbas to see if I get the same feel that you do for them.

Again, don't have much time to post (I hadn't expected my week to be this busy) and I will be back later, but I want to address this before I leave.

First, having played the previous game with Serc, I knew that Khell was role-playing. The crazy leaps in logic, suggesting roles that were definitely not in the OP (especially the priest!) and suggesting that he had a great knowledge of mafia even though he was a 'noob' all made it very clear that he was playing a character. Because I knew he was playing a character I could ignore most of what he said, and it didn't bother me. In fact, I'm still rather confused by how many people took it seriously.

I would also like to point out that I wasn't actually on the Tulas train at all. I had returned to find that he had been lynched, and left without posting again.

Finally, he never really 'looked my way', he made a single post saying that he thought both I and Galain merited a further look. He seemed rather more interested in Galain, pointing out that Galain lining up lynch targets was rather suspect.

That is all I currently have time for, but I will return.

[Anomandaris]

Amp, here is why I made that list of potential reasons for killing SL:

Telas, on 23 May 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Just got up, surprised they killed off Shelly. I figured the killers would have left her around for the townies to take down. Which means that she must have been on to something. I believe she spent a good chunk of time accusing Ampelas, so when I have the time to go through the thread I'm going to read over her posts again to see if there's anything interesting in them that we may have missed.

Karosis, on 23 May 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

ok....it is odd to me that they killed shelly , simply because she was so controversial and would have definitely been a potential lynch target and discussed throughout the day. without going into too much wifom, this essentially resets us back to day 1 with both of our main scum suspects dead and confirmed town. dilemma.

it's possible that she was onto something at the end, and if someone wants to really look into that, great, but we can't assume it. i flat out said yesterday the killers would be crazy to kill shelly...and then they did. so it could just be deliberate attempt at confusion. also stalls our discussion quite a bit.

one thing that I do not like is that SL was really targeting Anomandaris at the end of the day and now ano is making lists (on noes, t3h scumz!) and actively investigating people who were not interested in shelly's lynch... lays a vote down pretty early too. almost seems too eager to help town find out why shelly was killed and then base his lynch on that.... smells of scum who knows too much and is taking the reins in the aftermath of night 1 confusion.

not sure what to make of it yet though. need some time to reread more.

The idea that Shelly was onto something is one of several possible MOs for her kill. The reason for the list was there are many other possibilities and I have a hard time believing paired killers discussing their night action via PM would agree that Shelly needed to go because her guesses were getting too close for comfort.

To reiterate, Shelly accused half of town for Pete's sake. Who was she "onto"? If people can scare up some quotes that show a clear leaning without a sudden change in vote from one suspect to another mere hours later, I would be more interested.

On the other hand, Amp and Korbas both did not seem that interested in Shelly on day 1. Why? Were they unworried because of the night kill action? Were they keeping their distance so as not to be linked with Shelly's death? Were they more blase' about Shelly's act because they knew she was town?