[Abyss]

Fuck... now I need to move up the schedule on that reread....
Part of the problem with your first question is the assumption that the fetch Caines are less real that the prime Caine. If you accept that all of them are just as potentially real, up until the final version asserts himself as the destiny Caine chooses, then the various identities and aliases are workable even if they are out of sequence. So when Caine refers to himself as Jonathan Fist ( which I associated with his Father's Fist aspect ) it's because he is adopting that alias, or already has. Same for Shade. The Horse Witch exists outside of all of that and only has one aspect in all realities, so for her all the Caines are equally valid... the one that has already made Shade's deal and the best me that has yet to but will, or might, or my head hurts.
Btw, welcome. Please don't hesitate to jump around and participate in any other threads that you're into.

[Tyshalle]

Apologies, I was actually borrowing language from earlier posts in this thread. I agree that all the Caine's are on some level equally real. Although, I believe in at least two of the cases, those Caine's die/are destroyed. T'farrell Ravenlock destroys Caine and Angvasse 50 years in the past as they are part of the Sword/Hand that Ravenlock needs to tap into in order to turn Duncan into the Gatekeeper, and then Caine/Angvasse after they're done with the Justice presumably fight their way up the Spire to rejoin the Hand and Sword for Ravenlock to tap into, but presumably doing so kills them too, at least that's what Caine seemed to think would happen.

So no less real, but biologically speaking, they're only days/months old, and then are killed or destroyed.

Where it gets particularly weird for me is trying to think about, mechanically, how it all works. Having spoken to Stover personally at length on the Magick of his first two Overworld books, I actually think he's a big enough nerd to have worked every detail out in his head. I don't think he shrugged any of this stuff off, including for instance, how Duncan even exists in the out-of-time dreamscape realm. I heard someone suggest he's something of a metaphor inside Caine's head, but I'm not so sure about that. I actually wonder--and thinking about this causality shit makes me dizzy--but I suspect it's somehow a mix of the Ravenlock's spell transporting his body, with Caine tapping into the Blind God and cyborged-Duncan on Earth. He's got the body/youth he did when he was with the Ravenlock 50 years ago, but all the memories he had up to the point he was cyborged. And it's not until Caine injects himself with the black oil that we are even introduced to the dreamworld. I could be very, very wrong about this, but I believe an explanation likely exists in the book somewhere. But unlike Heroes Die or Blade of Tyshalle, which--while very intelligent books--definitely wanted to make everything clear and would explain the mechanics at work, CBK and Caine's Law seem determined to make you re-read and re-read a few more times and really think about it so you can answer these questions yourself.

[Traveller]

Damn, I read these but you're making me feel like I haven't!

[champ]

Don't worry, Traveller, I'm having the exact same thoughts.

I've only read the series once but the recent updates in this thread are making me think that I should read it again.

This post has been edited by champ: 23 November 2016 - 04:36 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

Shoot, just yesterday I was contemplating giving CBK/CL a reread in December. This pretty much seals it.

[Aptorian]

I don't think I could handle rereading the books not knowing whether or not we will ever see more stories.

EDIT: Fuck

This post has been edited by Apt: 23 November 2016 - 05:13 PM

[Traveller]

I attempted a reread a while back and gave it up after a couple of chapters - you really need to be in the right mood for Caine.

[Abyss]

@Tyshalle - you met him! Damn, I'm envious.
I've sadly (fucking) accepted we won't see more Caine, but I'm really looking fed to my next reread... it will be my first since CL.
...Not counting having read the first three books twice and rereading CL right after I read it.

[polishgenius]

I'm always in the right fucking mood for Caine.

[Salt-Man Z]

BoT is one of those books that I can just take off the shelf and flip around to reread some choice scenes (the escape from the Pit, the final showdown, "knock fucking knock", etc.) and just lose myself for an hour.

(CBK has some as well, especially the opening scene--"Sun Tzu would've crapped his silk fucking pajamas"--but it's a tiny little book by comparison.)

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 23 November 2016 - 07:23 PM

[champ]

Marc? You home, old buddy? Knock fucking knock."

By far my favourite line in BoT.

Though I think it is BoT that is stopping me from rereading at the moment, unfortunately I have to be careful with things that can influence my moods at the minute and fuck, BoT is a lot of depressing.

It's interesting to look through the old thread and see my reactions to the book for the first time back in 2012, the memories.

[Salt-Man Z]

Nnngg, my aforementioned CBK/CL reread suddenly really wants to become a full-series one...

[Tyshalle]

Whenever I want to be cured of my blues, I open up Chapter... 17? I think. Where Caine is inside the Shaft, and mostly inside his own head, working out most of his problems with sheer fucking will.

"I will move my fucking legs..."

Gets me every time.

[Abyss]

For me it's the line about The Walk in HD.
I grin like a fucking idiot every time I read that.

[Tyshalle]

Arright, so to bring it back, I'd like to tackle a few questions one at a time.

First, starting with the beginning, what occurs in the opening chapter of CAINE'S LAW? A version of Caine has fought his way up to the top of the spire, killing everyone of importance along the way. He invokes Pirichanthe by name, and offers to kill it by pulling the Sword of Man from the platinum cap of the spire, but says before he does it, they need to make a deal.

What, exactly, is this deal? What does Pirichanthe do for Caine? It's my belief that this is an alternate, unhappened timeline completely lost from history, save for some echos that exist. The story the Horse-Witch tells during the chapter HORSE TIME I believe is in the same timeline as this, though I cannot say that with certainty. Caine also recalls it during his time at the Monastic Embassy in Thorncleft. But this is neither here nor there. What does Pirichanthe do for Caine?

It's possible it opened itself up to Caine, thereby creating the out-of-time dreamvision thing Caine spends all that time with Duncan in. However, there's reason to believe this isn't the case. Mainly in that we don't see this until immediately after Caine injects himself with the Blind God's black oil on Earth.

It's also possible the two are somehow connected, but nothing I've read has made that terribly clear.

Thoughts?

[Abyss]

Salt-Man Z, on 06 April 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

Stover's Heroes Die is $0.99 right now,

for those of you who haven't yet read it (shame!)

or don't own it in e-format.

http://amazon.com/dp/B001MYA38W (US only)

....so go fucking buy it rtf now.