[Ulrik]

I smell unnecessary drama... and Im tired for bickering about meaning of words, enjoy...




Edit: But not entirely. I dont think that someone shove our opinions into his throat. We just gave our reasoning why is better to take SE first... So, if you dont like that we see SE as better than ICE, so... deal with it as mature person. And yeah, SE is for me better writer than ICE... 

This post has been edited by Ulrik: 13 March 2012 - 05:40 PM

[Orlion]

I'm kinda with D'rek on this one. I'm usually all for brainwashing people into believing what I want, but we don't need to get into a 'so-and-so is a better writer/different type of writer/you'll like the Erikson books or so help you Beru..." discussions when the OP neither asked the open nor has the experience to say one way or the other. I, for one, think that this will be an interesting experimetn and I look forward to the OP's thoughts on the matter later in his reading career. I also advise him to wait until at least after Memories of Ice to read OST at the very earliest, but after Toll the Hounds is ideal.

[worry]

The problem with that opinion is that everything I said was correct, so to choose a different opinion is to deliberately be wrong for the sake of being contrary. And that runs counter to serving Ivanr's best interests in regards to this matter.

[blackzoid]

Look its the same way that someone could look at series 4 of show and than go back and look at series 1. You can do it sure. But you can't give out about their being a lack of drama in the earlier series as you will know for sure that the characters must survive.
Its not that one author is better than thye other, its that there is a rough cronological order to be observed. Why in the name of god is it an interesting experiment to spoil half of the combined series for oneself by reading RoTCG second? (You could get away with NoK first, but not RoTCG second). Its too late for this poster now but by no means should someone else be recommanded to start with all the ICE novels first. And its not brainwashing to state that. We are simply trying to preserve the complete reading experiance for the newcomers. Unless they don't intend to read SE.

[Orlion]

Since when was chronology important in the Malazan series? And who made you guys the holy arbitrators of the 'Malazan reading experience'? Erikson himself is known to recommend new readers ought to start elsewhere then the beginning, are you guys somehow more knowledgeable then he on the subject? And what's ruined by reading RotCG? Nothing in the Book of the Fallen. Most of the characters are exclusive to their respective series, and the ones that do cross over and try to hide their identities are a joke... seriously, who hasn't guessed the 'secret identities' of characters? The only things that seem to be 'spoiled' by reading the first three ICE books first are things that neither series really focus on anyway.

Edit: *sigh* A little dramatic, but it still stands. With the obvious exception of OST, I just can not see reading them before Erikson's series spoiling anything. Erikson has plenty of 'surprises' and character arches that never intersect with ICE's series.

This post has been edited by Orlion: 13 March 2012 - 08:29 PM

[worry]

[Ulrik]

Orlion, on 13 March 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Since when was chronology important in the Malazan series? And who made you guys the holy arbitrators of the 'Malazan reading experience'? Erikson himself is known to recommend new readers ought to start elsewhere then the beginning, are you guys somehow more knowledgeable then he on the subject? And what's ruined by reading RotCG? Nothing in the Book of the Fallen. Most of the characters are exclusive to their respective series, and the ones that do cross over and try to hide their identities are a joke... seriously, who hasn't guessed the 'secret identities' of characters? The only things that seem to be 'spoiled' by reading the first three ICE books first are things that neither series really focus on anyway.

Edit: *sigh* A little dramatic, but it still stands. With the obvious exception of OST, I just can not see reading them before Erikson's series spoiling anything. Erikson has plenty of 'surprises' and character arches that never intersect with ICE's series.

Well, iirc, he recommends publishing order... RotCG can spoil one pretty big event in DG(many more small, but that one is certainly BIG)...and chronology is of course important...Im prettycertain that TtH would change your view of many books chronologically before...not mentioning RG to MT and so on...sorry, your total reading anarchism isnt working here (but feel free, its your life and books)...and yeah, we are arbitrators of Malazan reading experience...or maybe we arent, but we certainly has some horrible disease...its called opinion...

Jesus, people are you actually reading what are others saying or you just turn your rage button on? Because if you read this thread properly, you will find opinions on the topic. What to read rather. If you cant stand opinion without blabbering "are you trying to force me/ him to think/ do something?! How dare you?!", please, dont try to participate in discussion. Or just start your responses with something like "IM FULLY AWARE THINKING BEING, DONT TRY TO PERSUADE ME!". And I will skip your entry...

But please, please... dont attack me, when I just add my opinion why is something (in case original poster asked) better... I dont need you or him to live by my advise... I really, deep in my humble life, dont care if you read it backwards, on your head, or if original poster reads ICE first...

...just let me say it without bitching, for fuck´s sake... And if you disagree, do it...but not in form "who are to tell me what to think/ read"...its stupid.

[Ivanr the Deliverer]

I think the electro-shock thing was about how plots from Erikson's books might be spoiled by reading Esselmont's first, actually..... But whatever.

[blackzoid]

Orlion, on 13 March 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Since when was chronology important in the Malazan series? And who made you guys the holy arbitrators of the 'Malazan reading experience'? Erikson himself is known to recommend new readers ought to start elsewhere then the beginning, are you guys somehow more knowledgeable then he on the subject? And what's ruined by reading RotCG? Nothing in the Book of the Fallen. Most of the characters are exclusive to their respective series, and the ones that do cross over and try to hide their identities are a joke... seriously, who hasn't guessed the 'secret identities' of characters? The only things that seem to be 'spoiled' by reading the first three ICE books first are things that neither series really focus on anyway.

Edit: *sigh* A little dramatic, but it still stands. With the obvious exception of OST, I just can not see reading them before Erikson's series spoiling anything. Erikson has plenty of 'surprises' and character arches that never intersect with ICE's series.

Perhaps I should clarify. Its PUBLISHING order between the 2 writers of a shared universe that would be ideal.

-------------SPOILERS but is strange as its an earlier published book to RoTCG!----------------

I'm thinking that RoTCG, which deals with many characters that are not exclusive to just ICE's series, spoils the fact that a certain character does not successd in performing an assassination on another said character in DG. That unassassinated character (or at least their influence) is felt for books afterwards. If the original poster reads RoTCG closely enough they are also aware of other plot points (a certain other characters successful reincarnation from DG. Is it a major point? Thats debatable. Does it ruin some of the dramatic tension of DG? Yes.)
I am not talking about the scret identity characters here, these are the named characters who die/are reincarnated in one book and are seen in another where their lives are at risk.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Erikson himself is known to recommend new readers ought to start elsewhere then the beginning, are you guys somehow more knowledgeable then he on the subject?"
Where is this mentioned? Is it where he mentions that a new reader could skip GOTM and start with DG? Thats really only the possible thing that comes to mind. Whats the problem with following published order to avoid spoilers if possible? Even if they are minor. (Major ones if the poster reads OST before TTH)

[Ulrik]

Ivanr the Deliverer, on 13 March 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I think the electro-shock thing was about how plots from Erikson's books might be spoiled by reading Esselmont's first, actually..... But whatever.

Too late! You are trapped inside vicious war between Protectors and Invaders! There is no escape from it. Oh, and I must act according to my role so... ahem...

So, give up your free mind! Obey to my dictate! Resistance is FUTILE!

[Salt-Man Z]

I'm being perfectly serious when I say that I find the idea of an Esslemont fan deciding to branch out into Erikson's work positively fascinating.

[Salt-Man Z]

To follow up on my comment, it kinda feels like affirmation/validation for Esslemont as an author; I get the feeling that maybe ICE is often viewed within the SFF fan community as that other guy who writes in Steven Erikson's world—goodness knows almost all of us here (though obviously not all of us!) only picked up ICE's books because of their relation to SE's work. To see people who are fans of ICE's work for no reason other than that they like ICE's books is pretty cool.

[Orlion]

blackzoid, on 13 March 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

Orlion, on 13 March 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

Since when was chronology important in the Malazan series? And who made you guys the holy arbitrators of the 'Malazan reading experience'? Erikson himself is known to recommend new readers ought to start elsewhere then the beginning, are you guys somehow more knowledgeable then he on the subject? And what's ruined by reading RotCG? Nothing in the Book of the Fallen. Most of the characters are exclusive to their respective series, and the ones that do cross over and try to hide their identities are a joke... seriously, who hasn't guessed the 'secret identities' of characters? The only things that seem to be 'spoiled' by reading the first three ICE books first are things that neither series really focus on anyway.

Edit: *sigh* A little dramatic, but it still stands. With the obvious exception of OST, I just can not see reading them before Erikson's series spoiling anything. Erikson has plenty of 'surprises' and character arches that never intersect with ICE's series.

Perhaps I should clarify. Its PUBLISHING order between the 2 writers of a shared universe that would be ideal.

-------------SPOILERS but is strange as its an earlier published book to RoTCG!----------------

I'm thinking that RoTCG, which deals with many characters that are not exclusive to just ICE's series, spoils the fact that a certain character does not successd in performing an assassination on another said character in DG. That unassassinated character (or at least their influence) is felt for books afterwards. If the original poster reads RoTCG closely enough they are also aware of other plot points (a certain other characters successful reincarnation from DG. Is it a major point? Thats debatable. Does it ruin some of the dramatic tension of DG? Yes.)
I am not talking about the scret identity characters here, these are the named characters who die/are reincarnated in one book and are seen in another where their lives are at risk.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Erikson himself is known to recommend new readers ought to start elsewhere then the beginning, are you guys somehow more knowledgeable then he on the subject?"
Where is this mentioned? Is it where he mentions that a new reader could skip GOTM and start with DG? Thats really only the possible thing that comes to mind. Whats the problem with following published order to avoid spoilers if possible? Even if they are minor. (Major ones if the poster reads OST before TTH)

I think it's a different experience, sure. But it's not a spoiled one. Here's a couple of examples: the Iliad is not ruined (spoiled) because you know how the Trojan war turns out, who lives and who dies, etc. Knowing actually enhances the reading, in a way. Hector's moments with his wife and kid are more poignant because you know Achilles is going to kill him, the Greeks are going to dash his son against the wall, and so forth. I find that this reader is going to have such an experience with the Malazan novels that none of us had on the initial read and that's what I find interesting.

I am, of course, against such spoilers like telling someone that B. Willis's character is dead throughout most of the Sixth Sense. Luckily, I think there are very few such moments in the Malazan narrative. So I'll change my "can read OST after MoI" to "for the love of the Queen of Dreams, don't read OST until after TtH!"

[worry]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[The Swordbearer]

Yes we Can!.
I has ALL the books both SE and ICE's and Toys cannae fergit tha toys

If its got Malazan its all good

[Deck of Dragons]

Actually, i like ICE better than Erickson. I like Glen Cook better than ICE or Erickson as well. But I can thank Erickson, for pointing out both Cook and ICE.

ICE's series can honestly be read on its own. You do not have to read the other books like these guys are saying. ICE's books are self-contained. But yes, you will be uncovering major spoilers but big deal. It's not like this series is linear anyway.

I highly recommend Gardens of the Moon though. It happens right after Night of Knives and is by far Steve's best book and is the closests to ICE's style of focusing on the Malazan Empire. It's also really self-contained like ICE's novels as well.

Eventually, you can tackle all of Steve's series. I think it is a bit much to force yourself to read all that before tackling Orb Sceptre Throne which you will like as an ICE reader. Steve does have an upcoming trilogy that will predate all the novels so maybe you could read those if you are not interested in the main series. Eventually, you will probably want to read everything, or at least the first 3 Book of the Fallen series.

Don't feel stupid for liking ICE better though. He is more of an old-school writer and his books are much cleaner, leaner, and coherent than Steves. I highly recommend Glen Cook's Instrumentalities of the Night, Dread Empire, and Black Company.

Lastly it was ICE who really started this. His novels Night of Knives and Return of the Crimson Guard were actually both written before Gardens of the Moon. Lots of ICE bashers don't seem to realize this.

This post has been edited by Deck of Dragons: 26 March 2012 - 03:20 AM

[kokosdera]

Aptorius, on 13 March 2012 - 10:16 AM, said:

You've already spoiled a lot of mysteries and revelations from the main series by reading RCG and SW. I'd definitely read the main series before I read OST. You'll be ruining endings and major plot points from GOTM, MOI, HOC, BH and TTH if you read OST first.

How about my reading order: GotM, DG, MoI, NoK. Now I am reading RotCG (around page 150).

From spoilers perspective, am I doing wrong by reading RotCG?

[worry]

Yah, kinda...RotCG will definitely spoil things up through The Bonehunters.