[amphibian]

That is the dangerous part about having a political leaders be 400+ million in debt to unknown people or institutions. This financial analysis shows exactly why he spends so much time at his golf properties - they're hemorrhaging money. He knows this intimately and his constant presence there means people can buy access to him, which helps him financially and he'll give deals to them - that we the taxpayers pay for now and years down the line.

This has already been happening with Rich Perry giving billions in energy deals to his Russian/Ukrainian oligarch buddies. https://time.com/588...energy-ukraine/

He is not doing his job - to be President - he is golfing to save his businesses. He is throwing away our money and power and reputation to make himself and his kids minorly rich. This guy is an asshole beyond belief.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 28 September 2020 - 04:07 PM, said:

That is the dangerous part about having a political leaders be 400+ million in debt to unknown people or institutions. This financial analysis shows exactly why he spends so much time at his golf properties - they're hemorrhaging money. He knows this intimately and his constant presence there means people can buy access to him, which helps him financially and he'll give deals to them - that we the taxpayers pay for now and years down the line.

This has already been happening with Rich Perry giving billions in energy deals to his Russian/Ukrainian oligarch buddies. https://time.com/588...energy-ukraine/

He is not doing his job - to be President - he is golfing to save his businesses. He is throwing away our money and power and reputation to make himself and his kids minorly rich. This guy is an asshole beyond belief.

Yep. Imagine this guy basically destroying the US democracy, being responsible for the deaths of 200k + people during a pandemic, all while trying his best to basically save the money in his businesses through political means...all for the debt that is a tiny fraction of the GDP.

Like it's bad enough the country go snowed by a con man....but you all are suffering, and your political system and government is in shambles for the PERSONAL debts of that fucking conman.

[Cyphon]

Can I ask a really stupid question? If trump wasn't president how many Americans would have died from Covid?

I dont think it would be zero. I know its rhetoric to say he's responsible for 200k deaths, but I'm not sure that's true. Thinking aloud I suppose some of the social issues driving it wouldn't have happened if Trump wasn't president so there direct and indirect consequences of him being president.

Ignorant/silly/devil's advocate question maybe. I wonder if anyone has done a credible counterfactual - not that there's any real point to doing that.

[QuickTidal]

Cyphon, on 28 September 2020 - 04:40 PM, said:

Can I ask a really stupid question? If trump wasn't president how many Americans would have died from Covid?

I dont think it would be zero. I know its rhetoric to say he's responsible for 200k deaths, but I'm not sure that's true. Thinking aloud I suppose some of the social issues driving it wouldn't have happened if Trump wasn't president so there direct and indirect consequences of him being president.

Ignorant/silly/devil's advocate question maybe. I wonder if anyone has done a credible counterfactual - not that there's any real point to doing that.

You have two problems that I can see.

1. The individual States seemed to enact what they wanted to enact regardless of what the President and his cronies said/demanded. So that would not go entirely away with a different Democratic president. ...but without his CONSTANT downplaying rhetoric, it would not be as bad as it is.

2. The rest of the Republican apparatus seems inclined to care way more about the economy than the lives of the people they claim to want to fight for.

And 200k is the death count. It's inarguable because in no scenario is Trump not president when those people die. Would it be more than zero, absolutely...but 200k of the million deaths on the planet compared to this in ALL the countries...is a big number. South Korea has had 406 deaths total for 51+ million population. The differences in those numbers don't lie, when a single STATE has massively higher death numbers.

If even in Canada we can't get a total lockdown and kicking the viruses ass (like South Korea, China, NZ, ect.) out because of a bu ch of wankers moaning about "personal freedoms" and "Won't someone think of the economy!"....then the DIVIDED States of America was never going to get it under control even without Trump. But his actions have made it SO much worse.

They'd probably have less deaths, but it would still be fighting a tide against the idiots who don't believe it's real, don't want to wear a mask ect.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 28 September 2020 - 05:00 PM

[amphibian]

I think Trump and the Senate GOP (led by McConnell) are responsible for about 150k deaths at this point. The CDC estimates at the high end that about 274,000+ excess deaths have occurred due to Covid-19 (https://www.cdc.gov/...cess_deaths.htm). Nobody can put an exact number on this, yet seeing so many other countries with huge populations deal much more successfully with this shows just how bad the response has been and continues to be.

A coordinated, competent, and timely federal response would have saved so many people and Trump is the person putting fucking Kushner in charge of non-existent response plans and pushing the feds to dispense millions to scammers selling bullshit masks.

The different states would have some variation in how they respond under a more competent president, but the sheer lack of guidance from the feds made it impossible to coordinate for many months for even the states trying to figure out how to handle this.

[amphibian]

"Here’s the conundrum: Florida law states felons can’t vote before paying all their sentence-related debts. Problem is: many can’t find out how much they owe. There’s no centralized system. We saw old debts handwritten on index cards." https://www.cbsnews....impression=true

They used to tell ex slaves how much they had to pay to vote (poll tax).

[Terez]

And now the Florida state AG is considering going after people/orgs paying off fines for providing monetary incentives to vote. That kind of pokes a hole in their claims that it's not about voter suppression.

[Cause]

First debate tonight! Not sure I’ll watch it live but I’m excited.

Also a little scared. I don’t buy into the fact that Biden has full blown dementia but it may only take one bad misstep to get crushed.

That said I’m also curious too see how it plays out. If the rumors are true Biden will have been preparing for weeks and trump has refused to. He has crumbled before when faced with real questions.

[Aptorian]

What's the over under on Trump sniffing profusely during the debate and having a little bit of bugger sugar in a nostril while he accuses Biden of being on drugs?

[QuickTidal]

Trump (if he attends, I feel like he might not... last minute) will find one or two points that will be blatant lies to hammer on Biden about and just keep doing it over and over...recall that in the 2016 debates Hillary LITERALLY brought up the now accurate revelations about him not paying taxes and he said out loud "That makes me smart"...AND NO ONE BATTED A FUCKING EYE.

This is why you're here. That shit should have ended his run then and there.

IT's not about what Biden says, or Trump says to most people. They have already decamped into their tribes of Right or Left. There are not the level of undecided that people think. This is theatre.

That said, get the popcorn because it will be good theatre if it happens.

[Cause]

The difference is trump is a known quantity at this point and way bensons the polls. Biden has to stay steady. Trump had to climb out the hole.

Saying the crap that just firms his base won’t help him, he has to reach out to that 5 percent of undecided. He has never shown an ability to do that.

[amphibian]

Aptorian, on 29 September 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

What's the over under on Trump sniffing profusely during the debate and having a little bit of bugger sugar in a nostril while he accuses Biden of being on drugs?

The rumor is that Trump doesn't do cocaine, he does Adderall.

And yes, he's a big enough dumbass to accuse people of doing the things he does regularly enough that it's likely he's doing this too.

However, I am someone who thinks most drugs should be legalized and doctors able to work with people to get them what they need. So I don't care much about what the candidates do in terms of drugs and think that their relative immunity to carceral consequences should apply to everyone.

[Malankazooie]

Quote

"The president added that he takes far more questions from the White House press corps than Biden takes from the reporters covering his campaign, arguing those sessions with reporters are a form of debate prep."

- source: APnews

So, does that mean if Chris Wallace asks a hard hitting question he doesn't like he'll just walk away from the podium?

[HoosierDaddy]

Malankazooie, on 29 September 2020 - 09:37 PM, said:

Quote

"The president added that he takes far more questions from the White House press corps than Biden takes from the reporters covering his campaign, arguing those sessions with reporters are a form of debate prep."

- source: APnews

So, does that mean if Chris Wallace asks a hard hitting question he doesn't like he'll just walk away from the podium?

No, he's going to do what they all do: refuse to answer a direct question with a direct answer. Generally they all do this to some degree, they'll tangentially touch on the question then pivot to their talking points. Trump just straight up refuses the tangential touch before just saying whatever the fuck he wants. So, ok. Fair enough.

[Cause]

20 minutes on and trump has already accused the moderator as being unfair.

That said I, not sure Biden is covering himself in glory either.

[Slow Ben]

This is an absolute cluster fuck.

And the president is a petulant child.

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 30 September 2020 - 01:35 AM, said:

This is an absolute cluster fuck.

And the president is a petulant child.

Yep. And his whole thing is throw as much shit into the ether that it’s hard to respond to one thing...and while Biden tries to respond to one, Trump starts talking over him and making snide comments.

He’s a fucking clown.

I wish Biden had more fire for trump...he’s being too high road. Bernie would have chewed him up.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 September 2020 - 01:54 AM

[Cause]

Am I crazy, if your going to say you have two minutes to answer c uninterrupted, should you not just mute the other speakers mic?

Also Chris Wallace is losing control of this debate.

[HoosierDaddy]

Against my better instincts I'm peeking on the debate.

Blurgh. Biden doesn't sound good. Sigh. Good god.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Also called Trump a 'clown' and told him to 'shut up'.