[EmperorMagus]

A high ranking IRGC officers said this in response to Flynn's comments yesterday:

"If they are afraid of our missiles, they can go to bomb shelters. Each day a new tree will grow in the forest of our missiles (doesn't translate well, basically that we're going to keep doing it)"

Yeah, this is going to end well. The hardliners in Iran are already talking about breaking the nuclear agreement if the US institutes more sanctions.

[Mentalist]

 QuickTidal, on 02 February 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

 Mentalist, on 02 February 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 02 February 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

 Vengeance, on 02 February 2017 - 02:31 PM, said:

Read these two. It will blow you away. One is able to construct sentences and the other barely able to speak. You won't believe who...

http://www.sfgate.co...vs-10901062.php
...

That is painful on multiple levels.

It totally is. But.

I hate to be the devil's advocate guy, but objectively, we are comparing Obama's speech after 8 years of presidency with Trump's "I just got inaugurated" speech.

In order to be objective, we need Obama's 2009 speech. Which I'm sure was still tons better, but then at least you have objective reasons to bash Trump.

no we don't.

1. It's CLEAR Trump has forgone "speech writers" which Obama had from Day damned 1. SO instead of writers penning an coherent and on topic speech...he's just talking out of his ass for 10 minutes.

2. We know this is not a one-off where he didn't use speech writers...because his Prayer Breakfast speech is similarly WAY off topic and self-aggrandizing.

So no...he doesn't get the benefit of doubt of "time in the job" from me. Not even an inch.

Lol. Vengy DID call it "clickbait". And that's how it's structured.

Once again, far be it from me to say anything good about the guy.
But I don't like it when writers use techniques I recognize to play up confirmation biases-especially when it's stuff I already agree with without manipulation. So I'm gonna call them out on it, so that people can evaluate stuff objectively.

[worry]

Does it matter if she deserved it? Like if we somehow determined that she did, in fact, deserve it, is it going to change anybody's mind?

[worry]

I mean did Reginald Denny deserve the violence inflicted upon him during the 1992 L.A. riots? Decidedly not.

Does that mean the riots weren't justified? Does it mean we have to pretend the violence started with the rioters? Of course not, on both fronts. Rodney King was beaten nearly to death. The verdict was itself a violent slap in the face of an entire community. Riots happen for various reasons, but one of them -- as much as you may want to nitpick individual actions -- is self-defense.

[Malankazooie]

I'm not sure what point is being made by posting that video, other then yeah, there probably is at least one asshole on either side of these demonstrations/protests that is willing to elevate tensions to such a level that they commit assault (which, duh, no one deserves). And from what I read it was a private citizen who they are trying to find.

Now if it was something like what happened during occupy wall street when a police officer pepper sprayed a line of sit down, peaceful demonstrators, well then, that may be something more worthwhile to examine. Another example of this is using water canons on demonstrators at the DAPL site when temps were below zero.

[Malankazooie]

 Cheesewiz, on 03 February 2017 - 01:19 AM, said:

I can see I've been misunderstood again. It's cool I'm used to it by now. I won't try to explain cause that ll prob be misunderstood as well I imagine. No worries.

Oh shit, I'm sorry man. I read more into it then I should have.

So yeah, of the two options (getting punched vs. mace/pepper spray). I would definitely choose a punch, especially if the person doing the punching is a limp-wristed, pillow biter from Berkeley. 100% !

[worry]

I think it's that you posted it in the Politics thread -- and by implication seem to be making a broader point about the UC Berkeley event and/or violent protests. If you had posted it in like the Groove thread, then it's more just like "Yeah, maybe it sucks one college student pepper sprayed another college student for wearing a MAGA hat."

Also maybe I've been kind of annoyed by a couple "violence is never the answer" blanket statement people I know IRL, who've been harping about the ethics of "progressives violently shutting down Milo's free speech" etc.

[MTS]

With the right/left relationship being as adversarial as it has ever been, I fear this will become much more common, on both sides.

As far as the choice, I would go the pepper spray for sure. Punches can too easily cause permanent damage, even death, particularly if they're sucker/coward punches. As far as I'm aware pepper spray damage, though it stings like an absolute bitch, is more temporary.

[Primateus]

White House turns off recording.

I don't know if this is true or not. If true, I don't know if it's been done during previous administrations, but it seems interesting that the Trump administration would do this amidst allegations of undue Russian influence.

[MTS]

 Primateus, on 03 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

White House turns off recording.

I don't know if this is true or not. If true, I don't know if it's been done during previous administrations, but it seems interesting that the Trump administration would do this amidst allegations of undue Russian influence.

Nixon was supposed to have erased some of the recordings surrounding the Watergate scandal, so it doesn't surprise me at all.

Some will take this as clear confirmation of Russian influence in the election (it will probably be unknowable what was said in the call). At this point, surely Pence would be better in charge than Trump? No guarantee he'd be any more competent, but at least he'd (hopefully) respect the Constitution and established political norms. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

[Aptorian]

 MTS, on 03 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

 Primateus, on 03 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

White House turns off recording.

I don't know if this is true or not. If true, I don't know if it's been done during previous administrations, but it seems interesting that the Trump administration would do this amidst allegations of undue Russian influence.

Nixon was supposed to have erased some of the recordings surrounding the Watergate scandal, so it doesn't surprise me at all.

Unless you are arguing that Trump is possessed by the ghost of Richard Nixon I don't understand how this is connected.

[QuickTidal]

Primateus asked if this had been done during previous administrations....and MTS answered that Nixon did it.

[Aptorian]

Yeah, but what is the connection to that administration? That Nixon was a bad person and Trump is also a bad person, therefore obviously Trump is also deleting phone conversations?

I mean Trump is a terrible human being and a disgrace of a President but unless you have ancient staff members in the White House that served under Nixon then I don't see how the example is connected.

I fucking loathed Bush but I would still be surprised if I heard he was a deleting diplomatic exchanges with the Ruskies.

EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, I probably wouldn't be that surprised.

This post has been edited by Apt: 03 February 2017 - 02:29 PM

[Vengeance]

 Apt, on 03 February 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

 MTS, on 03 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

 Primateus, on 03 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

White House turns off recording.

I don't know if this is true or not. If true, I don't know if it's been done during previous administrations, but it seems interesting that the Trump administration would do this amidst allegations of undue Russian influence.

Nixon was supposed to have erased some of the recordings surrounding the Watergate scandal, so it doesn't surprise me at all.

Unless you are arguing that Trump is possessed by the ghost of Richard Nixon I don't understand how this is connected.

It implies that you have something to hide. I actually thought that after watergate it was law that all phone calls had to be recorded.

[QuickTidal]

I wonder if he's removed the bugs that record the meeting rooms in the white house that Kennedy had put in during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I'm fairly sure they became a staple after that, but I'm not 100%

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 03 February 2017 - 03:02 PM

[Primateus]

 MTS, on 03 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

 Primateus, on 03 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

White House turns off recording.

I don't know if this is true or not. If true, I don't know if it's been done during previous administrations, but it seems interesting that the Trump administration would do this amidst allegations of undue Russian influence.

Nixon was supposed to have erased some of the recordings surrounding the Watergate scandal, so it doesn't surprise me at all.

Some will take this as clear confirmation of Russian influence in the election (it will probably be unknowable what was said in the call). At this point, surely Pence would be better in charge than Trump? No guarantee he'd be any more competent, but at least he'd (hopefully) respect the Constitution and established political norms. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

True, Pence does seem far more competent. Which should scare people, I think. I read someone saying they preferred stupid incompetence in favour of intelligent and competent villainy.

[amphibian]

Pence oversaw an HIV/AIDS epidemic because he believes that's the punishment "these people deserve".

As President, he'd be worse than Trump. Pence is as evil as Cheney, except he's more willing to wreak havoc on American people than Cheney was on Iraqis.

[HoosierDaddy]

 amphibian, on 03 February 2017 - 06:48 PM, said:

Pence oversaw an HIV/AIDS epidemic because he believes that's the punishment "these people deserve".

As President, he'd be worse than Trump. Pence is as evil as Cheney, except he's more willing to wreak havoc on American people than Cheney was on Iraqis.

Yay Indiana!

He actively cut the needle program here, exacerbating the situation terribly.

Oh, can't forget legalizing discrimination against LGBT people, until he realized how terribly he fucked up.

He would have lost if he'd run for Governor, again.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 03 February 2017 - 07:15 PM

[Aptorian]

Just saw this image on Reddit:



Now, assuming this isn't a doctored photo, this picture basically encapsulates what I most hate about career politicians. I feel like if a politician is caught having this big of a swing from A to B in terms of political beliefs and values, then they need to be excluded from a public office. It completely undermines anything else you're going to hear from them from then on in and it furthers the mistrust and confusion the general public harbors for politics in general.

How can you tweet that you find a Muslim ban offensive and unconstitutional 14 months earlier and then spearhead that same movement a little over a year later? I get that real politics is the art of compromise but at some point you sell your fucking soul.

[worry]

It's not doctored. In fact the Tweet is still live, as far as I know.

Republicans want power and money, period. That's why they're able to present such a solid front, and it's why scruples are abandoned willy nilly.

Democrats are a bigger mishmash. Because power isn't the goal for most progressive civvies, a lot of those who deserve political leadership positions never go after them. This leaves a vacuum for unscrupulous opportunists who are essentially moderate Republicans (Joe Lieberman, Joe Manchin) forming a coalition w/ well-meaning people who aren't suited for politics and get eaten alive by the system and GOP opponents, the milquetoast moderates who champion socially progressive causes only when they're already popular and fiscally progressive causes almost never (Pelosi, Bill & Hillary), and a few truly progressive fighters who've earned their stripes the ideal way (Sanders, Warren). Obama is something of a hybrid between those latter two groups.

And everyone feels the ever-present sucking of campaign finance, which (as far as souls go) works like the Nothing from The Neverending Story.