[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on 25 April 2019 - 03:04 PM, said:

Or he could just grab them by the pussy?

Sole priority here should be selecting who can best defeat Trump. Joe can eat into his racist/anxiety riddled (lol) midwestern bloc.

Incorrect.

No one will eat into the Trumpets. Stop trying to select people who do.

Select, as the nominee, someone who will energize people who see 'a choice between two old white men' as one they don't get out to vote for.

That's how you win the 2020 election. I'd prefer Elizabeth Warren, but Kamala Harris could do it as well.

[HoosierDaddy]

Notice I didn't give a preferred nomination? Merely a rebuttal to the Democrats eating each other alive which they will do and thus hand Trump more ammunition than he needs with comments like the one I responded to.

Harris ain't happening. Warren has a chance and I like her positions. I'll see what happens there, but the MW is being sliced and diced right now amongst like 4 candidates.

Saying there is no chance in cutting into the Trump bloc in the Midwest is giving away the election. Lots of those people voted for Obama.

[worry]

The best way to beat Trump is with policy that actually appeals to people. Not personality, not name recognition, not the veneer of aw shucks folksiness. We've already had one Obama-but-dumber candidate go down in flames to Trump, and there's no way Biden is smarter than Clinton. He's the poster boy for Grade A establishment Dem morons who still thinks his 'friends' in the GOP won't feast on his viscera if Trump asked them to. So if Biden doesn't want to get eaten alive in the primary, maybe he shouldn't suck so much ass policy-wise. But instead he's gonna get a TPP tattoo on his forehead administered by Neera Tanden, and his slogan will be Medicare For Banks!

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on 25 April 2019 - 04:37 PM, said:

Notice I didn't give a preferred nomination? Merely a rebuttal to the Democrats eating each other alive which they will do and thus hand Trump more ammunition than he needs with comments like the one I responded to.

Harris ain't happening. Warren has a chance and I like her positions. I'll see what happens there, but the MW is being sliced and diced right now amongst like 4 candidates.

Saying there is no chance in cutting into the Trump bloc in the Midwest is giving away the election. Lots of those people voted for Obama.

I'm saying the people who still support Trump are going to do so regardless of if you dug up Reagans body and ran on his old positions. These people wont be swayed by trivial things like facts or plans or proposals.

Going after trumpets is not the solution. Energizing the Democratic base and actually getting people out to vote, and paying attention to them, is.

PS - I'm not saying you suggested Biden is the best candidate, but I am stating that Biden is not a candidate that can beat Trump.

This post has been edited by Obdigore: 25 April 2019 - 06:50 PM

[worry]

In addendum, I'd say I don't expect the primary to get particularly nasty. HRC vs Obama was bad because of all the racism she and her staff flung his way, and he still won. And I don't think anyone in this round is gonna go that route. Bernie vs. Hillary was super tame until the DNC-HRC cheating was outed, and even that wasn't derailing. Mostly the nasty rep that campaign has comes from salty post-election HRC/staff/supporters rationalizing her loss as Bernie's fault and trying to kneecap him ever since. But nothing from the actual primary, like between the two candidates, was a big factor in her loss.

[HoosierDaddy]

Anyone claiming HRC saltiness who doesn't recognize Berniebros is willfully blind. There will be mud slung; too many in the same lanes not to do so and not commit political malpractice by hired guns.


I like Pete right now. We'll see how that goes for now.

[Obdigore]

HoosierDaddy, on 25 April 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

Anyone claiming HRC saltiness who doesn't recognize Berniebros is willfully blind. There will be mud slung; too many in the same lanes not to do so and not commit political malpractice by hired guns.


I like Pete right now. We'll see how that goes for now.

I would say that I think a lot of the 'berniebros', especially those that claim 'I wanted bernie and when he was gone I voted for Trump!' are disinformation bots.

[HoosierDaddy]

Undoubtedly so.

Not the ones in my real life who hated Clinton so terribly and owned up to it.

[worry]

What I'm saying is that the general election campaign determined the general election outcome in '16, as it did in years previous, and as it will in 2020. The primary campaign didn't. We all know the defection rate from Bernie to Trump was about 10-12%, and largely made up of independents who swung to Bernie and then away from HRC -- perhaps because she's a woman, perhaps because she's an establishment hack, perhaps for other reasons -- but by definition, that wouldn't make them Bernie-or-Bust. And of course, that number is dwarfed by the 25% of defectors from HRC to McCain in '08 -- you don't need to guess why so many did that. So of course sexism definitely played a role in HRC's loss -- it's one of many factors that did -- but the numbers that made that possible come largely from rank and file registered Dem men, not Bernie Bros. I don't think you disagree with that, because this is largely the population you think that can be won back in '20.

So HRC wasn't eaten alive in the primary, she lost the general. To be clear, I don't think it was entirely due to self-inflicted wounds. And I tend to think people who won't rally around the candidate, whoever it may be, to defeat Trump will be practicing human sacrifice to feed their egos. I've made some acquaintances on the left mad suggesting that when you're past the primaries, and down to a binary choice, you DO choose the lesser of two evils -- especially if you're not directly in the cross hairs of the more evil candidate's policies. So on that I think we agree wholeheartedly. But what I don't want to see is Dems shooting themselves in the foot playing it 'safe' with another uninspiring loser candidate. The point of the primary is to make the choice that doesn't lead you to having to pick between the lesser of two evils, as much as possible.

This post has been edited by worry: 25 April 2019 - 09:05 PM

[worry]

I don't mean to focus so much on 2016. My overall point is that a rigorous primary is nothing to be scared of, and is actually quite good and healthy.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'The Masters Of Meme Magic Are Sick Of Trump And Going Full Yang
In the meme-forging bowels of the internet, MAGA hats are out of favor and bright pink vaporwave Yang hats are the new hotness.'

https://www.buzzfeed...UEOdKFST_ZUvnJ8

[Nicodimas]

QuickTidal, on 25 April 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

Tsundoku, on 25 April 2019 - 11:41 AM, said:

Question: hey law dudes, can SC justices be fired?

From what I understand they can only be Impeached, unless they retire or die.

And as far as I understand it, it works just like impeaching a Presdient, which means you need 2/3 of the Senate to make it happen?

Also, did you guys hear that Trump has said that he would "challenge" impeachment in the Supreme Court.

Like what the everloving FUCK?

What good are your supposed Checks and Balances if the President can basically stack the court (as he's done) and challenge his own ousting with cronies?

Like fuck...can he even do that? Does the SCOTUS have a say in the Impeachment process?

We are more likely to see term limits come up for this position before a SC justice ever gets removed minus health/volunteering for it.

Won’t ever happen

Sidebar: Been saying Dems should concentrate on being beating Trump vs trying to impeach him since day one. America LOVES a winner. Plain and simple

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 26 April 2019 - 04:52 AM

[Mezla PigDog]

I'm an optimist. I think the Trump win and the Brexit win are mostly about people voting for change away from the status quo rather than the majority of people being bigots. People certainly disagree on the type of change they want but I do believe that what is needed is the Dems offering up something new and hopeful. People will totally vote for that because whether you are right or left leaning these days I think we all agree that the establishment sucks. It is what has killed the centre, people desperate for change faced with a binary choice of status quo vs crazy will either not vote or vote for something radical.

The right have their poster boys who pretend to be radical but are actually deep in the establishment but good at rhetoric. The "left" need to put forward a truly new credible option and I think they'll win by a landslide.

[Macros]

I want to optimistically think like Mez.
But the Murdoch media has too much influence now, I see us going down the demagogue route until Rome burns

[Maark Abbott]

Unfortunately the rise of the right can almost entirely be attributed to the Murdoch empire et al, the fact that bigotry is not just accepted but actively encouraged is very telling.

The ironic thing about Brekshit is that people did yes vote because they wanted change, but the hard-right governing party we have somehow fooled thick voters into thinking all the problems they were creating were actually the fault of the Europeans, and of course British people love to think they're somehow better than mainlanders.

[Mezla PigDog]

Macros, on 26 April 2019 - 11:50 AM, said:

I want to optimistically think like Mez.
But the Murdoch media has too much influence now, I see us going down the demagogue route until Rome burns

Yes but only because there isn't a hugely inspiring alternative to it. The alternative is the status quo - the BBC are pretty shit, always treading on eggshells and massively conservative. There's only 1 regular presenter on Newsnight who wasn't privately educated. We need proper inspiring lefties as opposed to champagne socialists.

[Macros]

I cry laugh at hard brexiteers. The EU didn't privatise BT, the power, the trains, water services or hard fuck the NHS, the wankers who championed the Brexit campaign did.

[Gorefest]

Ugh, Trump again. Now whoring out to the NRA once again. Every time you think it couldnt get worse with that vile creature.

[worry]

They do make a great team, you gotta admit.

[worry]

Gorefest, on 26 April 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:

Every time you think it couldnt get worse with that vile creature.

It can always get worse. He's a white supremacist fascist inching us towards genocide. I don't necessarily think it's likely, and it's certainly -- certainly -- preventable, but let's just say we're moving towards it rather than away from it at the moment.



(We don't have a Secretary of Defense, mind you -- we have an acting Secretary making this decision, a 30-year employee and war profiteer from Boeing appointed by DJT and not confirmed by the Senate).