[HoosierDaddy]

Overview:

Ryan needed to not be Sarah Palin. He was most certainly not. He seemed vice-presidential and somewhat knowledgeable on foreign affairs. He had to not get beat badly. He succeeded.

Biden needed to reinvigorate the Democrats and win. He reinvigorated Democrats for sure, as he came out gunning and wouldn't let Ryan slide. Did he win? If he did it was a decision by points and not a knock-out.

Acceptable performances by both which sets up the second debate: town hall style.

Town Hall style debates are so hit and miss. The right questions are far more illuminating than anything in a regular debate, while the wrong questions are absolutely wastes of time compared to a regular debate. Should be interesting. Far more risk/reward there for the candidates.

[Obdigore]

Better overview:

When Biden responded to Ryans attack on abortion by saying 'I don't believe in it but I don't believe it is my place to force my values upon others', he won the debate.

Also:

[Primateus]

On a sidenote, that picture makes Biden look like a sad old man who's trying to look young by dyeing his hair and makes Ryan look like an escaped mental patient.

[Shinrei]

Obdigore, on 12 October 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Better overview:

When Biden responded to Ryans attack on abortion by saying 'I don't believe in it but I don't believe it is my place to force my values upon others', he won the debate.

I am not weighing in to support Romney/Ryan, and I actually agree with Biden's position, but stop and think about that quote. Did he abstain from every single vote he ever had as a Senator? I'm pretty sure he's forced his values on others in a myriad of ways.

[Obdigore]

Shinrei, on 12 October 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 12 October 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Better overview:

When Biden responded to Ryans attack on abortion by saying 'I don't believe in it but I don't believe it is my place to force my values upon others', he won the debate.

I am not weighing in to support Romney/Ryan, and I actually agree with Biden's position, but stop and think about that quote. Did he abstain from every single vote he ever had as a Senator? I'm pretty sure he's forced his values on others in a myriad of ways.

No, it was in response to Ryan trying to say Biden is trying to control peoples lives, before he goes off into his typical 'small government' lie.

[worry]

True, he had just finished talking about the Social Doctrine right before he said that, so I get what you're saying. On the other hand, that doctrine has plenty of non-religious practical applications/manifestations, while the anti-abortion & anti-contraceptive positions (which was being specifically addressed) only stand on religious grounds as far as I'm concerned, and barely even then at that. So yah, a clumsy bit of language I agree. I also believe (at least snarkily in comments sections) we'll see some minor blowback about Biden's rejoinder to the 47%/30% thing with "Yah, and I mean what I say." It was a decent (and honest) burn against Romney/Ryan -- because they too meant what they said when they said those things -- but it also opens Biden up to being mocked for the goofy things he's said over the years off the cuff. All that said, I don't have many complaints about his performance, and none that I'd term major.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 12 October 2012 - 09:39 AM

[LinearPhilosopher]

Shinrei, on 12 October 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Obdigore, on 12 October 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Better overview:

When Biden responded to Ryans attack on abortion by saying 'I don't believe in it but I don't believe it is my place to force my values upon others', he won the debate.

I am not weighing in to support Romney/Ryan, and I actually agree with Biden's position, but stop and think about that quote. Did he abstain from every single vote he ever had as a Senator? I'm pretty sure he's forced his values on others in a myriad of ways.

representing the values of his voters is not the same as enforcing his own upon others.

[Terez]

Okay, this is worth a full quoting:

The Onion said:

For weeks many Beltway insiders had written off the Romney campaign as dead, saying the candidate had dug himself into too deep a hole with too little time to recover. However, with a month to go before ballots are cast, Romney has pulled even with President Obama, and the former Massachusetts governor credits his rejuvenated campaign to one, singular tactic: lying a lot. "I'm lying a lot more, and my lies are far more egregious than they've ever been," a smiling Romney told reporters while sitting in the back of his campaign bus, adding that when faced with a choice to either lie or tell the truth, he will more than likely lie. "It's a strategy that works because when I lie, I'm essentially telling people what they want to hear, and people really like hearing things they want to hear. Even if they sort of know that nothing I'm saying is true."

"It's a freeing strategy, really, because I don't have to worry about facts or being accurate or having any concrete positions of any kind," Romney added.

Romney said he is telling at least 80 percent more lies now than he was two months ago. Buoyed by his strong debate performance, which by his own admission included 40 or 50 instances of lying in one 90-minute period, the candidate said he will continue to "just openly lie [his] ass off" until the Nov. 6 election.

Whether it's a senior citizen, military family, working mother, businessman, or middle-class American, Romney said, he will lie to every single one of them as often as he can if that's what it takes to win the presidency.

"The best part is, it's really easy to lie," said Romney, who added that voicing whatever untruths come into his mind at any given moment is an easy thing to do because all it requires is opening his mouth and talking. "For example, if someone accuses me of having a tax plan that makes no discernable sense, I just lie and say that I do have a tax plan that makes sense. I also say there is a study that backs up my plan. See that? Simple. None of it is remotely true, of course, but now we're moving on to the next topic because people are usually too afraid to ask me straight up if I'm lying, because that is apparently not something you ask someone who is running for president."

Moreover, Romney said, if anyone does accuse him of lying, he will simply say he is not lying, which he noted is just an extension of the overall strategy.

"So, if I'm talking to retirees," Romney continued, "I lie and say I'll fight tooth and nail to save Medicare, which causes them to applaud. On the other hand, if I'm talking to the party base, I lie and say we have to cut Medicare, which causes them to applaud. So, you see, my goal here is to get everyone applauding for me, because if everyone is clapping their hands, standing on their feet, and shouting my name, that means they like me and will vote for me."

Romney's campaign advisers said that they adopted the strategy of lying a lot after realizing several things: (1) Lying sounds good, especially when the truth sounds bad, (2) the American media doesn't care if you lie, (3) the American people don't care if you lie, and (4) it's okay to lie if you are very, very desperate to become the president of the United States.

"If we're going to be carried into the White House, it's going to have to be on a wave of lies," Romney campaign manager Matt Rhoades said. "Most important, Mitt is comfortable when he is lying because then he doesn't have to say anything bad. And in this last month it's important that we just let Mitt be Mitt, whoever the hell that is."

"It's late in the game, but this campaign has finally found its groove," Rhoades added. "And that groove is lying. Bald-faced, make-no-apologies, dirty, filthy lying."

According to Romney, amidst all the lies, there is only one thing that remains true.

"I literally have no clue where I stand on any single issue at this point," said Romney, adding that when it comes to women's rights, gay rights, health care, the middle class, the economy, or the U.S. military, all he knows is how to lie about them. "I understand what other people want. And what I've learned, especially in the past week, is that in order to be a viable candidate for the White House, that's all you really need to know."

Following the interview, Romney told various reporters that, if elected, he would save the newspaper industry.

[LinearPhilosopher]

nvm, didn't realize it was the onion.

This post has been edited by BalrogLord: 13 October 2012 - 05:11 PM

[worry]

You just got http://literallyunbelievable.org/ 'd.

[Terez]

heh, The Onion is at its best when it's almost believable.

[worry]

http://www.washingto...tchen-photo-op/

The head of a northeast Ohio charity says that the Romney campaign last week “ramrodded their way” into the group’s Youngstown soup kitchen so that GOP vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan could get his picture taken washing dishes in the dining hall.

Brian J. Antal, president of the Mahoning County St. Vincent De Paul Society, said that he was not contacted by the Romney campaign ahead of the Saturday morning visit by Ryan, who stopped by the soup kitchen after a town hall at Youngstown State University.

“We’re a faith-based organization; we are apolitical because the majority of our funding is from private donations,” Antal said in a phone interview Monday afternoon. “It’s strictly in our bylaws not to do it. They showed up there, and they did not have permission. They got one of the volunteers to open up the doors.”

He added: “The photo-op they did wasn’t even accurate. He did nothing. He just came in here to get his picture taken at the dining hall.”

Ryan had stopped by the soup kitchen for about 15 minutes on his way to the airport after his Saturday morning town hall in Youngstown. By the time he arrived, the food had already been served, the patrons had left, and the hall had been cleaned.

Upon entering the soup kitchen, Ryan, his wife and three young children greeted and thanked several volunteers, then donned white aprons and offered to clean some dishes. Photographers snapped photos and TV cameras shot footage of Ryan and his family washing pots and pans that did not appear to be dirty.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Terez, on 13 October 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

heh, The Onion is at its best when it's almost believable.

it was more along the lines of "this is so incredible it can't be true". Then you see the source and say, damm i just got trolled.

[Terez]

I love this article:

http://www.nytimes.c...all-street.html

It's old (from May), but things like this give me hope:

Quote

The Republican primary — which forced Romney far to the right on issues like immigration and reproductive rights — had soured some Wall Streeters on his chances to win in November. And negotiations over the implementation of the new Dodd-Frank financial regulations had made large Wall Street institutions, chiefly banks, wary of open war with the White House. "Most of them are scared stiff of the president," a top Romney bundler on Wall Street told me recently. "Including the ones on our side."

But by the beginning of the year, it had also become obvious to many on Wall Street that Obama's campaign was going to take a populist turn. Some bankers believed that the administration's strategy was to talk tough in public and play damage control in private, and they were sick of playing along.

Dear god I hope Obama gets outspent and still wins. If that happens, the game changes. I hope a second term less beholden to Wall Street is a possibility; he's largely getting ditched for Romney and that's all Obama needs to gain the upper hand in those negotiations. The populist side of Obama, that is.

[Terez]

*nervous twitch*

[Illuyankas]

http://www.romneytaxplan.com/

[HoosierDaddy]

Massacre him, Obama. Romney doesn't look strong.

[HoosierDaddy]

STOP INTERRUPTING YOU DOUCHENOZZLE FUCK FACE.

[Terez]

It looks like Candy Crowley is going to be aggressive on that.

[worry]

I'm not watching it yet, but please tell me it's better than last time overall!