[EmperorMagus]

I've been reading Hanna Arendt's "Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil" for the past few days, and last night I arrived at a passage that seemed to describe someone in the public consciousness at this very moment:

Quote

The longer one listened to him, the more obvious it became that his inability to speak was closely connected with an inability to think, namely, to think from the standpoint of somebody else. No communication was possible with him, not because he lied but because he was surrounded by the most reliable of all safeguards against the words and the presence of others, and hence against reality as such.

She wrote this in 1963. I mention it in this thread because it seems awfully relevant ...

[worry]

So Roy Moore was banned from a mall in Alabama for cruising underage girls, among other "this was common knowledge to everyone around him" revelations. That's not surprising, I guess. What is surprising is that he might actually lose his race. Here's hoping.

Nearly as pertinently, though, I like this article about Dems' woeful history of eliding Bill Clinton's worst deeds, and how the party has to reconcile it, and shed that skin entirely: https://www.theatlan...-crimes/545729/

I tend to believe young people are more likely to put principle above partisanship. Which has led to a lot of friction for both major parties lately, and probably will into the foreseeable future (and it's pretty clear there are vultures who will take advantage of that). But in the long run, I'm hoping it means the old tricks work less and less, and the letting things slide so you have the most surface-level appealing candidate gives way to policy focus.

Of course I think it's all too late, as desertification kills half of us and superstorms kill the other half, but if that doesn't happen I do hope I'm right in my observation of this trend.

[QuickTidal]

Ocean Acidification is the most present threat actually.

[worry]

Some say krill are the bees of the ocean.

[Vengeance]

worry, on 14 November 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

Some say krill are the bees of the ocean.

But with no stinging.

Also who says that. Is that like when Trump says that people are saying things. When he is the only one saying anything.

[Tiste Simeon]

Democrats have started impeachment proceedings.

[Macros]

You can't just drop a bomb like that and not give us an infowars link

[Vengeance]

Macros, on 16 November 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

You can't just drop a bomb like that and not give us an infowars link

It means very little as Demo's don't control either house of Congress. But yes they did.

http://www.newsweek....resident-711525

[worry]

Man, Al Franken needs to go, and the ashes of his political career spread to the wind.

[Vengeance]

https://www.reddit.c...D93&sh=725429ba

If more women come forward then it is a pattern of behavior.

[HoosierDaddy]

worry, on 16 November 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Man, Al Franken needs to go, and the ashes of his political career spread to the wind.

I'm no hypocrite. If one has to go, they all have to go.

[worry]

This is insane: https://www.wired.co...they-should-be/

Quote

The annual stipend for a PhD student in Carnegie Mellon's school of computer science is about $32,400. The university covers the student's $43,000 tuition, in exchange for the research she conducts and the courses she teaches. Under current law, the government taxes only a student’s stipend; the waived tuition is not taken into account. But under the GOP bill, her annual taxable income would rise from $32,400 to $76,234. Even factoring in new deductions also included in the proposal, the CMU document estimates her taxes would amount to $10,209 per year—nearly four times the amount under current law. That would slash her net annual stipend by 25 percent, from $29,566 to $22,191.

...

Furthermore, a document similar to the one circulated by Carnegie Mellon's GSA is making the rounds at UC Berkeley, a public institution. That document estimates that the GOP's proposal would increase tax burdens for students at public schools by 30 to 60 percent, compared to the several-hundred-percent increase seen by private school students who pay higher tuitions.

[Nicodimas]

worry, on 16 November 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

This is insane: https://www.wired.co...they-should-be/

Quote

The annual stipend for a PhD student in Carnegie Mellon's school of computer science is about $32,400. The university covers the student's $43,000 tuition, in exchange for the research she conducts and the courses she teaches. Under current law, the government taxes only a student’s stipend; the waived tuition is not taken into account. But under the GOP bill, her annual taxable income would rise from $32,400 to $76,234. Even factoring in new deductions also included in the proposal, the CMU document estimates her taxes would amount to $10,209 per year—nearly four times the amount under current law. That would slash her net annual stipend by 25 percent, from $29,566 to $22,191.

...

Furthermore, a document similar to the one circulated by Carnegie Mellon's GSA is making the rounds at UC Berkeley, a public institution. That document estimates that the GOP's proposal would increase tax burdens for students at public schools by 30 to 60 percent, compared to the several-hundred-percent increase seen by private school students who pay higher tuitions.

Advantages:

And let’s be honest they want as few Americans being competitive at these levels, makes its for corporations probably to enlist more h1b visa memebers. Less chance for people to get jobs down the line to pay off that debt. Especially placing barriers as the above.

I could endlessly on why the costs got to this level too, been there done that..

The baby boomers not only created a huge debt load, they also totally sold out their children to be whores essentially. Millennials didn’t really have a chance...

http://www.businessi...tuition-2017-11

This is really messed up if you connect the dots...historians someday when they look at the collapse of America (debt) will point of these symptoms of a growing tide of a long collapse.

[Aptorian]

worry, on 16 November 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Man, Al Franken needs to go, and the ashes of his political career spread to the wind.

Vengeance, on 16 November 2017 - 10:40 PM, said:

https://www.reddit.c...D93&sh=725429ba

If more women come forward then it is a pattern of behavior.

H. D., on 16 November 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

worry, on 16 November 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Man, Al Franken needs to go, and the ashes of his political career spread to the wind.

I'm no hypocrite. If one has to go, they all have to go.

Should Franken be discarded this easily?

His response was swift, deeply apologetic, apparently self sacrificing and perhaps most importantly politically professional. It's also as Venegeance points out the only accusations so far.

Now, I don't follow American or Minnesotan politics close enough to have a full picture of what kind of politician he has been, but from everything I've seen or read from him, he's very gifted, very level headed and transparent guy. He appears to be a force for good in America's political landscape.

Is it worth throwing him away because of an incident 10 years ago?

I of course write this from in that reality distorting field of "But I like him, he can't be a bad guy" so I don't know.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 17 November 2017 - 04:10 AM

[worry]

It's a fair question, in terms of big picture politics at least. I like Franken fine, too, and he's particularly effective during hearings. So it hurts on more than a selfish "Dang, I really liked that guy" level.

In this case, the MN governor can appoint his replacement, and depending on the timing various rules may apply before there's a special election. And there's good people to fill his spot with the same politics and no baggage. In the most mercenary, political terms: replacing him is a 'the sooner the better' situation, since it would give his replacement name recognition, experience, and a Senate record going into an anti-Trump wave in the next election.

On a more personal note, I'm just kind of sick of letting the whole "boys will be boys" mentality slide. I recognize that while what he did was gross and sleazy, it's also on the tamer side of all the reports of assaults coming out lately, and he's a comedian, and nobody's perfect, blah blah blah. I don't want his head on a pike or anything, but this happened ten years ago, not when he was a college sophomore.

But this let-it-slide stuff has been cumulative, like generations of sleazy behavior being ignored for the sake of political pragmatism while so many people have been shut out of the process entirely. Now is as good a time as any to draw the line, even if it shuts/kicks out some politically-effective-but-borderline-behavior. The choice isn't between them and politically ineffective alternatives, but politically effective sleazes vs politically effective actually ethical people.

Anyway, I'm still processing it obviously, and I don't know the right answer for sure, but I guess what I'm getting at here is that 'losing' Franken isn't creating a total void, it's creating a space so someone else -- someone possibly better -- gets a shot.

And as a side note, I hope the floodgates open in D.C the same way they have in Hollywood. To steal someone's quote I read today on Twitter Link: "The part of this reckoning where we lose friends and allies is very real, very shitty, and very necessary."

[Primateus]

worry, on 17 November 2017 - 04:53 AM, said:

It's a fair question, in terms of big picture politics at least. I like Franken fine, too, and he's particularly effective during hearings. So it hurts on more than a selfish "Dang, I really liked that guy" level.

In this case, the MN governor can appoint his replacement, and depending on the timing various rules may apply before there's a special election. And there's good people to fill his spot with the same politics and no baggage. In the most mercenary, political terms: replacing him is a 'the sooner the better' situation, since it would give his replacement name recognition, experience, and a Senate record going into an anti-Trump wave in the next election.

On a more personal note, I'm just kind of sick of letting the whole "boys will be boys" mentality slide. I recognize that while what he did was gross and sleazy, it's also on the tamer side of all the reports of assaults coming out lately, and he's a comedian, and nobody's perfect, blah blah blah. I don't want his head on a pike or anything, but this happened ten years ago, not when he was a college sophomore.

But this let-it-slide stuff has been cumulative, like generations of sleazy behavior being ignored for the sake of political pragmatism while so many people have been shut out of the process entirely. Now is as good a time as any to draw the line, even if it shuts/kicks out some politically-effective-but-borderline-behavior. The choice isn't between them and politically ineffective alternatives, but politically effective sleazes vs politically effective actually ethical people.

Anyway, I'm still processing it obviously, and I don't know the right answer for sure, but I guess what I'm getting at here is that 'losing' Franken isn't creating a total void, it's creating a space so someone else -- someone possibly better -- gets a shot.

And as a side note, I hope the floodgates open in D.C the same way they have in Hollywood. To steal someone's quote I read today on Twitter Link: "The part of this reckoning where we lose friends and allies is very real, very shitty, and very necessary."

I do follow american politics, at least enough to realize that from the big picture politics viewpoint, you'll have to be pretty fucking damn sure that the person who Franken gets replaced with is not a "wolf in disguise". Like, and this is vastly exaggerated, I know; Goodbye Al Franken, you breast air-groping son of a bitch, what you did was TOTALLY unacceptable and you should have known better so now you're out! Oh, and here's your replacement, meet former Alabama Supreme Court Justice, Roy Moore!

But from a personal viewpoint, I agree with you completely, Worry. What he did wasn't as bad as what others have done, but yeah, he kinda have to go. And the sooner the better.

Edited for typos and such.

This post has been edited by Primateus: 17 November 2017 - 11:55 AM

[QuickTidal]

Trumps tweets about Franken, but doesn't say a peep about Roy Moore....because OF COURSE.

Also, am I the only one who thought his tweet about Franken could easily refer to his own sexual deviancy?

Ugh.

[HoosierDaddy]

Moore's wife is a fucking travesty. You want trashed? This is how.

[Tiste Simeon]

QuickTidal, on 17 November 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

Trumps tweets about Franken, but doesn't say a peep about Roy Moore....because OF COURSE.

Also, am I the only one who thought his tweet about Franken could easily refer to his own sexual deviancy?

Ugh.

Of course you're not the only one there has been a vast and savage response about it.

[HoosierDaddy]

So, Trump has basically endorsed a groomer and pedophile.

(Waiting for some weirdo to clarify it as "pederasty"! It's Different!")

Edit: Wrong word, Worry had it. Ephebophilia. Or however it is spelled.

This post has been edited by H. D.: 21 November 2017 - 10:11 PM