[amphibian]

 Apt, on 03 February 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

Now, assuming this isn't a doctored photo, this picture basically encapsulates what I most hate about career politicians. I feel like if a politician is caught having this big of a swing from A to B in terms of political beliefs and values, then they need to be excluded from a public office. It completely undermines anything else you're going to hear from them from then on in and it furthers the mistrust and confusion the general public harbors for politics in general.

How can you tweet that you find a Muslim ban offensive and unconstitutional 14 months earlier and then spearhead that same movement a little over a year later? I get that real politics is the art of compromise but at some point you sell your fucking soul.

The reason this doesn't matter is because the supporters of Pence see that it's a lie, then assume everyone else lies that baldly. This assumption that "they all lie like this" allows them to continue supporting Pence/the liar and not have to change their worldview or those who they support.

When shown that other people do not in fact lie that baldly or reverse their positions to something so horrible that quickly, the supporters will go to great lengths to ignore or minimize this. They will not admit that this is wrong and that "their guy" is a crook worse than what they fear others are.

[Tiste Simeon]

Just to quickly add one plus... I don't believe Pence would launch a nuke because someone was mean to him on Twitter.

I can't quite say that about Trump...

[Macros]

A few things I have seen and I'm curious about.
For example, how accurate they are.

There's a lot going around at the minute regarding this immigration ban.

The biggest note I've seen on it being that of the 7 countries on the list, there have been no terrorists caught, or convicted (forget the exact wording) that have killed any Americans in America.
Yet the countries where the 9/11 attackers came from (Egypt, saudi, UAE?) Are not in the list.
Convenient, given Trump has hotels and business interests in those countries.

Is this the usual internet media gloss over of facts, or remotely accurate. If accurate why hasn't he been torn apart in the senate for it?

[HoosierDaddy]

Accurate.

He has been by most Dems; his party doesn't care.

[MTS]

 Vengeance, on 03 February 2017 - 02:47 PM, said:

 Apt, on 03 February 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

 MTS, on 03 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

 Primateus, on 03 February 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

White House turns off recording.

I don't know if this is true or not. If true, I don't know if it's been done during previous administrations, but it seems interesting that the Trump administration would do this amidst allegations of undue Russian influence.

Nixon was supposed to have erased some of the recordings surrounding the Watergate scandal, so it doesn't surprise me at all.

Unless you are arguing that Trump is possessed by the ghost of Richard Nixon I don't understand how this is connected.

It implies that you have something to hide. I actually thought that after watergate it was law that all phone calls had to be recorded.

This is exactly what I was trying to get across. Presidents have the power to meddle with the recording system, as Nixon proved, so that Trump is able (and willing) to do so doesn't surprise me in the least.

As far as the bans go, it also costs nothing politically to target those ones in particular - of the seven banned, five are barely functioning (Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Libya) and there's nothing lost in demonising 'rogue-state' Iran.

If you're really gonna target countries that have exported terrorists (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Lebanon, Pakistan), then that hurts America in a whole host of ways that are disastrous politically (e.g. petrol prices, security co-operation for wars in Iraq/Syria/Afghanistan, increased threat of home-grown terror etc.).

[worry]

Apparently war criminal and Iran-Contra participant Elliott Abrams is the top choice for Deputy Secretary of State. https://twitter.com/...707725287190533

This guy has a body count: https://www.thenatio...nking-diplomat/

[MTS]

So, new sanctions on Iran, Republicans are getting feisty on SCOTUS nomination, and surprise! Trump hasn't fully divested himself from his businesses. Who'da thunk it?

https://www.theguard...ashington-hotel

[worry]

Also Trump wants to turn megachurches into PACs: https://www.nytimes....y-churches.html

[Mezla PigDog]

It's interesting how Trump is attacking the judiciary for overturning his travel ban. It is similar to the British judges being attacked by the press simply for doing what our constitution (albeit unwritten) says for Brexit. On the one hand the sense handed down by the judicial system is heartening but on the other it gives me a little shudder when you think how the people who vote a certain way will interpret it as "the elites" thwarting the will of the people. How many of them will sit down and think "oh well actually we have rules for a reason" and how many will think it is ridiculous that the administration they voted in can't actually do what it wants. I flip flop between thinking that the average man on the street has a lot more sense than you think versus the fact that it feels we've been dumbed down by sensationalist lying gutter media to have no sense at all anymore. I have this impending sense of doom that things need to get a lot worse before the majority get a hard enough slap in the face to snap out of it. Alternatively is our generation really that special and maybe it is the relative stability that came before that was the blip. The sensible part of me thinks that in 10 years we will be looking back and laughing at how silly we were all being. The rest of me feels like those of us left will be speaking Russian or Chinese.

Anyhoo I can see Trump finding a nice exit for himself if he comes up against the constitution and it won't budge. He'll quit just before he can be impeached for profiting from his position and then blame "the system" and "the media" for preventing his sensible policies.

[Nicodimas]

Wow honesty..like how can't anyoke just acknowledge the lack of innocence we have all in this.

http://www.zerohedge...try-so-innocent

It will be interesting to see if Trump can patch up Russia relations, I'm not saying trust them implicitly, but a nudge in the right direction. The easiest way to establish peace is through capitalism. Everyone likes coming out with their pockets lined and little less to worry about....

[Mezla PigDog]

Trump doesn't understand how dangerous Putin is because he's too fucking stupid. I think I would prefer willful ambition to demagoguery because I feel he wouldn't succeed. He is just a moron and it's frightening to think how big the crater will be when he blows.

If he survives it will disprove the conspiracy theory that the CIA assassinated JFK over the Cuban missile crisis, right?

[Mentalist]

 Nicodimas, on 05 February 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

Wow honesty..like how can't anyoke just acknowledge the lack of innocence we have all in this.

http://www.zerohedge...try-so-innocent

It will be interesting to see if Trump can patch up Russia relations, I'm not saying trust them implicitly, but a nudge in the right direction. The easiest way to establish peace is through capitalism. Everyone likes coming out with their pockets lined and little less to worry about....

Yes, let's patch up relations with the only country to annex a piece of another sovereign country in the past 50 years, and say that they were just misunderstood. I'm sure nothing at all can go wrong with that. Peace for our generation and all that fun stuff.

[worry]

Slowly but surely, I think the country's catching up to the fact that when someone describes his or herself as a capital-C 'Capitalist' they probably shouldn't be trusted. If the fountain of youth -- hell, if Viagra was made from people -- not a one of these infinity-old billionaires would hesitate to snap your head off like a Pez dispenser and gorge themselves. Capitalism (at least as these kleptocrat monsters would have it) is to peace what leukemia is to bone marrow.

[EmperorMagus]

 Mentalist, on 05 February 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

 Nicodimas, on 05 February 2017 - 06:34 PM, said:

Wow honesty..like how can't anyoke just acknowledge the lack of innocence we have all in this.

http://www.zerohedge...try-so-innocent

It will be interesting to see if Trump can patch up Russia relations, I'm not saying trust them implicitly, but a nudge in the right direction. The easiest way to establish peace is through capitalism. Everyone likes coming out with their pockets lined and little less to worry about....

Yes, let's patch up relations with the only country to annex a piece of another sovereign country in the past 50 years, and say that they were just misunderstood. I'm sure nothing at all can go wrong with that. Peace for our generation and all that fun stuff.

Yeah, let's trust Putin. He's TOTALLY not going to do it again.

[Mezla PigDog]

Did any Brits sign the online petition to cancel Trumps state visit? I couldn't bring myself to sign because of the wording that it would be too embarrassing for the queen. I don't really care if the queen has an awkward couple of days at work. I can't work out if that means I have my priorities mixed up. If only it had simply said that we can't let our traditional pomp and circumstance be used to lend legitimacy to a bigoted wannabe tyrant. It would be a tad hypocritical of us as a country because we did whore Queenie out to the Chinese president in the name of trade deals a while back.

[HoosierDaddy]

If you ever wanted to know what lawyering in court is really like: MSNBC is broadcasting this case live right now.

[HoosierDaddy]

To the Supreme Court we go. It'll be 2-1 against the Travel Ban.

Edit: If the 9th doesn't block this then this country is fucked.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 08 February 2017 - 12:16 AM

[worry]

I listened to it on Youtube. At least from the tail end of Flentje's portion through to the end. To be honest, I never knew at this level that the panel of judges was so directly challenging; it's just like mini-SCOTUS.

I kinda feel bad for Flentje, since he was such a late-stage stand-in and it showed. (https://www.bloomber...vel-ban-hearing)

Purcell did a very good job under some pretty tough questioning. Can't say I understood a lot of it, but that's how it seemed to me. Flentje avoided answering several questions -- not necessarily his fault given the dogbarf nature of the EO, but not likely to impress the judges -- but Purcell was on point the whole time.

[HoosierDaddy]

 death rattle, on 08 February 2017 - 12:22 AM, said:

I listened to it on Youtube. At least from the tail end of Flentje's portion through to the end. To be honest, I never knew at this level that the panel of judges was so directly challenging; it's just like mini-SCOTUS.

I kinda feel bad for Flentje, since he was such a late-stage stand-in and it showed. (https://www.bloomber...vel-ban-hearing)

Purcell did a very good job under some pretty tough questioning. Can't say I understood a lot of it, but that's how it seemed to me. Flentje avoided answering several questions -- not necessarily his fault given the dogbarf nature of the EO, but not likely to impress the judges -- but Purcell was on point the whole time.

To be fair, that is appellate judiciary. They are there to completely challenge why they have to deal with the bullshit in front of them. Regular court is slightly less abusive. But, any law student deals with both types to get ready for real law. It's intimidating at shit getting in front of these people and arguing while they whale away at your arguments.

[worry]

Intimidating is exactly the word that came to mind. But listening was thrilling.

On another note, after Trump's disastrous, murderous screwup in Yemen, Yemen has officially barred US anti-terror ground missions in the country.
https://www.nytimes....d=tw-share&_r=0

DJT is a moron and his foreign policy is already failing.