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The USA Politics Thread

#1561 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:02 AM

 Nicodimas, on 14 August 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Even if your were the biggest obama fan..you gotta be pretty disappointed..maybe the veil was lifted? ?

It would be interesting if Saudi Arabia revolts, we take two different sides <syria/saud> on different conflicts.

Republicans are easily taking office after this adminstartion without a doubt. They can pretty much put whoever in too! USA! USA!
everyone knows it too. Im hoping we get the most right winger bastard that completely goes all the way with the agenda.

This administration is a disaster.


The numbers hardly agree with you there. They will in all likelihood win the mid-term ellection, but demographically they'll struggle come the next presidential election.

I'd be curious though as to whom you reckon the Republicans will chose as their presidential candidate?
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#1562 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:37 PM

Nic, it seems you have yet to figure out that not everyone sees the world (or the president) like you do. Sure, there are plenty of nuts out there who think Obama is the root of all evil, but fortunately they're a minority.

As for who will win the GOP nomination, there are a few options, but the frontrunners are Chris Christie, Marco Rubio, and Rand Paul. I can't think of any female contenders this time. But if Hillary gets the Dem nomination, I'll be tempted to stay home, and not because she's a woman. (In the end I will probably go vote against the other guy, but I seriously hope we can find someone better.) Sarah Palin might be planning on running against Hillary, in which case I would be there with bells on.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1563 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 07:53 PM

Quote

Sure, there are plenty of nuts out there who think Obama is the root of all evil,


Your putting word's in my mouth..I never claimed that. All I am saying is there is no way any left winger should side with how this administration has gone about this. It's clear this agenda he is pushing is someone elses...I just can not envision anyone liking the way business/leadership is being handled.

I think the Democrats lose on that alone..where is the nation headed? Not anywhere better <see deficient 1 trillion to 2.5 trillionish> Well time to flip the coin and see what the republicans can do. I have stated many times, I think the failure of our system is two party politics. Well thats a simple way of looking at it..actually we could break down the agendas the two side support all day. We the people should start carrying more about these agendas and more about the ones that favor the everyday man..not the .001%.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 14 August 2013 - 07:55 PM

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#1564 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 08:20 PM

 Nicodimas, on 14 August 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Quote

Sure, there are plenty of nuts out there who think Obama is the root of all evil,


Your [sic] putting word's [sic] in my mouth.

No, I'm not; it's called hyperbole. (And obvious hyperbole at that.)

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1565 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:01 AM

It interesting we took sides with Al Qaeda on the civil war in Syria to support a gas/oil line from the sauds to Europe to relieve pressure from Gazprom <russia>.

Weird what decade makes. 100k dead though for the Sauds to make money. Take power from russia.

And I'm the crazy one on this forum. Yeah right...most people are just out of touch with how it works. or ignore. or don't care. or just can't rationalize that this happened.

Actually Bush woulda have made the same decision.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 01 September 2013 - 08:02 AM

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#1566 User is offline   Primateus 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:22 AM

I seriously doubt that your republican party is going to do well again if they don't get their act together on immigration reform...Aren't all the expert pretty much agreed that in its current incarnation it would be very bad for the GOP if white america becomes a minority?

Oh, and you're talking about Syria, yes? Nicodimas?
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#1567 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 09:16 AM

 Primateus, on 01 September 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I seriously doubt that your republican party is going to do well again if they don't get their act together on immigration reform...Aren't all the expert pretty much agreed that in its current incarnation it would be very bad for the GOP if white america becomes a minority?

Immigration reform is part of why minority-white America would be bad for the GOP, but certainly not all of it. Immigration reform was simply one opportunity of many for the GOP to improve its image in that regard, but of course they've botched it. The GOP voter-suppression crusade is another reason why they suffer with minorities, but mostly it's just the rhetoric you hear from GOP politicians—that dog-whistling racist crap that they've been spouting since the Southern Strategy became GOP policy in the late 60s and early 70s. For example, the implication that African-Americans are particularly prone to crime and the dole (not because of ongoing discrimination and oppression, but because they are morally inferior people). That angle has gotten particularly ugly during the Obama years; many Republicans really see the White House as just another form of government housing for black people with the Obamas living there. Every vacation they take or free meal they get is somehow different from that of previous first families. You see that kind of lingering racism in many forms: mock lynchings, ape-like depictions of Obama, the persistent belief that he is a secret Muslim (a la Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam, I guess), the paranoia that he is trying to turn us into a welfare nation, etc.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1568 User is offline   D'iversify 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 01:06 PM

 Nicodimas, on 01 September 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

It interesting we took sides with Al Qaeda on the civil war in Syria to support a gas/oil line from the sauds to Europe to relieve pressure from Gazprom <russia>.

Weird what decade makes. 100k dead though for the Sauds to make money. Take power from russia.

And I'm the crazy one on this forum. Yeah right...most people are just out of touch with how it works. or ignore. or don't care. or just can't rationalize that this happened.

Actually Bush woulda have made the same decision.
Yes, because the situation in Syria is that simple...

I mean, yes, there's definitely still the hangover from the Cold War era desire to rollback Russian influence playing a part. Yes, the Saudis are bankrolling the rebels (though if you look at the details, there's quite a bit of conflict between them and the other major backers, Qatar, who favour different factions). At the same time, I think Obama's (in)action on Syria is very different to what Bush was doing in the Middle East. There was no civil war in Iraq when Bush launched his 'Coalition of the Willing'. The US instigated that conflict. Much as America had funded opposition to Assad prior to hostilities breaking out, the impetus has been indigenous. And yes, Islamist fighters have streamed onto the battlefield. But they still form a small minority of opposition forces, indeed are in conflict with significant (and larger) sections of the FSA. The nature of any civil war in a region where there are major geopolitical interests and ethno-political and/or religious differences is that it will quickly become a proxy war for such factions. This is what has unfortunately occurred in Syria. I will happily stand with the claim that the US, Europe, Saudis etc. have played a role in provoking the conflict. But then so have Russia, Iran, Hezbollah, etc. And neither side has manufactured the conflict out of thin air. They have rather drawn upon the fact that there are major societal divisions in Syria and significant political and economic problems which led to the crisis. Obama was not, in my view, interested in such a crisis developing. Rather, long-term US geopolitical interests in the region that date to the early days of the Cold War have forced him to be interested. It has been Obama's interest to maintain good relations with Russia and China, as well as to downgrade the threat of conflict with Iran. These major political objectives have been endangered by this crisis. However, he has been pushed to act as if he does not the US risks endangering its interests in the region and being embarrassed on the world stage, and that is a greater political poison than taking military action - remember Carter and Iran? So the narrative that the current administration has consciously engineered this crisis and desired intervention from the first is nonsense, not least given that Obama has had plenty of time to make such a move before this latest escalation. I think the administration will reluctantly go ahead with strikes. I'm not sure of the long-term effects, but I doubt there will be a clear outweighing of negatives by positives. I think the administration understands this - it is not, like the Bush administration, overly optimistic about the situation. I'd say that Obama's hand will be forced by the weight of history and the rules of the game of geopolitical power in spite of the fact that I do not think his heart is really in it (not to say this is true of the entire administration - Kerry is quite obviously a hawk on this matter).
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#1569 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

Sorry if I jumped the ship a little as felt like this part of geopolitics is super important and game chaining.

I did overly simplify this situation as this is obviously geopolitics and has been building. If we really went back this is Remnants of history of the the last one hundred years, the last decade for sure has caused nothing, but strife.

It is interesting to see if Russia really takes a hardline stance and doesn't back down. Keep streaming weapons into those regions..What is the US gonna do just reach out and strike those regions? Troops would be on the ground soon after...

This is the start of a world war..it will escalate, it might not be how you envision it either..but a bogged down long lasting campaign, maybe history will redefine it after saying this all started under the Bush Campaign in the aftermath.

We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran” — - Wesley Clark--2007

Here is the complicated map for D'iversity, on the situation-->


Posted Image

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 01 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

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#1570 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 05:57 PM

 Nicodimas, on 01 September 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Sorry if I jumped the ship a little as felt like this part of geopolitics is super important and game chaining.

I did overly simplify this situation as this is obviously geopolitics and has been building. If we really went back this is Remnants of history of the the last one hundred years, the last decade for sure has caused nothing, but strife.

It is interesting to see if Russia really takes a hardline stance and doesn't back down. Keep streaming weapons into those regions..What is the US gonna do just reach out and strike those regions? Troops would be on the ground soon after...

This is the start of a world war..it will escalate, it might not be how you envision it either..but a bogged down long lasting campaign, maybe history will redefine it after saying this all started under the Bush Campaign in the aftermath.

Quote

We’re going to take out seven countries in 5 years, starting with Iraq, and then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and, finishing off, Iran
” — - Wesley Clark--2007

Here is the complicated map for D'iversity, on the situation-->


Posted Image



Of course everyone could back off and let this just flow naturally, but I think we know thats not happening.

Quote

The American way of life is not negotiable."
-Cheney.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 01 September 2013 - 06:59 PM

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#1571 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:06 PM

Cool article-->
http://www.zerohedge...tates-and-syria
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#1572 User is offline   Gnaw 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 07:57 PM

Where'd you source the map?

Edit: If you're going to quote Cheney it might be more interesting to dig out the one explaining why we need to invade Syria. U.S. News and World Report iirc. ~5 months after the Iraq invasion.

This post has been edited by Gnaw: 01 September 2013 - 07:59 PM

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#1573 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:06 PM

I love the Wesley Clark quote. "-2007."

We are still in Iraq from 2003.

Ha. Hahahahaha.

Ok.

The map is missing more question marks, btw.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#1574 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:08 PM

 Gnaw, on 01 September 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

Where'd you source the map?

Edit: If you're going to quote Cheney it might be more interesting to dig out the one explaining why we need to invade Syria. U.S. News and World Report iirc. ~5 months after the Iraq invasion.


Cheney would invade Massachusetts and California if he could. Do some "regime changing."
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#1575 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 08:27 PM

He's trying to invade Wyoming right now. (Again.)

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1576 User is offline   Terez 

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 12:52 PM

Don't know if you guys are following the Christie bridge story. For the really out-of-the-loop folks, Chris Christie, governor of New Jersey and contender for the GOP nomination in 2016, is in political trouble because it is suspected he is behind a fake traffic study in which 2 of Fort Lee's 3 access lanes to the George Washington Bridge to NYC were closed for four days this past September (the week of 9/11), causing serious traffic congestion, and now emails have been released showing that Christie's deputy chief of staff (Bridget Kelly) ordered it, that it had been discussed by all involved before she ordered it, and that several Christie appointees thought the whole thing was hilarious.

I am following the story mostly because the details don't really make a lot of sense, and I love mysteries. Clearly, from the documents released so far, the lane closures were ordered from Christie's office for political reasons rather than the reasons stated in public, which makes a bona fide scandal. It's the why that doesn't make sense. Heavy traffic seems to be a weird way to punish someone you don't like, whether it's the mayor of Fort Lee or Loretta Weinberg (state rep for that district) as Maddow plausibly theorized earlier this week.

I think that Steve Kornacki is sniffing in the right place. The short version: there is a billion-dollar redevelopment project in the works in Fort Lee, basically right at the foot of Fort Lee's GWB access lanes, which includes luxury apartments and parking for carpoolers and the like. The access lanes were a major part of what made that property sought-after, and there is some history to the property that Kornacki goes into in his segment. At the time the lane closures happened, financing for the project had not yet been secured, and was not until after the lanes were repoened. Since the access lanes are a major selling point for the project, it's probably safe to assume that the investors were nervous during the "traffic study", especially considering the rumors that it might be permanent. Uncertainty is the bane of fundraising for projects like this.

Bridget Kelly gave the order for "traffic problems in Fort Lee" about a month before the lane closures actually happened, and according to the documents provided by David Wildstein (the Port Authority guy who was ordered to orchestrate the closures), Christie had a meeting with PA chairman David Samson just before Kelly gave Wildstein that order. Since Wildstein is pleading the 5th, we don't know why he provided that particular document, but as the subpoena only called for documents related to the lane closures, it's probably safe to assume that the Christie/Samson meeting was germane. Everything that was not germane was redacted by Wildstein or his lawyers.

In December, before anything incriminating had been released, Christie tried to blow off the questions about the incident in press conferences, but he couldn't help mentioning that he couldn't understand why Fort Lee had three "dedicated lanes" to the GWB. It's a ridiculous thing to say because those lanes are used by over 50 communities in the commute to NYC, but he said it, and he said that he was considering making it permanent, and that he had discussed exactly that with chairman Samson. In fact, the "traffic study" was ostensibly a test to see if closing the lanes would ease traffic on the bridge itself by taking pressure off the other feed lanes, and if it did, then perhaps making the closures permanent would be a good idea. For residents of the area, the idea seems ridiculous, and considering what we know now, it probably is ridiculous. But Christie was quite serious about it, and another PA appointee, Bill Baroni, made comments along the same lines when he was questioned about the incident. When the NY side of the Port Authority moved to end the lane closures, Wildstein wrote that Samson was helping them to "retaliate". It was rumored that Christie made a personal call to NY governor Andrew Cuomo, but Cuomo denied it in public.

Since it makes little sense to punish your enemies with traffic problems, I think it's a fairly safe bet at this point that this redevelopment project was the main target of Christie's game. One could argue he had nothing to do with it, that his staff acted independently, but it's looking very unlikely at this point. Steve Kornacki, who worked for Wildstein at one point and knows Bridget Kelly fairly well, doesn't think she would have hatched this little plan on her own; it isn't her style. And of course, Wildstein's lawyer basically told the committee questioning them that Wildstein would sing a pretty tune if he were to be granted immunity from prosecution by the relevant authorities. It's only a matter of time before the truth comes out, but at this point I think it's a question of what Christie's stake was in seeing this project suffer. It's a better way than traffic to punish the mayor and the aforementioned state rep Loretta Weinberg, if that was the goal, but you would think that Christie would want any billion-dollar project in his state to succeed. But he deliberately threw a wrench in it—whether he ordered the lane closures or not—since he seemed to get a kick out of threatening to make it permanent.

The President (2012) said:

Please proceed, Governor.

Chris Christie (2016) said:

There it is.

Elizabeth Warren (2020) said:

And no, I’m not talking about Donald Trump. I’m talking about Mayor Bloomberg.
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#1577 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:51 AM

http://www.cnn.com/v...Fwww.cnn.com%2F

NY Senator threatening to throw a reporter off a balcony if he dares to ask him about a campaign finance investigation the guy is going through. Ignore the 'I'll break you like a child' comment, and it is almost hilarious.
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#1578 User is offline   HoosierDaddy 

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:35 PM

American Politics is quickly becoming the WWF. Not the WWE, mind, but old school with the Commies and Muslims still as obviously ridiculous over the top caricatures.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
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#1579 User is offline   Stormcat 

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:42 PM

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 30 January 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

http://www.cnn.com/v...Fwww.cnn.com%2F

NY Senator threatening to throw a reporter off a balcony if he dares to ask him about a campaign finance investigation the guy is going through. Ignore the 'I'll break you like a child' comment, and it is almost hilarious.


That reporter looked terrified when he came back.
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#1580 User is offline   Vengeance 

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 01:25 PM

 Stormcat, on 30 January 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

 Possibly Brent Weeks, on 30 January 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

http://www.cnn.com/v...Fwww.cnn.com%2F

NY Senator threatening to throw a reporter off a balcony if he dares to ask him about a campaign finance investigation the guy is going through. Ignore the 'I'll break you like a child' comment, and it is almost hilarious.


That reporter looked terrified when he came back.


I would have egged the congressman on and tried to have gotten him to hit me. Think of that story. Congressman assaults reporter for asking a question and gets arrested and then sued. Getting reprimanded by congress would be the least of his worries. If he doesn't want a reporter to ask questions he should do interviews or not be a scum bag.

This post has been edited by Vengeance: 31 January 2014 - 01:26 PM

How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
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