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The USA Politics Thread

#11021 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 03:07 PM

View Postamphibian, on 19 September 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

Calling Ginsburg the heart is an absolute mangling of what she actually did as justice. She was on the good side of some important decisions, but her best friend on the court was Scalia. That says a lot.


Aye, she absolutely wasn't the most liberal justice, nor was she particularly forward thinking on a number of subjects. She was one of the justices that tended to not side with corporations or the government against the actual people. That's not heart, that's actually doing your job.
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#11022 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 03:44 PM

If one sits down and goes through her writings and speeches and who was her law clerks, one will realize she wasn't that liberal and that Kagan, Sotomayor, and Breyer are to her left for most of their positions on the same or similar cases. And that she had some real stinkers for positions or decisions in there too.

She had a catchy name and she was a very active judge on the bench during arguments. She deserves a lot of attention for what she did, who she was in the context of the time period, and so on, but hagiography like the "heart" line changes her from who she was to someone she never was or really claimed to be.

I got to see her for a day on the bench (along with the eight others) in 2010 when I attended the Supreme Court for oral arguments. That was cool.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 19 September 2020 - 03:48 PM

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#11023 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 08:54 PM

Here’s Collins statement on it...note how carefully worded this is.

This is Kavanaugh all over again, she will vote to confirm whoever Mconnell and Trump put in front of her...spineless fucking bitch.


This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 September 2020 - 08:56 PM

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#11024 User is online   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 09:09 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 September 2020 - 08:54 PM, said:

Here's Collins statement on it...note how carefully worded this is.

This is Kavanaugh all over again, she will vote to confirm whoever Mconnell and Trump put in front of her...spineless fucking bitch.




Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems like she's clearly affirming that:

1. the vote should be delayed until after the election

2. the nominee voted on should be selected by the winner of the election.

She's hardly admirable, but this seems like good news.

Two more still needed....
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#11025 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 09:21 PM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 19 September 2020 - 09:09 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 September 2020 - 08:54 PM, said:

Here's Collins statement on it...note how carefully worded this is.

This is Kavanaugh all over again, she will vote to confirm whoever Mconnell and Trump put in front of her...spineless fucking bitch.




Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems like she's clearly affirming that:

1. the vote should be delayed until after the election

2. the nominee voted on should be selected by the winner of the election.

She's hardly admirable, but this seems like good news.

Two more still needed....


This is who she is. She talks a good game about being fair and then votes with the rank and file GOP every time.

Voted to acquit trump and voted Kavanaugh on the SCOTUS after wringing her hands and pretending she was really going to go against the rest of them....

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 September 2020 - 09:22 PM

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#11026 User is online   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 09:57 PM

'Lindsey Graham, who's also up for reelection, is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He told the Atlantic in 2018 that "if an opening comes in the last year of President Trump's term, and the primary process has started, we'll wait to the next election"—and then added, "hold the tape." Here's the tape.

Colorado Sen. Cory Gardner is up for reelection in Colorado, which is now a lean-blue state. His career may be over already. It will certainly be over if he votes to confirm a new justice before the election. Sen. Martha McSally is trailing in her race in Arizona. North Carolina Sen. Thom Tillis is narrowly trailing in his. Iowa Sen. Joni Ernst is an a tight race, while Texas Sen. John Cornyn, Montana Sen. Steve Daines, Georgia Sen. David Perdue, and, well, Kentucky Sen. Mitch McConnell all have races they can't sleep on. For some of them, it might be useful to enthusiastically activate their state's Republicans despite the ferocious backlash from Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters. For others it won't. They'll all have to figure that out immediately.

[...] What McConnell's statement does not say is when "President Trump's nominee will receive a vote on the floor of the United States Senate." He left himself room, in other words, to hold the confirmation in the lame-duck session. If Trump wins reelection, that's the ballgame anyway. If Biden wins? Lame-duck senators won't be accountable anymore.'

https://slate.com/ne...ml?via=taps_top


'The Top Contender for RBG's Seat Has a Fundamentally Cruel Vision of the Law

[...]

Faced with two plausible readings of a law, fact, or precedent, Barrett always seems to choose the harsher, stingier interpretation. [...] "Should they protect refugees denied asylum on the basis of xenophobic prejudice? Barrett said no. Should they shield prisoners from unjustified violence by correctional officers? Barrett said no. Should minors be allowed to terminate a pregnancy without telling their parents if a judge has found that they're mature enough to make the decision? Barrett said no. Should women be permitted to obtain an abortion upon discovering a severe fetal abnormality? Barrett said no."

[...] there is no doubt that Barrett would dramatically expand the Second Amendment, invalidating gun control measures around the country. It's quite possible, perhaps even likely, that within a year of her confirmation, Americans will be forbidden from terminating a pregnancy in 21 states—but permitted to purchase assault weapons and carry firearms in public in every state.

Abortion and guns, however, are just the beginning. Barrett's confirmation would heighten the odds that the Supreme Court will eradicate the entire Affordable Care Act in 2021, stripping health insurance from more than 20 million people.

[...] All available data indicates that people will die as a result of such a ruling.

[...] The current conservative justices have already telegraphed their desire to invalidate federal statutes that direct executive agencies to limit pollution, guard against labor exploitation, monitor Wall Street, and protect consumers from predatory practices. Barrett's confirmation would be a catastrophe for the climate: She may well overrule the landmark 5–4 decision, long despised by conservatives, that compels the federal government to regulate carbon emissions. Even if Congress passes new legislation to curb greenhouse gas emissions, the court's conservative supermajority may strike it down, much as the Republican-appointed justices blocked the Clean Power Plan in 2016.

Many more precedents that have become ingrained in the fabric of American life would be thrown into peril upon Barrett's confirmation. Affirmative action. Miranda rights. Marriage equality. DACA. Independent agencies. What remains of the Voting Rights Act.'

https://slate.com/ne...tus-future.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 19 September 2020 - 09:58 PM

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#11027 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 10:10 PM

ACA is done already.

It goes before scotus the week after the election. The lower court ruling kills ACA. With RBG gone, even of Roberts votes to uphold it, that’s 4-4...in the event of a tie, the lower court ruling stands.

The only way it’s saved is if McConnell fails to replace her, Biden wins in nov and Roberts agrees to hold it over...

So yeah...probably done.
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#11028 User is online   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 10:21 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 September 2020 - 10:10 PM, said:

ACA is done already.

It goes before scotus the week after the election. The lower court ruling kills ACA. With RBG gone, even of Roberts votes to uphold it, that's 4-4...in the event of a tie, the lower court ruling stands.

The only way it's saved is if McConnell fails to replace her, Biden wins in nov and Roberts agrees to hold it over...

So yeah...probably done.


'However, some of the legal experts I spoke with believe the lawsuit will still be heard in November and Obamacare ultimately upheld even without Ginsburg on the bench.

Why? As Bagley put it: “This lawsuit is profoundly dumb, and that matters a lot.”

That is not a partisan position either. Jonathan Adler, a libertarian law professor at Case Western Reserve University, told me in 2018 he thought the Republican states’ argument was “absurd.”

The case turns on the complicated legal concept of “severability”: If one provision in a law is invalidated by a court, can the rest of it stand without it? Texas is arguing that the individual mandate is so central to Obamacare that if it is unconstitutional, then the rest of the law is too.

Courts usually decide that question by looking at Congress’s intent — and that’s where the conservative case falls apart.

It is actually quite simple, legal scholars say: Congress passed a law, the tax legislation, repealing the individual mandate and leaving the insurance protections in place. So, clearly, Congress intended in the tax bill to eliminate the mandate penalty while keeping the ACA’s insurance reforms. That is exactly what the tax law they just passed does.

Adler told me Friday night that he thought there were still five or six votes on the Supreme Court who would rule that even if the mandate is now unconstitutional, the rest of the law is severable from it and should therefore be upheld. Justice Brett Kavanaugh is believed to be sympathetic to that argument, based on some recent decisions, though that remains to be seen.

Nevertheless, Adler said, a new vacancy on the Supreme Court “shouldn’t affect the outcome” of the ACA case.'

https://www.vox.com/...-obamacare-case
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#11029 User is offline   Gwynn ap Nudd 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 11:03 PM

Meh, Collins may well vote against, as long as her vote doesn't matter. If Mitch already has 50 or more votes from other Republican senators, she may vote no.

On the ACA case, my understanding is Roberts, Alito and Kavanaugh are all proponents of severability, and unlikely to take the entire law down.
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#11030 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 11:51 PM

I did the only thing I can do today. Donated to 12 different senate candidates.
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#11031 User is online   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:11 AM

'Lindsey Graham Goes Back on His Word, Vows to Vote for Ginsburg Replacement Before Election'

https://slate.com/ne...seat-trump.html
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#11032 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:22 AM

I maintain, whatever the Russians discovered about Graham that made him heel turn on trump so hard into bootlicker must be really bad, and probably illegal...

Otherwise, Graham is easily the one I assumed would change his tune on this and be the hypocrite he is. He’s a sycophant for trump and power...

That said, I heard he’s at risk of losing his seat?
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#11033 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:32 AM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 20 September 2020 - 12:11 AM, said:

'Lindsey Graham Goes Back on His Word, Vows to Vote for Ginsburg Replacement Before Election'

https://slate.com/ne...seat-trump.html


You can’t see it cause we’re on the inter webs....but this is my shocked face.....


Spoiler alert: I’m not shocked.
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#11034 User is offline   Slow Ben 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:33 AM

View PostQuickTidal, on 20 September 2020 - 12:22 AM, said:

I maintain, whatever the Russians discovered about Graham that made him heel turn on trump so hard into bootlicker must be really bad, and probably illegal...

Otherwise, Graham is easily the one I assumed would change his tune on this and be the hypocrite he is. He’s a sycophant for trump and power...

That said, I heard he’s at risk of losing his seat?


Latest polling has it 48/48. It’s been close for a while.

I definitely donated to Jaime Harrison.
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#11035 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 12:45 AM

Delaying the vote until December doesn't do anything because this current Congress meets until January and Trump plus Pence stay in until January.

We're fucked, but maybe we can put more Justices on the court if the Democrats get the Senate.
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#11036 User is offline   Obdigore 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 02:55 AM

View Postamphibian, on 20 September 2020 - 12:45 AM, said:

Delaying the vote until December doesn't do anything because this current Congress meets until January and Trump plus Pence stay in until January.

We're fucked, but maybe we can put more Justices on the court if the Democrats get the Senate.


If they take the senate and the presidency, yes it's time to pack SCOTUS and set term limits on judges so, for instance, the longest serving judge is replaced every 2 years or so. If the court is up to 13 or 15, thats still 26-30 year terms, which is still very long.
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#11037 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 03:12 AM

2 years is likely a nonstarter. I have a piece of federal litigation that has been going on for 2 years and I'm just at the district court level.

Probably 10 years or 15 years is a better setup, but it's still likely to be life terms.
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#11038 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 01:15 PM

View PostObdigore, on 19 September 2020 - 03:07 PM, said:

View Postamphibian, on 19 September 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

Calling Ginsburg the heart is an absolute mangling of what she actually did as justice. She was on the good side of some important decisions, but her best friend on the court was Scalia. That says a lot.


Aye, she absolutely wasn't the most liberal justice, nor was she particularly forward thinking on a number of subjects. She was one of the justices that tended to not side with corporations or the government against the actual people. That's not heart, that's actually doing your job.


Maybe not, but just because she may not have been the most liberal doesn't mean she didn't have a heart. Please do not equate the left or progressive side of things with having a monopoly on "heart". In my experience, people who clearly identify as one direction or the other politically or economically generally care more about their ideology than actual people. That's left to more centrist types who can look at both sides and see the good and bad in each.

Anyhoo, saw this and thought:

"1. Wow, what an especially shit week in an especially shit year," and
"2. Dear God, not again."

https://www.news.com...87092d2cfaafa38

FFS anyone who doesn't have their tongue rammed firmly up Trump's butthole needs to get out and vote Biden. Even if you think Joe is a daffy old twit who probably won't even get to the end of his victory speech - just vote for him. Because as we have seen the alternative is 4 more years of Trump, and the world cannot handle that. KH cannot be as bad as Trump et al.
Last time round, people who voted Trump had a sort-of excuse as he was a complete dick but politically he was site unseen, and Hilary left a lot of people cold. Now there is no such excuse. If you vote for Trump over Biden, may whatever supreme being or Force you believe in have mercy on your soul. Hell, if you can vote but decide not to - you're just as bad. If you have the ability to vote, you must. It's as simple as that.

EDIT: apologies for the rant.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 20 September 2020 - 07:42 PM

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#11039 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 20 September 2020 - 10:52 PM

View PostTsundoku, on 20 September 2020 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostObdigore, on 19 September 2020 - 03:07 PM, said:

View Postamphibian, on 19 September 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

Calling Ginsburg the heart is an absolute mangling of what she actually did as justice. She was on the good side of some important decisions, but her best friend on the court was Scalia. That says a lot.


Aye, she absolutely wasn't the most liberal justice, nor was she particularly forward thinking on a number of subjects. She was one of the justices that tended to not side with corporations or the government against the actual people. That's not heart, that's actually doing your job.


Maybe not, but just because she may not have been the most liberal doesn't mean she didn't have a heart. Please do not equate the left or progressive side of things with having a monopoly on "heart". In my experience, people who clearly identify as one direction or the other politically or economically generally care more about their ideology than actual people. That's left to more centrist types who can look at both sides and see the good and bad in each.

I was not talking about whether RBG had heart or compassion. Neither was Obdigore.

I was reacting to the quote you found ("The US lost their mind when they elected Trump and now they have lost their heart with the death of Ginsburg.") because it is a nonsensical quote even looking at her life and works with a very friendly eye.
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#11040 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 03:24 AM

Ah fuck, that's the last thing we need ... :no

https://www.news.com...48f9b48943610cb

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 21 September 2020 - 03:24 AM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

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