[Kalse]

hrm
I'm agreeing with whomever suggested OE was probably the recruiter.
he's one of the original scum (shield), so the only way he could start off w/o the "cultist" moniker is if ANOTHER Shield was the recruiter who got him Night 1.
with Eloth being that recruiter's night 2 recruit.

as a general rule, recruit comes before kill in most NA resolutions, iirc.
so, either Eloth was recruited Night 1 and dind't know his master, or he was recruited Night 2 and OE was recruited night 1 (which would be hilariously redundant, and great for town).

in the first scenario, the cult aspect may be eliminated.
in the second, the recruiter is still around.

note the second scenario presumes Pigkind is not the recruiter, because why would he recruit his own shield?

[Ruse]

At the end of day 1, Anthras came back and had a minor argument with Silanah. Fener was on at the same time, and didn't respond to any of it. I'm not going to post it all here because it's a mess of quotes and such that I don't feel like taking care of. If you want to see it, look at the end of day 1.

This is the first time that Fener has responded to Anthras, or even acknowledged him:

 Fener, on 08 February 2012 - 01:45 AM, said:

 Anthras, on 08 February 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

So tempted to only play when piggy-wiggy is asleep...

I haven't properly slept for about three months. True story

Not the usual crazy pig lord.

This next post caught my eye, even if it doesn't completely have to do with the lack of Fener responses.

 Osseric, on 08 February 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

 Hood, on 08 February 2012 - 08:22 PM, said:

Vote Olar Ethil

The guy is scum. Scummy scum fucking scum. All day long, crack an egg and it becomes Olar scummy scum skull. Now maybe I'll spam the shit out of the thread because that is so towny and helpful right? Right? RIGHT?

ok, that sounds good.

Vote Olar Ethil

The more I think about it, the more I realize HP may be right. Shields are going to lay low, avoid voting for fear of hitting their own, and play a generally non confrontational game. IE Olar, Korabas, Anthras

I am happy to switch tack here and see where this goes.

EDIT:

Spelling

Osseric points out that shields are likely to lay low, fear of voting, non confrontational. Then he points out OE, Korbas, and Anthras. I found that interesting, especially since he was correct about OE.

 Anthras, on 09 February 2012 - 02:07 AM, said:

 Fener, on 09 February 2012 - 01:31 AM, said:

 Anthras, on 09 February 2012 - 01:08 AM, said:

Reading up

Slow reader is slow.

Yeap.

It's like wading through mud. Today is a mess.

That was the only other interaction between the two. Again, not at all normal for Fener.

 Anthras, on 09 February 2012 - 03:33 AM, said:

Me, I'm rereading and trying to decide what I think. I'm going to have to leave soon, so I need to drop a vote before I go. Except there's pretty much two options at the moment and I'm not sure I like either of them.

Ruse is obviously problematic, and I'm not sure I really know what's going on with OE. And HP, for that matter.

This post is pretty non-confrontational. Came right after the fener exchange.

 Anthras, on 09 February 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

I have to go.

Vote Olar Ethil

It's the best chance we have at a lynch today, I think.

Again, barely willing to commit to anything.

 Anthras, on 09 February 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Holy hell, we hit a guard, that's awesome. Now just to wait out night resolution.
I'm feeling a lot better about this game all of a sudden.

That was a low trick from Fener. I second celebrating crossposts!

It's interesting that he called the Shield a guard, instead. Maybe doesn't mean anything, but I felt I should point it out.

So if we are going to take the idea that Fener didn't interact with OE much and pursue it, Anthras would be a very good lynch. On top of that, he is nonconfrontational and low content for the most part. He did have an argument with Sil, but only when Sil's lynch was practically guaranteed.

Vote Anthras

I'll be interested to see where this goes.

[Tennes]

 Rashan, on 09 February 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

 Ruse, on 09 February 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

 Ruse, on 09 February 2012 - 05:52 PM, said:

Well, it was specified as a High TMDI in the sign up thread.

OK. That being said, 4 scum and an non-anounced cult in a 16 player game? Unless town is armed to the teeth (unlikely), peons are fucked.

I completely agree with you here. That's why I think the cult was a function of the Scum team, not an individual faction. One Shield who is a cultist, One who is a killer, One who is a guard (?). That doesn't seem extremely overpowered, if town has the normal roles up their sleeve. and I don't know if that could be correct anyway, but I feel one of the Shields must be a killer. Not sure about the third at all.

It seems a little over-powered to me.

If everything goes well for scum and there's a lynch every day you start with 12 town, 4 scum. Day 2 is 8 town, 5 scum. Day 3 is 4 town, 6 scum.

Having a possible scum majority by more than 1 on day 3 is not, IMO, balanced, even if it's only in the WCS.

This. Also, both scum and town can be cultists. It seems third-party.


And no, roled town are not generally going to hog the spotlight, especially not early game. Sometimes it is better to die quietly without giving away to the scum that they're powered like that.

Also, your set-up with 4 roled scum is way overpowered. I don't know how I would balance that, myself, and I have designed the odd game. The answer probably is: you can't.

Let's do some maths. We don't have a guard, or he would have guarded Steve. We might have a healer but that is a guess-based role. We don;'t have a finder if we have your awesomeness on our side, whih according to you, is alignment based.
We may have a deprogrammer, but that too is a guess-based role. Against 2 killers, a guard and a recruiter, that's nothing. Remember that even if there is no cult, then in your scenario, we are 7 against 3 now with 2 killers and a guard still on the scum side. A wrong lynch, no heal, we lose after this night. And today lasts only 6 hours anway. Yeah, awesome. I really don't like how you try to present this as a potential, balanced set-up. Add a cult and it gets even more convoluted.

No matter. I posted a whine in PM to P-S for SH and right now, I'm going to soldier on as a disappointed townie.

[Kalse]

they fixed the clock, y'know.
we got over 24 h left.

[Tennes]

My faction break down in my scenario:

Cult:
Ruse
HP.

Scum:
Fener
Kalse
Osseric


Town:
Tennes
Rashan
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas

In a two-faction break-down:

Scum:
Fener
Ruse
Osseric

Town:

Tennes
Rashan
Kalse
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas
HP

[Rashan]

Heavy thinking here... can we be certain cultist means what we think it means and isn't just a word Twelve is using for scum? I mean I would think that Twelve knows it's different and that we'd react to the word cultist like its a real cult in the game. I don't recall anything in any scenes hinting to either an actual cult or to the scum being portrayed as if they were like a "cult" in the non mafia sense of the word.

Eloth in this scenario I guess would be a fifth scum of some kind so maybe this doesn't work.

Or, once again, Twelve is just fucking with us...

[Rashan]

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

My faction break down in my scenario:

Cult:
Ruse
HP.

Scum:
Fener
Kalse
Osseric


Town:
Tennes
Rashan
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas

In a two-faction break-down:

Scum:
Fener
Ruse
Osseric

Town:

Tennes
Rashan
Kalse
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas
HP

But how did cult get 4 people in your scenario? Started with 2 and recruited 2 more plus the recruit NA resolves before kill?

[Tennes]

 Kalse, on 09 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

they fixed the clock, y'know.
we got over 24 h left.

Well, that's one convoluted major fuck-up solved.
Frankly, with a cult around, I really don't know what is true and what is not. I get Bubba + Bent memories.

[Tennes]

 Rashan, on 09 February 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

Heavy thinking here... can we be certain cultist means what we think it means and isn't just a word Twelve is using for scum? I mean I would think that Twelve knows it's different and that we'd react to the word cultist like its a real cult in the game. I don't recall anything in any scenes hinting to either an actual cult or to the scum being portrayed as if they were like a "cult" in the non mafia sense of the word.

Me neither, but we see a Cult Shield (word from the OP) and a Cult townie (the blacksmith). That seems to indicate that both alignments can be cult. As such, I would be surprised if cult means scum as Tyrant Steve has 3 shields, and he and his are scum.

Quote

Eloth in this scenario I guess would be a fifth scum of some kind so maybe this doesn't work.

Or, once again, Twelve is just fucking with us...

Cult is not just a trade-in name, it is a mechanic. If you use it as an in-game faction name (Obdi's Sacrificial Vulcano game, Cthulu based games, et cetera), you generally reveal that in the OP, and even then, it has religious connotations, which Tyrnt Steve doesn't seem to have.

[Tennes]

 Rashan, on 09 February 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

My faction break down in my scenario:

Cult:
Ruse
HP.

Scum:
Fener
Kalse
Osseric


Town:
Tennes
Rashan
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas

In a two-faction break-down:

Scum:
Fener
Ruse
Osseric

Town:

Tennes
Rashan
Kalse
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas
HP

But how did cult get 4 people in your scenario? Started with 2 and recruited 2 more plus the recruit NA resolves before kill?

Or start with 3 and recruit after kill, I really don't know.
Look, I am pissed off, I am intoxicated and actually, I don't give much of a flying fuck anymore as with what we know right now, even if we disregard the cult as a fancy tag that has no meaning beyond mind-fucks for the hilarity of SH, I have a hard time believing town win this despite lynching wrong only once so far.

[Kalse]

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

 Kalse, on 09 February 2012 - 06:35 PM, said:

they fixed the clock, y'know.
we got over 24 h left.

Well, that's one convoluted major fuck-up solved.
Frankly, with a cult around, I really don't know what is true and what is not. I get Bubba + Bent memories.

WE DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT THAT GAME!!!!

VOTE PATH-SHAPER

REMOVE VOTE


*curls up in a corner, whimpering*

First!
now i'm dead
now i'ms alive again!
now i'm dead, and drunk Bubba is using my account to post!


*shudders*

[Kalse]

ok, regardless of the cult situation (which we won't figure out w/o more info)

I have HP and Rashan as PIs right now, due to their heavy involvement in the Olar trains.

Ruse is an unknown. I still think more likely inno.

only case we currently have is his case on Antras.
I've been getting an odd vibe off osseric, but can't put my finger on it.

on Anthras, I can't get a read aside from him being a pretty non-confrontational low-poster (which is repeating Ruse, i know)

any other thoughts?

[Sorrit]

So, Tennes, you are saying that Ruse is the cult recruiter?

With the vote piling up on him, he panicked and revealed a duper town role, because it was his only chance to survive the lynch, and since Fener knows he's not a shield, his only chance to survive the nights by attracting the potential healers (or at least the healer threat to avoid Fener picking him)?

Hmm. Not impossible. I didn't pick Ruse as a shield because his reveal was too lame (ironically).

But that may be.

[Sorrit]

There's also that second NK that bugs me.

3 shields + Fener vs 12 non-scum is already quite big. Add a cult that can recruit every night, scum or town, that's hard stuff. Add a second night kill, which until now happened each night and never killed a scum (got a cult, but a town one) that's just a massacre.

[Tennes]

 Sorrit, on 09 February 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

So, Tennes, you are saying that Ruse is the cult recruiter?

With the vote piling up on him, he panicked and revealed a duper town role, because it was his only chance to survive the lynch, and since Fener knows he's not a shield, his only chance to survive the nights by attracting the potential healers (or at least the healer threat to avoid Fener picking him)?

Hmm. Not impossible. I didn't pick Ruse as a shield because his reveal was too lame (ironically).

But that may be.

Him or HP (seeing how HP came up with the recruiter role being around), but HP was leading the charge away from Ruse so I figure him as Ruse's symp/ second in command.

[Sorrit]

I would vote Anthras or Ruse right now, but I'm still not certain. My view of Ruse as "should not lynch" took a hit with the Cult stuff.

[Sorrit]

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

 Sorrit, on 09 February 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

So, Tennes, you are saying that Ruse is the cult recruiter?

With the vote piling up on him, he panicked and revealed a duper town role, because it was his only chance to survive the lynch, and since Fener knows he's not a shield, his only chance to survive the nights by attracting the potential healers (or at least the healer threat to avoid Fener picking him)?

Hmm. Not impossible. I didn't pick Ruse as a shield because his reveal was too lame (ironically).

But that may be.

Him or HP (seeing how HP came up with the recruiter role being around), but HP was leading the charge away from Ruse so I figure him as Ruse's symp/ second in command.

Well then is a scum vs cult game, we are just fodder.

[Sorrit]

There's also Eloth, who was one of the first to follow HP on Olar. Or, possibly, away from Ruse. Maybe he knew about Ruse but didn't know about Olar.


edit: HP, noot Tennes

This post has been edited by Sorrit: 09 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

[Tennes]

 Sorrit, on 09 February 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

 Sorrit, on 09 February 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

So, Tennes, you are saying that Ruse is the cult recruiter?

With the vote piling up on him, he panicked and revealed a duper town role, because it was his only chance to survive the lynch, and since Fener knows he's not a shield, his only chance to survive the nights by attracting the potential healers (or at least the healer threat to avoid Fener picking him)?

Hmm. Not impossible. I didn't pick Ruse as a shield because his reveal was too lame (ironically).

But that may be.

Him or HP (seeing how HP came up with the recruiter role being around), but HP was leading the charge away from Ruse so I figure him as Ruse's symp/ second in command.

Well then is a scum vs cult game, we are just fodder.

I hope not, as I hate set-ups like that. Since Tyrant Steve has to remove all the town's people per his VC, the cult is actually speeding that up if they are a seperate faction.
If they are not and they are with Steve and still around (aka, Mott wasn;t their boss), then even lynching the second killer will still remove 2 players a night from our side, which remains a bleak prospective.

[Osseric]

 Ruse, on 09 February 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

Osseric is not a Shield. I don't think that rules him out as a cultist, though. My action only works on shields.

I wonder what killed the cultist. Either it was a scum slip-up or I'm not town's best role.

So yeah. I have the strange feeling that each guard has a different role. Maybe one of them is a killer, who accidentally killed a cultist. But that seems OP in favor of scum, unless town has a ton of awesome roles.

edit: roles to rules

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

So, HP brought up recruitment as being Ruse's role.
Ruse was desperate to live, which is generally a non-townie trait.
Apparently, town can be recruited, see The Blacksmith.

Anyone who agrees that Ruse may be the recruiter and HP potential starting cultist/ recruiter's symp?

Vote Ruse


Because cult > killer.

I am however rather worried that town has already lost this game if this scenario is true.
2 cult, 3 scum, 5 town does not bode well for us with 2 NKs (the NKs are detached from the amount of votes on Fener, by the by), we will probably end with 3 scum, 4 town and 0 cultists after tonight, and that means d-day tomorrow.
On the other hand, we could all try to be recruited, not sure if that would work. Blergh. This whole cult revelation has diminished my willingness to play, really - I am not sure my faction can even win and I am just refusing to play to be recruited.

vote Tennes

 Tennes, on 09 February 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

My faction break down in my scenario:

Cult:
Ruse
HP.

Scum:
Fener
Kalse
Osseric


Town:
Tennes
Rashan
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas

In a two-faction break-down:

Scum:
Fener
Ruse
Osseric

Town:

Tennes
Rashan
Kalse
Sorrit
Anthras
Korbas
HP