[Fener]

Karatallid, on 01 February 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

Fener, on 01 February 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 01 February 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 01 February 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

checking in

TS lynched, Shadow dead in the night so the Uesugi & Takeda are down by 1 each right?

Kara claims he's a killer?

I have an option to attack in the day and at night. I also have both been attacked at night once and in the day twice. I am wounded so cannot use my daytime ability.

Hang on a second - when exactly have you attacked me? Which days and nights?

Night two onwards. Never in the day, except today

So you're saying you tried to kill me last night as well?

[Karatallid]

Yep

[Sheltatha Lore]

On my phone, so not easy to contribute. Nice confession we got there
Karat, why would the fact that you can't kill Fener mean he's alliance? Or is alliance the new bogey word?

[Fener]

Karatallid, on 01 February 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 01 February 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

checking in

TS lynched, Shadow dead in the night so the Uesugi & Takeda are down by 1 each right?

Kara claims he's a killer?

I have an option to attack in the day and at night. I also have both been attacked at night once and in the day twice. I am wounded so cannot use my daytime ability.

From this I surmise that day attacks wound rather than kill, seeing as we've never had a daytime death. Meaning if you were attacked once more during the day you would die, correct?

From what you've said about when you've targetted me, and if you're telling the truth about everything, I honestly have no idea why I'm not dead. Thus I can only deduce that you're not telling the truth somewhere.

[Omtose]

It seems to be, I don't see why Fener would automatically be alliance because Kara's attempt to kill him failed, seems a leap of logic, unless Kara himself is part of the alliance and can't kill him for that reason and then that makes the point invalid really as they'd both temporarily be on the same side.

I didn't think Miura had any killers left. So you attacked Fener last night Kara, you did not attack Shadow?

[Korvalain]

Caught up-

I thought it was obvious that Kara had Kill power... he the General of the M's. I stated this in a post 1-2 days ago. He never had a counter reveal, so it's pretty obvious he's on the M's. That being said, If Fener is a Leader, thats a good catch. The way his activities have picked up over days 3-5 is telling. Also, if Fener is a lead, it's pretty obvious that Shelly is his General/2nd. For now, I am happy to

vote Fener


Another tell that Fener is a lead that I should have picked up on earlier.... Who is the one that called out Gaylyn Lord on being a leader for knowing too much... that's right, Fener. At the time I thought it was a good catch by Fener, but now, it looks like he caught it because he had similar/the same knowledge as GL and put 2 + 2 together.

After not being able to be day or night killed on multiple days, I don't see how you can argue that you are a leader Fener. Your only recourse will be to claim Ashikage leader and play the "Fuji's are winning!! you can't lynch me!" game. But the way that OMtose and Shelly are seeming to defend you, it looks like you have at least 2 followers. Ashikage only has their general and their Leader. If I was a betting man, I'd say you are Fuji Leader with Shelly your 2nd and Omtose your RI starter buddy..

I am happy to follow Karatallid and vote Fener.

[Korvalain]

Omtose, on 01 February 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

It seems to be, I don't see why Fener would automatically be alliance because Kara's attempt to kill him failed, seems a leap of logic, unless Kara himself is part of the alliance and can't kill him for that reason and then that makes the point invalid really as they'd both temporarily be on the same side.

I didn't think Miura had any killers left. So you attacked Fener last night Kara, you did not attack Shadow?

Clearly, Omtose is defending Fener here.

[Karatallid]

Fener looks to be protected, and I think alliance members are immune to night actions or something. I am unsure. I don't expect half of you to agree with me, you have to keep well hidden i'm sure. Yet i've laid down some new information for you. Any questions on my role to shed some light on others? I'll be back in a couple

[Korvalain]

Here is one of the quotes I was talking about. It's like Fener is doing the same thing he accused GL of doing LOL.... busted.

Fener, on 25 January 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

First off, pursuing the connections to Eloth seems like the best idea to me for today. It's the most concrete course of action I reckon.

But I do want to just to add a bit more meat on to why I put GL's name out there. Basically, it's the way in which he brought up the idea of other, off-thread, alliances being possible which struck me as reading like someone who already knew this was the case but was trying to put it across like a question. So in the post below GL does everything but say what he's thinking - instead he does that .... question mark tactic of leading others to the idea. Karatallid then obligingly does just that, saying openly what GL was suggesting, before GL confirms it. The manner in which he put this across here just seems so careful, like someone dying to say something but somewhat afraid of the consequences.

Galayn Lord, on 25 January 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 25 January 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 25 January 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

I guess this was what Shin means by clues. It was also a kill of a guy from one alliance by a clan in the other.
What is puzzling me: it is called Open Alliance instead of just Alliance... that suggests there may be a different type?

So open allainces announced in thread but there could be hidden alliances told off thread?

I have no proof whatsoever and I don't want to scaremonger, it is just that "Open" is redundant if that is the only type of alliance, isn't it?

I know the above could very well be paranoia reading too much into it. However, the thing that struck me the strangest was that when he brought up the possibility of off-thread alliances, he didn't point to PS' post:

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

The war that had ignited first with the burning of forts along the contested lands between the Uesugi, Takeda and Miura was also waged in quiet rooms, far from any battlefield. The possibility of enemies becoming allies, or even vassals, kept many a spy and messenger in daily rice. There were some, however, who chose to honor their Allies even unto death.

Does the bolded part not suggest what GL hinted at more strongly than an interpretation of what 'Open Alliance' could mean? As several have already pointed out, they did not jump to the same conclusion as GL. But then, why did GL not use this as part of his argument? My instinctive answer is to say because he had already come up with a way of putting out there the suggestion of off-thread alliances using the 'Open Alliance' terminology. Meaning he had thought about how to do it. Meaning there is intent (other than innocent contribution) behind it.


Having said all that, GL has already, in my mind, responded very well to Liosan's vote on him. Despite the somewhat OMGUS vote back on Liosan, I think his points have merit - Liosan jumped on this as soon as I mentioned it (and has now just as eagerly jumped off) without elucidating on his thinking process, as I just have above. It struck me that, with his jumping on GL and subsequently Silanah, Liosan looks very eager to start a train on anyone other than himself.

So this post might have started off about GL, but right now Liosan looks mighty like someone who is sweating profusely.

[Korvalain]

Karatallid, on 01 February 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Fener looks to be protected, and I think alliance members are immune to night actions or something. I am unsure. I don't expect half of you to agree with me, you have to keep well hidden i'm sure. Yet i've laid down some new information for you. Any questions on my role to shed some light on others? I'll be back in a couple

Yeah, as we see who votes along with Fener, I think the Alliance team lines will be pretty clear after today.


It still amazes me how both the Fuji and the Ashi 2nd's went after Shadow and not you. It was pretty obvious you had kill power as the #2 M. odd play by the 2 seconds.

EDIT: Also, Alliance members can't be totally immune to NA's. Gaylan Lord was killed by a NA and he was allied at the time with the Fuji's I believe. So there has to be a way to get to alliance members.

This post has been edited by Korvalain: 01 February 2012 - 05:49 PM

[Fener]

Korvalain, on 01 February 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

Karatallid, on 01 February 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Fener looks to be protected, and I think alliance members are immune to night actions or something. I am unsure. I don't expect half of you to agree with me, you have to keep well hidden i'm sure. Yet i've laid down some new information for you. Any questions on my role to shed some light on others? I'll be back in a couple

Yeah, as we see who votes along with Fener, I think the Alliance team lines will be pretty clear after today.


It still amazes me how both the Fuji and the Ashi 2nd's went after Shadow and not you. It was pretty obvious you had kill power as the #2 M. odd play by the 2 seconds.

Perhaps they thought they could day kill him if his story about being wounded is true.

[Fener]

Ok, here it is:

I am Ashikaga Masamoto.

There is a recruitment system in the game, so I do have more than just my general on my faction.

Now here is what I don't understand about Karatallid's story. He says he has attacked me night 2, night 3, night 4, and day 5.

I am immune from day attacks, and I HAD one BP. That BP was removed on night 3.

Thus, I should have died night 4, because if Kara is not Fuji, and attacked me again, I should have been killed.

Further, whilst allied with the Fujiwari, I have tried - and failed - to recruit Korlat and Olar Ethil. Thus I believe them to be Fujiwari.

If any other faction is to stand a chance of winning, a Fujiwari must be lynched today. Clearly, I am going to die next night anyway (I honestly don't know why I haven't yet as a matter of fact), but if Fujiwari is not lynched today, they are pretty much in an unassailable position.

Which they might practically be already, depending on how many they've successfully recruited and still live.


Edit: wrote day instead of night.

This post has been edited by Fener: 01 February 2012 - 05:57 PM

[Fener]

Here's what I propose:

There are two ways to do this:

1) Lynch a Fujiwari to even the odds somewhat. I die in the night, Fujiwari probably win anyway BUT with their lynch there is a greater chance of another faction coming through to win, something that won't happen if you lynch me.


2) Lynch the Fujiwari general specifically, and Karatallid doesn't try to kill me in the night. I then recruit you, Karatallid, and you will be in the faction with by far the greatest chance of winning (if not then winning outright automatically).

I believe the Fujiwari leader has either been fairly unsuccessful at recruiting, or his recruits have subsequently died, otherwise I don't know why they wouldn't have revealed all by now if they had the numbers.


Of course, no.2 does depend on the Fuji general dying. If you don't lynch the Fuji general, then obviously you, Kara, and whoever else, still have the option of bargaining with them. So you don't have much to lose really.


Edit: their to there

This post has been edited by Fener: 01 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

[Fener]

Of course, Karatallid could still be the Fujiwari general himself, I don't know. It does confuse me why he hasn't been able to kill me if he is Miura, because the alliance only stops NA's from the allies.

[Sheltatha Lore]

OK, back at the computer


There is a lot to digest, but before I say anything, I will update our summary post, which now that Shadow is dead I shamefully declare mine and I'm the one who did all the hard work.



Alliance:

Fujiwari
UNKNOWN LEADER - ALIVE
Lida Gen (UNKNOWN) - ALIVE
UNKNOWN RETAINER - ALIVE
Iwakiri Yoshitora (Merrid/D'rek) - retainer. DEAD

Ashikaga
Ashikaga Masamoto (Fener) - LEADER. ALIVE
Ashikaga Yoshiaki (UNKNOWN) - ALIVE
Usubu Toyokuni (Osseric, Twelve) - retainer. DEAD
Kagemasa Takuro (Liosan/Azathmaster) - retainer. DEAD






Not Alliance:


Takeda
Takeda Nobutara (Atrahal/Mentalist) - Leader. OUT OF GAME/DEAD
Takeda Nobutsuna (Galayn Lord/Tapper) - General. OUT OF GAME/DEAD
Retainer (Shadow/JLV) - Dead
UNKNOWN RETAINER - ALIVE


Uesugi
Uesugi Fusayoshi (Eloth, Gust Hubb) - Leader. OUT OF GAME/DEAD
Nagao Tamekage (Tulas Shorn, Vengeance) - DEAD
RETAINER - ALIVE
RETAINER - ALIVE

Miura
(1)Miura Tokitaka (Okaros/Morgoth) - Leader/General/retainer. OUT OF GAME/DEAD
Miura Yoshiatsu (Karatallid) - Leader/General. ALIVE
(2)Miura Yoshimoto (Silanah, Theblindsapper) - Retainer/General. DEAD
(3)Miura Yoshitora (Sorrit/obdigore) - Retainer. DEAD

This post has been edited by Sheltatha Lore: 01 February 2012 - 06:19 PM

[Sheltatha Lore]

First thing: Now it's theorically 5-4 for the alliance. Which means that either

1) recruitment has shifted the balance

2) the alliance has fuckall to do with victory

[Sheltatha Lore]

Also, we have two known: An Muira and an Ashikaga.

Korvalain is not Uesugi because he was all over Tulas Shorn and Eloth

He is probably not Ashikaga based on his assault of Fener

He's not Muira, and I can tell you he's not Takeda

So, he is Fujiwari, both in the Alliance, and the biggest team right now.

vote Korvalain

[Fener]

I'll go with that.

As I said, I've tried to recruit Olar Ethil and Korlat unsuccessfully, so I think that's our three Fujiwari. It's just picking the right one that's the issue.

remove vote

Vote Korvalain

Unless someone has a better idea of which one is the Fuji general.

[Korvalain]

Omtose is definately with Fener, you can add that to your list. That one is pretty obvious.

Kesso and Tiam... not sure on those 2

[Fener]

Korvalain, on 01 February 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

It still amazes me how both the Fuji and the Ashi 2nd's went after Shadow and not you. It was pretty obvious you had kill power as the #2 M. odd play by the 2 seconds.

Hmm, based on this perhaps Korv is not the Fuji general.

remove vote

Vote Olar Ethil