[Sorrit]

Eloth, on 17 January 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Well why was Okaros so focused on Kesso then?

I just said why I think he did.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Eloth, on 17 January 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Well why was Okaros so focused on Kesso then?

It is of course not entirely possible to say why, but... there's two things here.

First, he is Khell. When inno, he is usually a thread leader and he will not give up making cases just because he has been wrong. In hindsight, with his CF, it all seems so incredibly logical as to why he was doing what he did and pushing on.

Second: there are several players you can eliminate from the equation. Osseric was one, Sorrit was always likelier inno than scum by the association of defending Osseric, I had my reveal which, as said, was dumb but is a dead end for scum, so I'd say he gave me 51% chance of being town. He could eliminate himself with absolute certainty. Of the 11 alive yesterday, that strikes out 4 (including himself). Then there are players who dont strike you as odd. In the end, you narrow it down to a smaller number, perhaps 3, 4.
Consider also that he has been pushing and prodding in certain directions. As a result of that, he probably also eliminated a few people from his most suspect list without telling us.

[Eloth]

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, I was hoping it was Okaros, and perhaps he was UB, but it seems a vain hope.

To be perfectly honest I'm unsure. Olar seems too angry and too disinterested to be scum. I've accepted I'll have to treat you as not scum as well.

That leaves:
Eloth
Silanah
Tulas
Karatallid
Kessobahn
Korlat

Silanah is a non entity, might have been better to remove her in all honesty, rather than Okaros.
Eloth is tied to Okaros in my mind, which doesn't mean anything unless no one comes up silenced.
Korlat, still my strongest gut feeling, but it's been wrong in the past and it might just be that she's simply a disinterested inno that handles pressure poorly.

I've not been able to tie Kesso to anyone, and there seems to be a tenuous connection between Karatallid and Tulas Shorn, but just like the voices such a connection might simply be in my head.

I only ever played the very first Bensen game, so I'm unsure whether there's some sort of dynamic that I'm missing.

So you think Okaros could have been scum anyway?



If he was and Kesso came back innocent then that would put him in the spotlight and everyone would ask why he was so convinced that Kesso was BB. I personally think Okaros had the other role whatever that may have been.



Why would you think you'd be able to tie Kesso to anyone? Surely scum would not want those connections to happen.



If no one was silenced we won't know until tomorrow if we have found UB for certain anyway, whose left to check in since the night resolution?

[Sorrit]

Eloth, on 17 January 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, I was hoping it was Okaros, and perhaps he was UB, but it seems a vain hope.

To be perfectly honest I'm unsure. Olar seems too angry and too disinterested to be scum. I've accepted I'll have to treat you as not scum as well.

That leaves:
Eloth
Silanah
Tulas
Karatallid
Kessobahn
Korlat

Silanah is a non entity, might have been better to remove her in all honesty, rather than Okaros.
Eloth is tied to Okaros in my mind, which doesn't mean anything unless no one comes up silenced.
Korlat, still my strongest gut feeling, but it's been wrong in the past and it might just be that she's simply a disinterested inno that handles pressure poorly.

I've not been able to tie Kesso to anyone, and there seems to be a tenuous connection between Karatallid and Tulas Shorn, but just like the voices such a connection might simply be in my head.

I only ever played the very first Bensen game, so I'm unsure whether there's some sort of dynamic that I'm missing.

So you think Okaros could have been scum anyway?



If he was and Kesso came back innocent then that would put him in the spotlight and everyone would ask why he was so convinced that Kesso was BB. I personally think Okaros had the other role whatever that may have been.



Why would you think you'd be able to tie Kesso to anyone? Surely scum would not want those connections to happen.



If no one was silenced we won't know until tomorrow if we have found UB for certain anyway, whose left to check in since the night resolution?

Unless scum are incredibly crafty, connections will arise simply from how they relate to each other on thread. Every player should have some interaction with every other player and from those interactions one should be able to learn quite a lot. Additionally there's votes, lynches that sort of thing. You know, textbook stuff.

I decided that Okaros was the more likely BB of the two of you simply from how you guys talked about each other, or more correctly, how you talked about Okaros yesterday. Might be I was wrong but that was how I approached it.

[Sorrit]

That came out wrong. I was obviously wrong about Okaros being BB.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Eloth, on 17 January 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, I was hoping it was Okaros, and perhaps he was UB, but it seems a vain hope.

To be perfectly honest I'm unsure. Olar seems too angry and too disinterested to be scum. I've accepted I'll have to treat you as not scum as well.

That leaves:
Eloth
Silanah
Tulas
Karatallid
Kessobahn
Korlat

Silanah is a non entity, might have been better to remove her in all honesty, rather than Okaros.
Eloth is tied to Okaros in my mind, which doesn't mean anything unless no one comes up silenced.
Korlat, still my strongest gut feeling, but it's been wrong in the past and it might just be that she's simply a disinterested inno that handles pressure poorly.

I've not been able to tie Kesso to anyone, and there seems to be a tenuous connection between Karatallid and Tulas Shorn, but just like the voices such a connection might simply be in my head.

I only ever played the very first Bensen game, so I'm unsure whether there's some sort of dynamic that I'm missing.

So you think Okaros could have been scum anyway?



If he was and Kesso came back innocent then that would put him in the spotlight and everyone would ask why he was so convinced that Kesso was BB. I personally think Okaros had the other role whatever that may have been.



Why would you think you'd be able to tie Kesso to anyone? Surely scum would not want those connections to happen.



If no one was silenced we won't know until tomorrow if we have found UB for certain anyway, whose left to check in since the night resolution?

I honestly am 79.57% convinced he was not. A finder in a game like this makes no sense. A guard is overly powerful since they act as a finder with added benefits (no NK on the night they do the find) in a 1-killer game. We have a healer and a vig. Those 4, together with lovers, are the five standard roles. It makes little sense to put something more exotic in.

[Karatallid]

Yeah, I agree now in hindsight, it is less likely that Okaros was scum. He just put himself out there too much, and if he was UB, that is quite a risk to waste on one player who really so far doesn't seem that important to us (low to moderate contributions and a high enough index of suspicious to almost get lynched yesterday).

Btw, was there any one quote that pointed to Okaros' ultimate confidence? I gathered he was gung-ho about a Queso lynch, but not more so than others like Osseric on day one,

[Eloth]

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 January 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Eloth, on 17 January 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Sorrit, on 17 January 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

Well, I was hoping it was Okaros, and perhaps he was UB, but it seems a vain hope.

To be perfectly honest I'm unsure. Olar seems too angry and too disinterested to be scum. I've accepted I'll have to treat you as not scum as well.

That leaves:
Eloth
Silanah
Tulas
Karatallid
Kessobahn
Korlat

Silanah is a non entity, might have been better to remove her in all honesty, rather than Okaros.
Eloth is tied to Okaros in my mind, which doesn't mean anything unless no one comes up silenced.
Korlat, still my strongest gut feeling, but it's been wrong in the past and it might just be that she's simply a disinterested inno that handles pressure poorly.

I've not been able to tie Kesso to anyone, and there seems to be a tenuous connection between Karatallid and Tulas Shorn, but just like the voices such a connection might simply be in my head.

I only ever played the very first Bensen game, so I'm unsure whether there's some sort of dynamic that I'm missing.

So you think Okaros could have been scum anyway?



If he was and Kesso came back innocent then that would put him in the spotlight and everyone would ask why he was so convinced that Kesso was BB. I personally think Okaros had the other role whatever that may have been.



Why would you think you'd be able to tie Kesso to anyone? Surely scum would not want those connections to happen.



If no one was silenced we won't know until tomorrow if we have found UB for certain anyway, whose left to check in since the night resolution?

I honestly am 79.57% convinced he was not. A finder in a game like this makes no sense. A guard is overly powerful since they act as a finder with added benefits (no NK on the night they do the find) in a 1-killer game. We have a healer and a vig. Those 4, together with lovers, are the five standard roles. It makes little sense to put something more exotic in.

I understand what you are saying but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that there may be other roles in this game. In the OP he did say there were various roles present. He didn't say like the last game that there were only two roles present. It is hard that we have to get scum three times, I wouldn't discount the possibility there is a finder. He is also hampered by the fact only one scum comes up as scum

[Karatallid]

Okaros, on 16 January 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Kessobahn carried on the WIFOM argument well beyond it's sell-by-date, bringing it back up whenever there was even a whiff of a mention of it by Osseric, Sorrit, or whoever. It makes him look like he has a CAUSE, a PURPOSE, an AIM. But that cause is nothing to do with what we're trying to achieve here, the lynching of BB. In fact, by constantly bringing it back up, he is actually diverting precious time away from looking for BB (as well as, as a by-product, putting attention again and again back on to Osseric). Kessobahn is scum - I'd stake Shelly's life on it.

Ah, think I found it myself. I dunno. In context, the fact he stakes Shelly's life on it makes it seem less declarative and more hyperbole. He obviously thinks Queso is scum, but not necessarily to the extent that he'd bet his own life on it.

Reading back through the thread, Khells actually doesn't bring up his case till after the weekend, and even then delayed doing so until there was some debate over Shelly's status as healer. This doesn't even smack of a confidence that goes with 100% certainty, which does actually seem to indicate Khells may not have even been our guard and definitely not our finder.

I would agree with the assessment that either he was a guard (less likely in hindsight) or just plain Khells.

So, if he was a guard, we need to lynch Queso and restart the "who is BB" quest. If he was just being bombastic ole Khells, I think Queso can be relegated to the more generalized suspect pool for no.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

Yeah, I agree now in hindsight, it is less likely that Okaros was scum. He just put himself out there too much, and if he was UB, that is quite a risk to waste on one player who really so far doesn't seem that important to us (low to moderate contributions and a high enough index of suspicious to almost get lynched yesterday).

Btw, was there any one quote that pointed to Okaros' ultimate confidence? I gathered he was gung-ho about a Queso lynch, but not more so than others like Osseric on day one,

Re-read yesterday close to the deadline.
He said he staked my life at it.
He also said he'd stake his own on it.

[Karatallid]

Haha, crosspost.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Okaros, on 16 January 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Seriously, we need to lynch kesso. I stake everything on it.

This is what I meant.

[Karatallid]

Another question, of greater concern to me atm, where the fuck is OE? Isn't he on the hit list of a mod-timeout pretty soon?

[Karatallid]

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 January 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Okaros, on 16 January 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

Seriously, we need to lynch kesso. I stake everything on it.

This is what I meant.

You are a kick in the pants Shelly.

[Eloth]

Vote Kessobahn



We were so close yesterday and I don't think we can move on until we find out if Kesso was scum or not.

[Karatallid]

Olar Ethil, on 16 January 2012 - 03:13 PM, said:

only 4 hours? sigh...

i'll be at work soon so I can read up today's comments before i vote. should be around during/before timeout.

Just checked back over and two thoughts. First of all JJJEEEEEZZZZEE!!!!! He's got maybe 5 hours at best on his life clock.

Second, he comments that he will probably be around for timeout of day 2, which obviously didn't happen. Hell, he wasn't even gracefully late.

[Karatallid]

Silanah, on 17 January 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

I'm back, at work, my internet conked out at an awkward time last night, and I misjudged day ending.

And I have no idea what's going on anymore

I'll be back in a couple of hours and do a better reread of the thread.
At least I can talk again!

And while I'm pointing out delinquencies

sorry, just rereading the earlier part of today, and these jumped out at me, I might have to agree with Eloth and say Queso needs to go before we can move on...

[Karatallid]

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 January 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

^

The TS post is there to show how Kara backpedals a bit when he realizes he's slightly overdone it, but the two of them are really working hard to get Kesso's unrealistic representation accepted and legitimized.

I assume you retract this statement with current reasoning that Khells roled status is in question and is not cut and dry as TS seemed to think?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 10:35 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 January 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

^

The TS post is there to show how Kara backpedals a bit when he realizes he's slightly overdone it, but the two of them are really working hard to get Kesso's unrealistic representation accepted and legitimized.

I assume you retract this statement with current reasoning that Khells roled status is in question and is not cut and dry as TS seemed to think?

I see no reason why.


The only way we can be sure Khell wasn't UB is by not lynching anyone he was suspicious off, today. Are you advocating that?
Yes or no, please?

[Silanah]

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

Silanah, on 17 January 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

I'm back, at work, my internet conked out at an awkward time last night, and I misjudged day ending.

And I have no idea what's going on anymore

I'll be back in a couple of hours and do a better reread of the thread.
At least I can talk again!

And while I'm pointing out delinquencies

sorry, just rereading the earlier part of today, and these jumped out at me, I might have to agree with Eloth and say Queso needs to go before we can move on...

Shh, I've been super busy the last two days. Anyway, I'm here now and reading.