[Kessobahn]

ah well.

Oka, I hope Shelly's as convinced as you seem to think she is.



k, om out for a while.

[Korlat]

On my phone, MLK day here in the states so I have no access to a cpu. I totaally forgot about it. Won't have access till tomorrow. sorry for the mised lynch. To top it off, we are getting a bunch of snow here so might not even have access tomorrow. I'll try to play from my phone. but no promises.

[Karatallid]

Fuck, fuck, fuck. you guys didn't lynch? >.< Well unless our healer and/or guard is really good, there goes our advantage. Fuck

[Karatallid]

@Okaros: As for your, "I already answered when Eloth said the same thing", Uh, no, not that I can tell. What I am accusing you of, and let me be crystal clear, is the lack of commentary in regards to my countercase. I take a look at the same body of quotes as you, pick out different ones not even in your case and comment on how they seem to point to Atrahal innocence as opposed to scumminess.

You do not comment on that, you brush it aside as symp talk. Is that clear?

Ok, so I'll stop talking until night resolves, but stop side stepping the question Okaros. Do you need you to quote my own case again to bring it before your rheumy little eyes? Why did you ignore it hmmm?

[Tulas Shorn]

Well this is ironic. I was gone at lynch time again, was actually on the right train for once, and I still voted for someone who wasn't lynched.

Personally, I think that Kesso might have been a good choice. Hopefully we get another lucky no-kill night.

[Okaros]

Jesus, fine, let's re-tread ground from a week ago. Why didn't I reply properly? Short answer: I was on my phone when I saw your case so only made a short response, and by the time I got back to the computer we had moved on some from your post. Shorter answer: I couldn't be bothered to reply in detail. Shorter shorter answer: I believed in an Atrahal lynch at the time.

But fine, let's do it:

Karatallid, on 12 January 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Atrahal Day 1: I'm not seeing it yet.

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 09 January 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Ok, a question for somebody that played a Benses game before - The OP says there will be 1 Big Ben & 1 Uncle Ben - Can we expect any other scum ie. standard symps etc?

no
there will be a total of 3 scum in the game



BB1, UB, BB2

once we lynch BB2, the game ends, regardless of whether UB is still alive.

Ok, wasn't counting BB2, guess that evens the odds some

So one of the first things Atrahal does is clarify game dynamics as a newbie to Bense's game (good move for scum trying to look inno and all). However, there isn't any extension of the conversation topic beyond this and to me that would be less expected for someone playing up the ignorant inno angle. Not to me, scum wouldn't invite the conversation topic, they'd only respond is my thinking. Thus, if no one extended it, then scum wouldn't bother carrying on with it. Guess I was wrong in Atrahal's case. Whoops.

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Osseric, on 09 January 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

No, it's a reasonable idea - UB making BB more legitimate by afflicting him with silence, giving him shelter from Day 1 antics

But how can this not be WIFOM, as GL has wittily named it?

Because a smart UB would know that we expect that and wait a couple days to get some townies first, ad nauseum

Damn. I was hoping no one would bring up WIFOM. That word can easily invalidate an argument.

@engorged words. But he would know that we know that he knows that we know that we can expect him to silence townies first, so he silences himself or his killer first.

Obvious WIFOM, yes. Merely presenting a theory other than HE SAID KNIFE! HE MUST BE KILLER!

BUt isn't WIFOM one of the gauges that we must use to determine if an idea/theory/case/argument can be legitimately pursued? The confusion that follows will make smoke. This is why I asked if this was a serious line of question (and it must be, two pages of it) or spam.

Beginnings of the WIFOM argument. Not sure exactly what smoke means (obfuscation? extra fluff for later analysis? smoke signals?. Also, as one can see at the start of the quote, it looks like Atrahal is leaning towards Osseric's line of thinking, namely that the silenced could be a clever way to hide scum day one (if I understand him right...) So you're saying he's encouraging WIFOM? Well, according to some on here, that would definitely be either scummy, or so unhelpful that it qualifies as scummy even from an inno.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I'm back, a quick look shows we're still on the same ground

A quick little prod to move on. Useless filler comment from Atrahal.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Osseric, on 10 January 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

Okay so it's pretty obvious from my postings that I'm either symp or RI. I'm really putting myself out there with a theory that isn't so normal. I'm RI, but there's no way for you to know that for sure unless you test it.

I'm saying don't vote me today, as that's wasteful. If we vote Okaros today, and he comes up scum, you have me PIed. If he comes up inno, you can vote me tomorrow if you really feel the need. The point is that voting me today doesn't do anything, really. If Okaros ends up inno, hopefully roleless, then you can fucking vote me if your damn minds won't let you do otherwise. Losing me only loses town a vocal player, nothing more. But I'd much prefer seeing Okaros dead today, so you guys can at least have something to work with (Sorrit backing me up, or GL vehemently opposing me).

As to Okaros being knocked off without being able to defend himself, sorry if I'm being callous, but OH WELL. It's mafia, someone has to be lynched day 1. Sometimes you just fucking die. I'm not going to cry if I get voted off day 1.

Something about this post bothers me, Osseric. You're essentially betting your life that Okaros is scum, even though there's no way you can know. I'm glad of any vocal player, but you're trying to lead the thread. Being absent doesn't save people from getting voted, so I doubt that silence will keep Okaros safe if everybody goes that way.

I get a vibe from you like someone that;s L-1 or thereabouts, trying to dodge a lynch

I think here he does make a good point on day 1. Osseric's adamancy seemed incongruent with day 1. Day 1 is a hard day to get a read on people and make a case, but Osseric's stubbornness seems really stupid (and by default, thus, possibly really ballsy clever...). I concur, not really about Atrahal this comment though...unless you mean that Atrahal made a good point? So? That makes him 100% inno?

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 January 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 9 hours and 22 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Atrahal, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Karatallid ( Sheltatha Lore )
2 Votes for Tiamatha ( Korlat, Okaros )
3 Votes for Osseric ( Kessobahn, Olar Ethil, Eloth )
2 Votes for Okaros ( Osseric, Sorrit )

Players not voted: Atrahal, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Silanah, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

Alright, I'm going to say why I think these votes have been cast, anybody disagrees just say so - clarification for my own sake would be welcome

Karatallid - Shelly says hes a symp for Osseric
Tiamatha - Korlat says Tiam is a lurker, Okaros is proving he doesn't deflect from Tiam by voting
Osseric - Kesso says he's scum trying to get an inno lynched, Olar was drunk, Eloth says WIFOM is evil
Okaros - Osseric says we don't know Okaros isn;t scum, Sorrit is in agreement

My thoughts at this time:
Kara - I don't think he's a symp for Osseric
Tiam - may have lurked, is a low poster
Osseric - talks alot, WIFOM spewing tea-drinker but I'm not convinced he's scum
Okaros - silenced, downtrodden, used pictures of boobies (I kid, I kid) No way to call that


I'm not liking any of these choices. We have 9 hours to decide, or face a no-lynch day. Let it be known I defend or endorse none of these players.

Best post thus far. Good summary, he provides his own opinions, lack of laying down a vote is problematic (classic laundry list, "look i'm contributing!" without risking anything with a vote). So even you see a problem here. This is exactly the kind of thing that caught my eye - useful-looking posts which however refused to commit. I guess I was wrong in Atrahal's case. Whoops.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Eloth, on 10 January 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

I think if we lynch Tiam it will have to be on grounds of low-posting. The lurking thing in question is not something that I find terribly scummy, if true.

Tiam has 12 posts more than me, granted I missed the first 12 hours of dragonsecks but a vote from me for low posting would be rich, I just haven't had the time i've wanted as of yet. Silanah has only three posts. So that could be a way of staying out of the limelight, let us all fight amongst ourselves

Sure, I didn't mean to say Tiam is the lowest, but she's got votes on her now.

And Silanah could be doing that, no doubt

Give my suspicions today of Silanah (which by the way have lessened a little now that she is actually starting to contribute), Atrahal seems to be diligent and thorough in pointing out alternatives and not just putting on blinders, even if he doesn't elaborate enough. So you became blind to Atrahal because he happened to agree on something with you? Oh dear, how naive. You're lucky Atrahal turned out to be inno

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

I think the Tiam vote is the way to go for me. See those posts in one place makes me realize how poor the content was. Any town person should at least do something productive.

One question, if he was scum and Osseric is not, why would he try to defend Osseric?

This question was later misunderstood as why is Osseric defending Tiam. But he's really asking why Tiam, if scum, would stretch out his neck to defend the very scummy unrepentant Osseric, which, as we can see with hindsight, may have been a good point.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Well, I'm ready to proceed, based on all avaiable info. We need to move forward, I'd prefer to not miss a lynch opportuntiy


Vote Tiamatha

Proceeding on a weak case is not all that incriminating on day 1, when pretty much all cases are incriminating. Atrahal's day 1 play style to me seems precise, calculated, and definitely inbetween the scale of boisterous bombast and low-lying coasting. As a whole, he strikes me as townie, albeit a much quieter one than Osseric, and not sure that says much...

Atrahal's day 1 play style to me seems precise, calculated, and definitely inbetween the scale of boisterous bombast and low-lying coasting. As a whole, he strikes me as scummy.


In the end, Kara, I put out a suspicion - one I felt strongly enough to make a case on. Clearly, others felt the same, or why would they have voted that way. And, let's face it, ultimately, your defense of Atrahal did more than anything to confirm the votes on Atrahal. Dare I suggest fake sympage in order to confirm his death, and now you're refocussing that on me by bringing it all up again?

[Tulas Shorn]

Eloth, on 16 January 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

How long do we have left? I don't see my Tulas vote taking off although I will maybe look to do a more thorough read up and see if I can get a proper case built. If you have a look throughout the thread a lot of people mention a player a few times and then that player is set up for the lynch, it happened with Atrahal and I think it will happen to me tomorrow or the next day, comments like Eloth pinged my scum dar, I have no "feel" on Eloth, and a few posts like this, even in the list of players that people have produced. I don't see why i've been given of this scent. I'm doing my best and when i'm gone away for a while i've let you know, I think scum would be around a lot more than me, either to try and manipulate the thread or defend themselves when they can, I was gone all weekend and can only get on at certain points in the day where I try and get involved as much as possible. If I could analyse the thread a little better, i'd probably be a better asset but seem as though I can't maybe a lynch of me could help town. Right now letting the day time out doesn't help us what so ever. We'd be stuck on the various arguments of the last couple of days. That being said i'll

Remove Vote

Vote Kessobahn

I think he seems the better choice for a lynch today although this isn't one I am confident on like I was with Atrahal. Maybe it will be more succesful because I don't have a great "read" on him. If he is trying to blend in then it is working because I can only remember his posts about Osseric and nothing much more.

Poor Eloth, the more he posts the more he bothers me.

Quote

How long do we have left? I don't see my Tulas vote taking off although I will maybe look to do a more thorough read up and see if I can get a proper case built.

"My vote on Tulas has little reasoning behind it, so maybe I should go see if there's any evidence somewhere."

Quote

If you have a look throughout the thread a lot of people mention a player a few times and then that player is set up for the lynch, it happened with Atrahal and I think it will happen to me tomorrow or the next day, comments like Eloth pinged my scum dar, I have no "feel" on Eloth, and a few posts like this, even in the list of players that people have produced.

Fatalism, trying to steer people away from looking at him through sympathy. And it's not even true. Some people have given more weight behind their observations than "feel" and "pinged scum dar".

The rest of the post is...wow, poor poor Eloth.

[Path-Shaper]

ok give me a sec to get caught up... I will end what needs to be ended.

Venge

[Kessobahn]

ooh, good timing, me

fwiw: Oka, after geting some food into me and waking up, I realized why you did what you did. I don't necessarily agree with you, but, depending on how night ends, I may concede it's necessary to lynch me. I would urge to say nothing else on he matter, though.

[Tulas Shorn]

Damn, I was hoping to see the resolution, but I gotta run. Will try to check on my phone later I guess.

[Path-Shaper]

The quite of the night was shattered by repeated screams. Then the silence that only death can bring. Then more repeated screams. Then even more deadly silence. Even one started counting out on their fingers (not bright enough to do it in their heads) who was around and who wasn't. The fog that no one had noticed lifted and on the ground with joker grins were


Osseric he was not Big Ben (JLV)

and

Okaros he was not Big Ben (Khell)


As my plastic surgeon always said: if you gotta go, go with a smile.

It is now day 4

It is Day 4. 34 hours and 52 minutes remaining
9 Players still alive: Eloth, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Olar Ethil, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Eloth, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Olar Ethil, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn


I shaved off a hour because that is roughly how long since night timed out.

[Karatallid]

Shit.

[Karatallid]

Kessobahn, on 17 January 2012 - 12:33 AM, said:

ooh, good timing, me

fwiw: Oka, after geting some food into me and waking up, I realized why you did what you did. I don't necessarily agree with you, but, depending on how night ends, I may concede it's necessary to lynch me. I would urge to say nothing else on he matter, though.

Ok, night's over Queso. WTF are you talking about?

[Kessobahn]

Oka was a guard.

he thought I was scum cuz no one died night 2 when he chose to guard me.

that's the only reason I can see for his sudden conviction that i'm 100% scum.

[Kessobahn]

also, I'm impressed that our vig waited till night 3 to kill. usually they tend to blow their load on night 1.

[Kessobahn]

i'm dissapointed in our healer, btw. I'd have hoped they'd focus on Okaros.

[Karatallid]

Ah, that may make some sense why he had such a boner for you out of the blue. Not that I entirely buy that, but yeah.

[Kessobahn]

Karatallid, on 17 January 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

Ah, that may make some sense why he had such a boner for you out of the blue. Not that I entirely buy that, but yeah.

that's the most sense I could make of it. I dind't occur to me till after timeout though (like I said, I was still waking up when i came back). At that point, I kept thinking "he can't be a finder, why else, he'd be so confident?"

then I remembered the possibility of a guard. though, admittedly, if I was Khell, i'd have waited another night w/o saying anyhting to test it.

my point was, if no one died this night, he'd have every reason to believe me to be BB, justifying his resolve to lynch me. I would not have opposed that.

alas, ether BB clued into it, or our vig didn't like the push.

[Karatallid]

Well, either way, Khells got close.

[Karatallid]

On the other hand, that suddenly brings up Shelly all over again (successful heal or scum trick)? Also, for sake of argument, that means at least you are not BB, but that doesn't mean you aren't UB btw (not that we could tell with the stupid limited CFs)