[Karatallid]

Atrahal Day 1: I'm not seeing it yet.

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 07:07 PM, said:

Kessobahn, on 09 January 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Ok, a question for somebody that played a Benses game before - The OP says there will be 1 Big Ben & 1 Uncle Ben - Can we expect any other scum ie. standard symps etc?

no
there will be a total of 3 scum in the game



BB1, UB, BB2

once we lynch BB2, the game ends, regardless of whether UB is still alive.

Ok, wasn't counting BB2, guess that evens the odds some

So one of the first things Atrahal does is clarify game dynamics as a newbie to Bense's game (good move for scum trying to look inno and all). However, there isn't any extension of the conversation topic beyond this and to me that would be less expected for someone playing up the ignorant inno angle.

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 11:00 PM, said:

Osseric, on 09 January 2012 - 10:54 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 09 January 2012 - 10:48 PM, said:

No, it's a reasonable idea - UB making BB more legitimate by afflicting him with silence, giving him shelter from Day 1 antics

But how can this not be WIFOM, as GL has wittily named it?

Because a smart UB would know that we expect that and wait a couple days to get some townies first, ad nauseum

Damn. I was hoping no one would bring up WIFOM. That word can easily invalidate an argument.

@engorged words. But he would know that we know that he knows that we know that we can expect him to silence townies first, so he silences himself or his killer first.

Obvious WIFOM, yes. Merely presenting a theory other than HE SAID KNIFE! HE MUST BE KILLER!

BUt isn't WIFOM one of the gauges that we must use to determine if an idea/theory/case/argument can be legitimately pursued? The confusion that follows will make smoke. This is why I asked if this was a serious line of question (and it must be, two pages of it) or spam.

Beginnings of the WIFOM argument. Not sure exactly what smoke means (obfuscation? extra fluff for later analysis? smoke signals?. Also, as one can see at the start of the quote, it looks like Atrahal is leaning towards Osseric's line of thinking, namely that the silenced could be a clever way to hide scum day one (if I understand him right...)

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

I'm back, a quick look shows we're still on the same ground

A quick little prod to move on.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Osseric, on 10 January 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

Okay so it's pretty obvious from my postings that I'm either symp or RI. I'm really putting myself out there with a theory that isn't so normal. I'm RI, but there's no way for you to know that for sure unless you test it.

I'm saying don't vote me today, as that's wasteful. If we vote Okaros today, and he comes up scum, you have me PIed. If he comes up inno, you can vote me tomorrow if you really feel the need. The point is that voting me today doesn't do anything, really. If Okaros ends up inno, hopefully roleless, then you can fucking vote me if your damn minds won't let you do otherwise. Losing me only loses town a vocal player, nothing more. But I'd much prefer seeing Okaros dead today, so you guys can at least have something to work with (Sorrit backing me up, or GL vehemently opposing me).

As to Okaros being knocked off without being able to defend himself, sorry if I'm being callous, but OH WELL. It's mafia, someone has to be lynched day 1. Sometimes you just fucking die. I'm not going to cry if I get voted off day 1.

Something about this post bothers me, Osseric. You're essentially betting your life that Okaros is scum, even though there's no way you can know. I'm glad of any vocal player, but you're trying to lead the thread. Being absent doesn't save people from getting voted, so I doubt that silence will keep Okaros safe if everybody goes that way.

I get a vibe from you like someone that;s L-1 or thereabouts, trying to dodge a lynch

I think here he does make a good point on day 1. Osseric's adamancy seemed incongruent with day 1. Day 1 is a hard day to get a read on people and make a case, but Osseric's stubbornness seems really stupid (and by default, thus, possibly really ballsy clever...).

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 10 January 2012 - 08:55 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 9 hours and 22 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Atrahal, Eloth, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Karatallid ( Sheltatha Lore )
2 Votes for Tiamatha ( Korlat, Okaros )
3 Votes for Osseric ( Kessobahn, Olar Ethil, Eloth )
2 Votes for Okaros ( Osseric, Sorrit )

Players not voted: Atrahal, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Silanah, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

Alright, I'm going to say why I think these votes have been cast, anybody disagrees just say so - clarification for my own sake would be welcome

Karatallid - Shelly says hes a symp for Osseric
Tiamatha - Korlat says Tiam is a lurker, Okaros is proving he doesn't deflect from Tiam by voting
Osseric - Kesso says he's scum trying to get an inno lynched, Olar was drunk, Eloth says WIFOM is evil
Okaros - Osseric says we don't know Okaros isn;t scum, Sorrit is in agreement

My thoughts at this time:
Kara - I don't think he's a symp for Osseric
Tiam - may have lurked, is a low poster
Osseric - talks alot, WIFOM spewing tea-drinker but I'm not convinced he's scum
Okaros - silenced, downtrodden, used pictures of boobies (I kid, I kid) No way to call that


I'm not liking any of these choices. We have 9 hours to decide, or face a no-lynch day. Let it be known I defend or endorse none of these players.

Best post thus far. Good summary, he provides his own opinions, lack of laying down a vote is problematic (classic laundry list, "look i'm contributing!" without risking anything with a vote).

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Eloth, on 10 January 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

I think if we lynch Tiam it will have to be on grounds of low-posting. The lurking thing in question is not something that I find terribly scummy, if true.

Tiam has 12 posts more than me, granted I missed the first 12 hours of dragonsecks but a vote from me for low posting would be rich, I just haven't had the time i've wanted as of yet. Silanah has only three posts. So that could be a way of staying out of the limelight, let us all fight amongst ourselves

Sure, I didn't mean to say Tiam is the lowest, but she's got votes on her now.

And Silanah could be doing that, no doubt

Give my suspicions today of Silanah (which by the way have lessened a little now that she is actually starting to contribute), Atrahal seems to be diligent and thorough in pointing out alternatives and not just putting on blinders, even if he doesn't elaborate enough.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

I think the Tiam vote is the way to go for me. See those posts in one place makes me realize how poor the content was. Any town person should at least do something productive.

One question, if he was scum and Osseric is not, why would he try to defend Osseric?

This question was later misunderstood as why is Osseric defending Tiam. But he's really asking why Tiam, if scum, would stretch out his neck to defend the very scummy unrepentant Osseric, which, as we can see with hindsight, may have been a good point.

Atrahal, on 10 January 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

Well, I'm ready to proceed, based on all avaiable info. We need to move forward, I'd prefer to not miss a lynch opportuntiy


Vote Tiamatha

Proceeding on a weak case is not all that incriminating on day 1, when pretty much all cases are incriminating. Atrahal's day 1 play style to me seems precise, calculated, and definitely inbetween the scale of boisterous bombast and low-lying coasting. As a whole, he strikes me as townie, albeit a much quieter one than Osseric, and not sure that says much...

[Karatallid]

So with all that, I'm not really ready to lynch Atrahal. I don't see him defending himself adequately with pictures (despite some people's high expectations of the silenced) and given his current day 2 posts, I think if he's town we want him around. He needs to post more of his savvy thoughts, and I'm willing to give him one more day on probation.

[Karatallid]

Well, despite the 2 other anonymous lurkers below, it seems quiet and dead on the thread. I was hoping for some pre-work discussion or even a comment or two, but not looking very likely. I think the day will time out before I can get back and since Silanah is stepping up a little (doing the low post, high acuity thing that Atrahal is doing), I'm willing to back down for now. I'll move my vote to the next highest scum candidate on my profiles list:


Remove Vote


Vote Olar Ethil


I will try to escape for lunch time, but really can't promise anything. See you all this evening at the latest.

[Silanah]

Wait, why Olar Ethil? Have I missed something or is that a wee bit out of the blue?

[Karatallid]

Glad I'm still running around, late as usual. I already gave my reasoning behind Olar Ethil in my profiles post.

[Karatallid]

To rehash, OE spent most of day one drunk (meh, day 1 granted...). His case on Osseric was last minute and didn't come close being as convincing as he implied it would be. As I said, mostly more WIFOM shout-downs and telling Osseric to shut up. In the end, I don't believe OE even followed up with a vote on day 2, despite his case carrying on past the day 1 lynch (yeah, didn't finish it in time to save tiam, not that much could be expected that late in the day....).

Today, no vote as of yet, he has moved onto an OMGUS bent for day 2 while still clinging to pointing out WIFOM when he can, today really all he seems to have done is rant about the healer reveal and make half-assed more like grumpy irritable grudge pokes at Osseric, even though he's stated Osseric is not really worth it a lynch at this point. Not really a stellar member of town, if he is.

[Karatallid]

Ok, gotta go. Damn, mafia makes me later than I already am. I blame brood.

[Okaros]

Well, I guess we've found Atrahal's symp then

[Silanah]

Oh, do you disagree with Kara's post on Atra then?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Okaros, on 12 January 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Well, I guess we've found Atrahal's symp then

He definately does spend quite some time making a defensive case on why someone else is inno.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Silanah, on 12 January 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Oh, do you disagree with Kara's post on Atra then?

Even if you agree with the general sentiment of Kara (I don't), it is really odd that someone goes to the effort of dragging up so many quotes and effectively making a case of someone else being town. Most people don't go to that length even on their own defense, especially so early in the game.

If they are both RI, how can Kara be so certain of Atrahal's innocence that he goes this far? I mean, what he has essentially done is to forge a connection in everyone's mind that they are related, without waiting for Atrahal to post something first. Very unusual.

Also, how many votes does Atrahal have? The one vote he has certainly does seems not that many, even though I am so awesome that my vote ought to count double.

[Atrahal]

This post has been edited by Atrahal: 12 January 2012 - 01:00 PM

[Sorrit]

Yeah, I find myself much more comfortable voting for Atrahal following Karatallid's case. Although I'll hold until Atrahal finishes whatever argument he's planning to make.

[Tulas Shorn]

Back with some thoughts on the readup.

First of all, I think Korlat and Eloth's posts about disparaging the Tiam lynch were at least in part directed at me. I wasn't arguing that we should not of gotten a lynch on day one. I'm also perfectly aware that day 1 lynches are often going to end up being pretty random since there isn't much to go on. That doesn't mean, however, that we can't look and see how people may have used that day 1 lynch towards their own ends.

In other news, as I was reading page 16 I just got this distinct impression that Eloth was making up stuff for the sake of getting posts and appear to be contributing. Just a hunch, mind. Someone else go back and read page 16 and tell me if you get what I'm sayin'. Or tell me I'm jumping at shadows. Either way, I'd like to know someone else's opinion.

Sorry for slim contribution - I've found myself with a very specific and rather slender window of play opportunity this time around.

[Sorrit]

Tulas Shorn, on 12 January 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

Back with some thoughts on the readup.

First of all, I think Korlat and Eloth's posts about disparaging the Tiam lynch were at least in part directed at me. I wasn't arguing that we should not of gotten a lynch on day one. I'm also perfectly aware that day 1 lynches are often going to end up being pretty random since there isn't much to go on. That doesn't mean, however, that we can't look and see how people may have used that day 1 lynch towards their own ends.

In other news, as I was reading page 16 I just got this distinct impression that Eloth was making up stuff for the sake of getting posts and appear to be contributing. Just a hunch, mind. Someone else go back and read page 16 and tell me if you get what I'm sayin'. Or tell me I'm jumping at shadows. Either way, I'd like to know someone else's opinion.

Sorry for slim contribution - I've found myself with a very specific and rather slender window of play opportunity this time around.

How many posts do you have on each page? or better yet, can you point to a post #?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 9 hours and 13 minutes remaining

12 Players still alive: Atrahal, Eloth, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn

7 votes to lynch, 6 votes to go to night.

2 Votes for Atrahal ( Sheltatha Lore, Eloth )
1 Vote for Olar Ethil ( Karatallid )
1 Vote for Osseric ( Kessobahn )

Players not voted: Atrahal, Korlat, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Osseric, Silanah, Sorrit, Tulas Shorn

[Tulas Shorn]

Posts 603, 619,620, 635. They just seemed out of synch with what was around them, and there was no relation from one post to the next.

[Sorrit]

Tulas Shorn, on 12 January 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Posts 603, 619,620, 635. They just seemed out of synch with what was around them, and there was no relation from one post to the next.

603 seemed to come a little out of the blue I agree, but the other three all fit into the general discussion going on at the time as far as I can tell.

[Tulas Shorn]

Fair enough.

In terms of votes, I will go ahead and Vote Karatallidbecause of my earlier posts, and, I'm curious as to what sort of interesting rhetoric tool he'll use to prove his innocence or the invalidity of my argument.

As for the other 3 with votes already, I would vote for Atrahal. Osseric I think is an inno who glommed onto an idea and decided to defend it, and then said some other stuff out of frustration. Olar Ethil I don't have much of a feel on, except that his posts seem too impolite to be hiding scum.

[Atrahal]

Sorrit, on 12 January 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Yeah, I find myself much more comfortable voting for Atrahal following Karatallid's case. Although I'll hold until Atrahal finishes whatever argument he's planning to make.