[Nicodimas]

I went through the Governmental system in the United states <or Federal Reserve Empire funded brainwashing for war and to be dumb>...

What I would like to see is if they could focus on training both sides of the brain more. Left and right, knowing facts is great, but lets try to play to different peoples strengths. This would be a great way to make school fun with play, you wouldn't have to go from math,English, social science, science, to alternative language.BLAH. Even more importantly this should be funded just as much as say English/Math/It levels classes. Have classes on making a joke effectively, talking to people effectively, remembering a story, designing something different, that generic art class you take once during school doesn't cut it. Children/teens should learn a technical trade skill also. It should be whatever the heck they want to learn about too! Let them be kids and mess around, the point is for them to figure out how to learn something, not to be forcefed information that will never effect them. So maybe 40/40/20 split between the three to make for more well rounded students.

For me I think this would have made me a better student as I didn't really care until college, as I got to study classes I was interesting...do you know? other subject became interesting, because I saw how they tie together.

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 09 March 2012 - 09:04 PM

[worry]

I'm sure they'll get on that as soon as their ample funds come through.

[Nicodimas]

worrywort, on 09 March 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

I'm sure they'll get on that as soon as their ample funds come through.

True statement...lol. Do the good thing and get rid of Goverment education..plenty of ways to make it work.

[worry]

No there's not.

[Shinrei]

I think this may have been posted on another thread, but even so this is certainly worth the repost

http://www.ted.com/t...creativity.html

This post has been edited by Shinrei: 10 March 2012 - 04:55 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Shinrei, on 10 March 2012 - 04:55 AM, said:

I think this may have been posted on another thread, but even so this is certainly worth the repost

http://www.ted.com/t...creativity.html

It's a great message. I agree totally.

Where we probably disagree is in how to implement it.

[Shinrei]

Well, I am actually am dirty socialist when it comes to education. I firmly believe that there needs to be government funded public education. However, what we have now with the standardized test increasingly being the prime evaluation of both students and teachers... this is a terrible misstep IMO. Something that I feel is symptomatic of government needing to show statistical competitiveness to compare against international test scores where you have systems like those in Asia where their test scores are light years ahead, but the innovative/critical-thinking skills tend to be less emphasized.

[HiddenOne]

The only test of education I need to see is that we as a people in USA are becoming progressively stupid. Want to argue? Walk outside, go do some errands with your eyes wide open, then come back and try to convince yourself that we aren't.


Public school system & state post-secondary failure. Teach some sense along with those test-taking techniques.

[Nicodimas]

Its easy Worry...well to me.

Give each parent a bond and let the parents choose the school the student attend, call it a government obligation bond. The school has to preform and deliver on the parents need. It doesn't it gets closed down. This would allow private schools to pick up..so a kind of check and balances system. So a type of socialism, it would suck though if a privatized school system that fed off corporate interests started. I could see a Walmart of school started... Hey since we are on this subject the difference could be offered in student loans for your kids.. I mean essentially it would be a another form of taxes that you spread your payments out that have interest on them.

However the theory is that this would increase the quality as it would allow competition.


I'm sorry I am video happy lately.

So is the problem trusting the parents to make the right choices with there kids educations, or should we trust the government to fund a school system and tell your children what way of learning is good? I think multiple directional thinking with a emphasis on learning trade and theory is the way to go. Make it more fun! <My sister in law is a teacher, and my sister is a vice principal>

[worry]

And if the only private school near you is a Mormon indoctrination campus? The stats on how many Americans believe in evolution vs. creationism are already daunting enough, I'd hate to see what they'd look like if the public good was removed entirely from the equation. http://www.gallup.co...ent-design.aspx

And while I agree with Shin about the standardized test focus being an overall detriment, I wouldn't consider it the root of the problem. Poverty, basic funding shortages, overwhelming class size, and worst of all, stubborn stupid parents have all had a tremendous negative effect. I trust the "government" more than I trust parents, yes, since their standards -- as awry as they can be implemented -- are higher and more rational than those of most parents. I DO want children of parents who believe in Intelligent Design to be removed from those parents 8 hours a day, at least given information that contradicts their moron parents' beliefs (whether they ultimately accept it is up to them I guess), and frankly I don't want those parents to have a say in the matter. Because those kids aren't their property, they are fellow citizens, and they have a right to hear the truth from somebody before they have to fend for themselves as adults. Your proposal would lead to more Rick Santorums, not fewer.

[Illuyankas]

The guy who runs Conservapedia is a homeschool teacher who self-teaches his own kids as well as a bunch of other children, and there are plenty more like him out there, after all.

[Shinrei]

worrywort, on 10 March 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

And if the only private school near you is a Mormon indoctrination campus? The stats on how many Americans believe in evolution vs. creationism are already daunting enough, I'd hate to see what they'd look like if the public good was removed entirely from the equation. http://www.gallup.co...ent-design.aspx

And while I agree with Shin about the standardized test focus being an overall detriment, I wouldn't consider it the root of the problem. Poverty, basic funding shortages, overwhelming class size, and worst of all, stubborn stupid parents have all had a tremendous negative effect. I trust the "government" more than I trust parents, yes, since their standards -- as awry as they can be implemented -- are higher and more rational than those of most parents. I DO want children of parents who believe in Intelligent Design to be removed from those parents 8 hours a day, at least given information that contradicts their moron parents' beliefs (whether they ultimately accept it is up to them I guess), and frankly I don't want those parents to have a say in the matter. Because those kids aren't their property, they are fellow citizens, and they have a right to hear the truth from somebody before they have to fend for themselves as adults. Your proposal would lead to more Rick Santorums, not fewer.

Wow...I could not disagree more. The last I checked, freedom of religion was part of the constitution and that means parents should be allowed to send their children to "Mormon indoctrination campuses" or home school them as they see fit. And yes, this will exclude these morons from some jobs as adults, but the truth is religiously indoctrinated citizens can still be productive members of society as engineers, nurses, bus drivers, architects, plumbers, McDonald's managers, entrepreneurs etc., because the vast majority careers will have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not someone has studied evolution. Seriously, because of this issue alone you think that the government should flex that kind of control? An issue that, granted, makes us look stupid to anyone not from the US, but that actually will have little to do with how they "fend for themselves as adults." Man, you scare me sometimes worrywort. Think of it this way, if someone like Santorum became president, then he could use the federal government to dictate that "intelligent design" MUST be taught in all public schools! Fuck that!

Just so it's clear where I stand, I also believe freedom FROM religion is also protected by the constitution, which is why I believe creationism has no place in public schools.

[Una]

 Whenever I hear of these creationist, intelligent design, evolution debates in the USA, I am always struck by how my Canadian CATHOLIC elementary school managed to be able to teach religion class in one period and then switch right over the an evolution unit in the same day.  Sometimes, given the craziness of the debate, I think it was all a dream.  But no! I recently found my old report cards while cleaning out my parents' basement.  In the comments, there was a note my Grade 7 teacher wrote about what a great help I was at building a papier mache cave in our classroom as part of our "prehistoric people" unit in social studies.  I distinctly remember getting shown videos about how Lucy was discovered and getting taught about Homo habilus, Homo erectus, Neanderthals, etc.  Discussions about flint-napping and everything!  I would comment that the sex education was not done very well.  How they managed to get through a unit about sex without once explaining what the act of intercourse entailed I'm not quite sure.  However, to hear that PUBLIC, non-denominal schools are having trouble even teaching basic Darwinian evolution astounds me every time. 

This post has been edited by Una: 11 March 2012 - 01:48 AM

[worry]

Parents are allowed to send their kids to those places now, unfortunately, and we don't have to do away with public education for that to be the case, as Nicodimas suggested (and a hypothetical to which I was specifically replying to) -- though they still have to meet certain standards outside of ones they choose themselves. I dunno what's so scary about saying that even the status quo (which includes the existence of both public and private education), as imperfect as it is, is better than some fractured, standard-less system where the curriculum are parent-determined...even if that means the kids are introduced to facts in spite of their parents' irrational objections. I didn't suggest the government should flex any kind of control that it isn't already. I guess if what I said implies that home-schooling specifically is a problem that should be abolished, I do believe that personally but I'm not looking to codify that any time soon.

I wasn't suggesting that cult members and other irrational people can't make something of themselves, in terms of owning a house and not starving to death. Rick Santorum is a frontrunner in the presidential race, after all. I'm just suggesting their ignorance is hereditary, viral, and corrosive, and there's a public interest in countering it with the presentation of facts...they are free of course to reject those facts. And the fact that most Americans don't believe in evolution DOES hurt more than individuals being wrong about facts, or the US being a laughing stock. How does rejecting the basis for all biological knowledge strike you as just an unfortunate-but-ultimately-harmless mistake of the rugged individual? It might not keep you from being a loving person, or finding a career in any number of fields, but collectively it certainly has a corrosive effect on society at large (for instance, zero legitimate candidates representing the conservative argument honestly or even preparedly). I'm scared that you don't consider that a public interest issue, if that's what you're saying. All that said, it was just meant as one example, not the only example, of why a public education -- with separation of church and state intact, despite what any President Santorum would try to enact, not sure why you think a president would have that power -- is superior to a system where one doesn't exist.