[Path-Shaper]

Khell here, for the first time ever as Path-Shaper.

I just wanted you all to know that.

Know that and fear.

Khell does not like to die day 1.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 19 hours and 56 minutes remaining.

10 Players still alive: Anomandaris, D'riss, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Sukul Anandhu

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Anomandaris, D'riss, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Sukul Anandhu

Tick tock, tick tock.

[Anomandaris]

Definitely think the outsiders are growing restless...

[Anomandaris]

Bent, on 05 January 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

Walking in the desert...


"Water...water....please god, just a drink of water...."


A glint in the sand...surely a mirage....no, its a botlle filled with water and the cap has never been removed!

I take a drink....then quickly spit it out!


"Ice...please God, just one cube of ice!"

Miss you guys, reading along quietly when I have the time. Later.

~Bent

Might I recommend an ice pearl with that? May quench your need permanently.

[Omtose]

Path-Shaper, on 05 January 2012 - 03:38 AM, said:

Khell here, for the first time ever as Path-Shaper.

I just wanted you all to know that.

Know that and fear.

Khell does not like to die day 1.

this will not end well

[Anomandaris]

Ok, just another series of thoughts from a reread through the prior day and a half.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, we know that whatever has appeared in the market has to have been in someone's storage at the start, because no one's had time to make anything.
That helps figure some active roles.

I think Emur was onto something here. I've been looking at the items put on the market all day, and thinking about my own starting storage items. I would hazard we all started with stuff relevant to our roles. Remember how early day 1 we were all speculating on which factions and roles would be in this game (like "oh nah, there will only be soldiers in this game...") Well, I'm starting to think that the answer is staring us in the face. Someone put up magic for sale on day 1. That probably means we have someone with summoner capabilities. We also have seen horses (raiders, soldiers?) and armor (soldiers, warriors) put up for sale. I know I need to get more organized and start monitoring clumps of stuff put up, but I think we can tease out roles from what is put on the market.

Most of the rest of this post is dedicated to Serc (who I still think saved our collective asses with that self vote).

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

For the record, I never advocated a no-lynch, I just said that I wasn't as eager as normal games to lynch, compounded to the fact that I'm not certain what to look for.

Again, in normal games, the "scum" team is the one with the lethal night actions. I have read in my catch-up that an hypothesis told by a few is that the Nepeth woud have a lot of killing roles in their midst, if that's the case then my doubts might not be valid. But if someone can explain where that comes from, I'm all ears.

Those who are using what I said to vote me, I guess, are mostly fear-mongering or just latching to what they see as an easy vote for day 1 when there is not much to go with. Fair enough, I guess I brought that on myself.

Honestly, this is a bit like the day 1 signaling - when was it ever right? You honestly believe that someone from a team everyone is about would say stuff like I did? They would just cruise along and agree with something that is already said and didn't raise suspicions, such as Omtose's recent post, and the second or third who voted for me to make me the candidate for day 1.

I tried to open the discussion about the necessity of a lynch on day 1. I still don't think it's as crucial as normally. I don't think we are going into the night as sheeps in a wolves den. We are relatively few in the game, and we can't afford as many random lynches than in a game of 20+ players.

And on a non-game theory note, the game seem to be the type to get more and more interesting with each passing day, and shooting randomly and early will just make it shorter.

I know that not voting is a touchy subject in mafia, but did anyone else wonder at how fast Serc was attacked and lynched for opening up the discussion? I mean, yes, he was "scummy" (but this is a faction game people....) and he could have helped by explaining some of his own suspicions, but I'm starting to wonder about some of those who laid down quick, weakly-based votes for Serc.

Korvalain, on 04 January 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

Also, something else that bugs me:

Of course we get most of our information from lynches. I never said the opposite. But when did we ever get good information from day 1 lynches?

I never said we should never lynch. I just said maybe not this time on day 1. In normal game, the little information gained by a day 1 lynch is still ok based on the fact that in most probability the person lynched is a RI. But I doubt that in this game someone's role PM says "You're just a hobo with no power who passed out on the street corner. You wake up and hear some noise, and were stupid enough to go and check it out"

And do you think we will have more information for a lynch if we wait for day 2 before we lynch? I don't think we gain really much valuable information from NAs to better choose who might be Nepeth.

The person we lynch will not be RI, but there is a fairly high chance that they are not from your faction and even if that is not relevant in this game it might be good to have that character out of game for the next game.
And in there is also the odd chance that we actually lynch a Nepeth.

For instance, Korv. Typical argument that day one lynch is necessity because we need a shot at the Nepeth (which is the best of his points, esp. considering how the killing power in NAs seems to be with them not the rest of us unless someone has money for that assassination throwing knife) and need the information from the lynch.

Well, we definitely got a lot of information from that lynch, and where is Korv? I mean, there are a couple of day two posts contemplating Serc's feeling of self-importance (a question Korv answers for himself), but where are the ideas, speculation, thoughts on all our newfound information. He seems like he "just wants the truth" but not actually doing much to work it out.

And as a side note, I would point out again that the bazaar is a potential great wealth of information that needs continued mining (not just waiting for another lynch). Also, don't people think that say a thief or raider would have additional information by virtual of what loot they got from someone? I really think there is a lot more information floating around than people are sharing or acting upon....

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

I'm not being voted for what I said, but for a massive over-interpretation of what I tried to discuss by some players who seemed quite happy to just pounce on it. Scumminess or lazyness, I'm not certain.



Omtose's

Omtose, on 04 January 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

I am also quite lost at who to vote. but Serc's "a Day 1 lynch is anever a good lynch" attitude is anyhting but productive.

is a good example. You can see how excited he is at the smell of blood based on his spastic spelling, and his "anever" goes against what I said in my previous 3-4 posts.

Anyways, I won't raise too much hell. As far as winning is concerned, there are worse lynches today for me than me.

Just a quick point out here. I think Serc recognized that in the end, his own person didn't make a difference whether or not the Nepeth reached parity. That was why he considered himself not as bad of a lynch as other non-Nepeth.

Galain, on 04 January 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Galain, on 04 January 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Hmm. Looking at who has votes...

Serc because he alludes to wanting to no-lynch. Omtose because he reiterates what everyone else has been saying. Hmm.

Vote Serc

I'm voting Serc because he seems somewhat scummy. Omtose does seem like he is just trying to sound helpful, but that could be true of someone who is a tad overwhelmed. I know that happened to a few people in D'rek's last game.

I won't be around for time out, unfortunately.

This is what I'm talking about, when I say that someone who is playing carefully would basically only repeat things that have been said before without raising reactions.

Line 2: the two votes and the reason for them. No reason to look somewhere else and to say something original. No mention of Olar Ethil, who also has a vote, because he's not sure why he got his vote and is not bothered to go back and check. Either that or he's not sure and is afraid that saying something not perfectly correct will get a second look from others

Line 4: Vote for me, but not for the reason he said above, because even though no-one yet said that I might not be completely wrong doesn't mean that someone won't in the future, so voting me for that reason means taking a position compared to what I said. Instead I'm just "somewhat scummy", which no-one can argue. Followed by a condescending slight defense for someone, always makes you feel like people will like you when you do something like this.

You're clearly an idiot. I'm catching up and I really hope you got lynched. Would you prefer I just drop a vote without reiterating the reasons? I was part of the original discussion, so don't try to tell me I'm not contributing. I didn't mention Olar Ethil, because 1 of her votes was a joke, the other was because of inactivity. Tapper said earlier that he had a replacement, so I decided to leave her alone for now.

I voted for you for the exact reason I stated above... I didn't put any stock in the snazziest armour bit. I was put off by your one post, then most of your other posts just made you seem more scummy. There was no slight defense of anyone. I was stating why I voted you over Omtose. Everything in my post is completely founded off what I've previously said.

And finally, to the grand finale: Galain. Galain, you did a beautiful job here of summing up what Serc was accusing. You voted (second in line iirc) for someone based on exceptionally weak evidence, in a faction game where we have more complexity than the typical M&P mafia. And even in M&P, you should be smacked about for expecting a vote based on "scummy" with no hard evidence to be satisfactory for the game.

At worst, this type of carelessness is faked and you actually are Nepeth who just wants to winnow out the barriers to your VC. Less worse, but still tactless, you are a non-Nepeth who represents the careless aspect of our team who makes it easier for the minority Nepeth to nail down a victory. Either way, I think you should consider being a little more precise and thoughtful, or perhaps we should dump you via lynch for our own good.

[Anomandaris]

Whew, that's enough for tonight. Way to late and I need sleep. See you all in about, >_< , six hours.

[D'riss]

I've just arrived home from vacation and I'm wiped. I'll have a readthrough done and thoughts posted before timeout though. Good night until then.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

I'm around. I am just looking through seeing what I can find. I've got a couple of suspicions and I am just looking through posts.

[Liosan]

Ok, my suspicions are on Emurlahn. Now, before reading this, there is nothing earth shattering here, but given the overall skill of mafia players on this site, there seldom is. Here is what I found.

Emurlahn adds this in the middle of faction speculation by others, no really addressing what is going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, we know that whatever has appeared in the market has to have been in someone's storage at the start, because no one's had time to make anything.
That helps figure some active roles.

Then he writes this in the middle of lynch/no lynch conversation. Again, it doesn't really address what's going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

What are the CFs going to be like? Someone may have already asked this, but a quick scan didn't turn up the answer.

Here he comes on to lob an easy answer to Eloth's question about the snazzy armor comment.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

The armor is probably for a) a buff to a military unit -or- a required item to use an ability or make a certain thing, like in the workshop etc. Either way it suggests whoever posted the contract is military aspected.

As far as connecting that to Serc, it's a probable as calling Olar Ethil a Thief for stealing Korv's ice cream post.



EDIT: to remove an emoticon that somehow appeared in the middle of my text

Here is some "speculation", but nothing substansive or really opinionated.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

To further this thought, I am surprised no one has purchased any Weapons. This suggests to me that either the person that needs them has already spent their money on the Tax Collector title, or they haven't the funds required yet. I wonder who could have started with 15k denari

I realize that the Bazaar may seem secondary to the actual mafia playing, but it is interesting to me.

More of the same, with an apology for absence.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry I'm lagging, work is being a pain w/ RL drama overlapping, so if someone could just shoot me...


OK, we had a big night that brought non-Nepeth down by 4.

The Djinn looks like a game-buster, so I'm guessing it's not for this turn, but future use.

The armor contract is withdrawn - so that makes me think it was a tool to help get Serc lynched, seems like it worked.

This one interested me because he comes out of nowhere (hasn't posted for a while) and inserts agreement.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes, that makes sense to me.

Then his next comment is about the bazaar, much later.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

So prices on goods keep coming down and someone has bought weapons. Perhaps the Nepeth won't have such success with their next attack (or maybe they got stronger, who knows)

And here is his most substantial post IMO, which still doesn't really offer much of anything. Re-capping other's thoughts and making one observation in which he still doesn't wish to offer an opinion.

Emurlahn, on 05 January 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 04 January 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 46 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Anomandaris, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Serc, Sukul Anandhu, Telas

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Serc ( Kaschan, Galain, Omtose, Korvalain, D'riss, Hood's Path, Sukul Anandhu )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Eloth, Emurlahn, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Serc, Telas

Ok, here is the train, with the exception of Serc on the end with the self-vote.

Not sure how much we can learn from a Day 1 faction train, but there you go.

Kaschan is dead, believed to have been the victim of a game mechanic for starting the train on Serc. The other victims of Nepeth attacks were not present on the train. I won't guess if that is significant or coincidence, just mentioning it here.

Also, there were no other candidates being voted.

EDIT: last line

Yes, this is a faction game and people are tiptoeing carefully as a result, but we DO have a scum team of sorts that wants to stay hidden. Emur's posting reeks of helpful, non-confrontational play which doesn't offer much in the way of real information. It's middle of the road and serves to establish a presence, but that's basically it.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Liosan, on 05 January 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

Ok, my suspicions are on Emurlahn. Now, before reading this, there is nothing earth shattering here, but given the overall skill of mafia players on this site, there seldom is. Here is what I found.

Emurlahn adds this in the middle of faction speculation by others, no really addressing what is going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, we know that whatever has appeared in the market has to have been in someone's storage at the start, because no one's had time to make anything.
That helps figure some active roles.

Then he writes this in the middle of lynch/no lynch conversation. Again, it doesn't really address what's going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

What are the CFs going to be like? Someone may have already asked this, but a quick scan didn't turn up the answer.

Here he comes on to lob an easy answer to Eloth's question about the snazzy armor comment.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

The armor is probably for a) a buff to a military unit -or- a required item to use an ability or make a certain thing, like in the workshop etc. Either way it suggests whoever posted the contract is military aspected.

As far as connecting that to Serc, it's a probable as calling Olar Ethil a Thief for stealing Korv's ice cream post.



EDIT: to remove an emoticon that somehow appeared in the middle of my text

Here is some "speculation", but nothing substansive or really opinionated.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

To further this thought, I am surprised no one has purchased any Weapons. This suggests to me that either the person that needs them has already spent their money on the Tax Collector title, or they haven't the funds required yet. I wonder who could have started with 15k denari

I realize that the Bazaar may seem secondary to the actual mafia playing, but it is interesting to me.

More of the same, with an apology for absence.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry I'm lagging, work is being a pain w/ RL drama overlapping, so if someone could just shoot me...


OK, we had a big night that brought non-Nepeth down by 4.

The Djinn looks like a game-buster, so I'm guessing it's not for this turn, but future use.

The armor contract is withdrawn - so that makes me think it was a tool to help get Serc lynched, seems like it worked.

This one interested me because he comes out of nowhere (hasn't posted for a while) and inserts agreement.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes, that makes sense to me.

Then his next comment is about the bazaar, much later.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

So prices on goods keep coming down and someone has bought weapons. Perhaps the Nepeth won't have such success with their next attack (or maybe they got stronger, who knows)

And here is his most substantial post IMO, which still doesn't really offer much of anything. Re-capping other's thoughts and making one observation in which he still doesn't wish to offer an opinion.

Emurlahn, on 05 January 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 04 January 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 46 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Anomandaris, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Serc, Sukul Anandhu, Telas

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Serc ( Kaschan, Galain, Omtose, Korvalain, D'riss, Hood's Path, Sukul Anandhu )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Eloth, Emurlahn, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Serc, Telas

Ok, here is the train, with the exception of Serc on the end with the self-vote.

Not sure how much we can learn from a Day 1 faction train, but there you go.

Kaschan is dead, believed to have been the victim of a game mechanic for starting the train on Serc. The other victims of Nepeth attacks were not present on the train. I won't guess if that is significant or coincidence, just mentioning it here.

Also, there were no other candidates being voted.

EDIT: last line

Yes, this is a faction game and people are tiptoeing carefully as a result, but we DO have a scum team of sorts that wants to stay hidden. Emur's posting reeks of helpful, non-confrontational play which doesn't offer much in the way of real information. It's middle of the road and serves to establish a presence, but that's basically it.

On my extensive catch up and read through I have absolutely no read on Emur.

Points out Olar's theft, Mentions Bazaar alot, theorises on armour, and weapons often.

Talks about bazaar and armour and weapons that is all.

He is non confrontational and is easily coasting through the game.

[Korvalain]

I think that apart from all the things already mentioned it is also noteworthy that the train on Serc picked up when HP changed his vote to him and thus removed his vote from Omtose, who was the only alternative to Serc that came up during day 1.

[Korvalain]

Sukul Ankhadu, on 05 January 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Liosan, on 05 January 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

Ok, my suspicions are on Emurlahn. Now, before reading this, there is nothing earth shattering here, but given the overall skill of mafia players on this site, there seldom is. Here is what I found.

Emurlahn adds this in the middle of faction speculation by others, no really addressing what is going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, we know that whatever has appeared in the market has to have been in someone's storage at the start, because no one's had time to make anything.
That helps figure some active roles.

Then he writes this in the middle of lynch/no lynch conversation. Again, it doesn't really address what's going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

What are the CFs going to be like? Someone may have already asked this, but a quick scan didn't turn up the answer.

Here he comes on to lob an easy answer to Eloth's question about the snazzy armor comment.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

The armor is probably for a) a buff to a military unit -or- a required item to use an ability or make a certain thing, like in the workshop etc. Either way it suggests whoever posted the contract is military aspected.

As far as connecting that to Serc, it's a probable as calling Olar Ethil a Thief for stealing Korv's ice cream post.



EDIT: to remove an emoticon that somehow appeared in the middle of my text

Here is some "speculation", but nothing substansive or really opinionated.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

To further this thought, I am surprised no one has purchased any Weapons. This suggests to me that either the person that needs them has already spent their money on the Tax Collector title, or they haven't the funds required yet. I wonder who could have started with 15k denari

I realize that the Bazaar may seem secondary to the actual mafia playing, but it is interesting to me.

More of the same, with an apology for absence.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry I'm lagging, work is being a pain w/ RL drama overlapping, so if someone could just shoot me...


OK, we had a big night that brought non-Nepeth down by 4.

The Djinn looks like a game-buster, so I'm guessing it's not for this turn, but future use.

The armor contract is withdrawn - so that makes me think it was a tool to help get Serc lynched, seems like it worked.

This one interested me because he comes out of nowhere (hasn't posted for a while) and inserts agreement.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes, that makes sense to me.

Then his next comment is about the bazaar, much later.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

So prices on goods keep coming down and someone has bought weapons. Perhaps the Nepeth won't have such success with their next attack (or maybe they got stronger, who knows)

And here is his most substantial post IMO, which still doesn't really offer much of anything. Re-capping other's thoughts and making one observation in which he still doesn't wish to offer an opinion.

Emurlahn, on 05 January 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 04 January 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 46 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Anomandaris, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Serc, Sukul Anandhu, Telas

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Serc ( Kaschan, Galain, Omtose, Korvalain, D'riss, Hood's Path, Sukul Anandhu )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Eloth, Emurlahn, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Serc, Telas

Ok, here is the train, with the exception of Serc on the end with the self-vote.

Not sure how much we can learn from a Day 1 faction train, but there you go.

Kaschan is dead, believed to have been the victim of a game mechanic for starting the train on Serc. The other victims of Nepeth attacks were not present on the train. I won't guess if that is significant or coincidence, just mentioning it here.

Also, there were no other candidates being voted.

EDIT: last line

Yes, this is a faction game and people are tiptoeing carefully as a result, but we DO have a scum team of sorts that wants to stay hidden. Emur's posting reeks of helpful, non-confrontational play which doesn't offer much in the way of real information. It's middle of the road and serves to establish a presence, but that's basically it.

On my extensive catch up and read through I have absolutely no read on Emur.

Points out Olar's theft, Mentions Bazaar alot, theorises on armour, and weapons often.

Talks about bazaar and armour and weapons that is all.

He is non confrontational and is easily coasting through the game.

With all that talk about the bazaar and weapons it seems he is very focused on that kind of thing. Maybe his role is concentrated on that.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Whilst reading through I have some thoughts as well. First of all Ano. He makes the steal comment, when discussing factions, plays it down to two factions and the qadi - mentions khanate and nepeth and wild card.

He then goes on to berate Eloth once dead about knowing about other factions but keeping it to himself. Yet I believe Ano is not Nepeth, not Khanate and obviously not Qadi. So although it PI's him in my eyes it also casts doubt on his motivation to help town find scum and win, I think he is playing for his own reasons and not the collective.

I thought he is definately a thief/raider but he mentions khanate and no other factions so I thought thief but looking at his opening post I think that is what he wants us to believe as that would indicate he is innocent and not a Nepeth player. If he is Nepeth and he is in this for the long all then he has me convinced he's a thief.


Foolish day one fun comments regarding thieving, then mentions eloths faction break down which is similar to his own.

Attacks Galain and Korvalian yet Agrees with Emurlahn who Liosan is now making a case upon.

I'd be willing to vote for Emur to find out what faction he is in and see what connections there are.

There are not many cases out there at the moment and by not being vocal on thread people are giving the Nepeth an easy time of it.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

Korvalain, on 05 January 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

Sukul Ankhadu, on 05 January 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Liosan, on 05 January 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

Ok, my suspicions are on Emurlahn. Now, before reading this, there is nothing earth shattering here, but given the overall skill of mafia players on this site, there seldom is. Here is what I found.

Emurlahn adds this in the middle of faction speculation by others, no really addressing what is going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, we know that whatever has appeared in the market has to have been in someone's storage at the start, because no one's had time to make anything.
That helps figure some active roles.

Then he writes this in the middle of lynch/no lynch conversation. Again, it doesn't really address what's going on.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

What are the CFs going to be like? Someone may have already asked this, but a quick scan didn't turn up the answer.

Here he comes on to lob an easy answer to Eloth's question about the snazzy armor comment.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

The armor is probably for a) a buff to a military unit -or- a required item to use an ability or make a certain thing, like in the workshop etc. Either way it suggests whoever posted the contract is military aspected.

As far as connecting that to Serc, it's a probable as calling Olar Ethil a Thief for stealing Korv's ice cream post.



EDIT: to remove an emoticon that somehow appeared in the middle of my text

Here is some "speculation", but nothing substansive or really opinionated.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 12:14 AM, said:

To further this thought, I am surprised no one has purchased any Weapons. This suggests to me that either the person that needs them has already spent their money on the Tax Collector title, or they haven't the funds required yet. I wonder who could have started with 15k denari

I realize that the Bazaar may seem secondary to the actual mafia playing, but it is interesting to me.

More of the same, with an apology for absence.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Sorry I'm lagging, work is being a pain w/ RL drama overlapping, so if someone could just shoot me...


OK, we had a big night that brought non-Nepeth down by 4.

The Djinn looks like a game-buster, so I'm guessing it's not for this turn, but future use.

The armor contract is withdrawn - so that makes me think it was a tool to help get Serc lynched, seems like it worked.

This one interested me because he comes out of nowhere (hasn't posted for a while) and inserts agreement.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 05:09 PM, said:

Yes, that makes sense to me.

Then his next comment is about the bazaar, much later.

Emurlahn, on 04 January 2012 - 06:43 PM, said:

So prices on goods keep coming down and someone has bought weapons. Perhaps the Nepeth won't have such success with their next attack (or maybe they got stronger, who knows)

And here is his most substantial post IMO, which still doesn't really offer much of anything. Re-capping other's thoughts and making one observation in which he still doesn't wish to offer an opinion.

Emurlahn, on 05 January 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 04 January 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

It is Day 1. 46 minutes remaining

14 Players still alive: Anomandaris, D'riss, Eloth, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Kaschan, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Serc, Sukul Anandhu, Telas

8 votes to lynch, 7 votes to go to night.

7 Votes for Serc ( Kaschan, Galain, Omtose, Korvalain, D'riss, Hood's Path, Sukul Anandhu )

Players not voted: Anomandaris, Eloth, Emurlahn, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Serc, Telas

Ok, here is the train, with the exception of Serc on the end with the self-vote.

Not sure how much we can learn from a Day 1 faction train, but there you go.

Kaschan is dead, believed to have been the victim of a game mechanic for starting the train on Serc. The other victims of Nepeth attacks were not present on the train. I won't guess if that is significant or coincidence, just mentioning it here.

Also, there were no other candidates being voted.

EDIT: last line

Yes, this is a faction game and people are tiptoeing carefully as a result, but we DO have a scum team of sorts that wants to stay hidden. Emur's posting reeks of helpful, non-confrontational play which doesn't offer much in the way of real information. It's middle of the road and serves to establish a presence, but that's basically it.

On my extensive catch up and read through I have absolutely no read on Emur.

Points out Olar's theft, Mentions Bazaar alot, theorises on armour, and weapons often.

Talks about bazaar and armour and weapons that is all.

He is non confrontational and is easily coasting through the game.

With all that talk about the bazaar and weapons it seems he is very focused on that kind of thing. Maybe his role is concentrated on that.

Sometimes when a person has a role then they talk about that role more than others. He is very focused on this aspect of the game which draws my gaze when I look upon the thread. Everyone has their cards close to their chest at the moment and it is hard to get a good read on most people.

[Liosan]

People always hold their cards to their chest in faction games, but Emur's lack of real commitment to anything at all speaks of someone being extra careful, which of course piqued my interest.

[Sukul Ankhadu]

PS can we have a time update please? I have another few hours where i'll be in and around but then I think I'll be away for the final push towards day end.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 2. 11 hours and 35 minutes remaining

10 Players still alive: Anomandaris, D'riss, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Sukul Anandhu

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Anomandaris, D'riss, Emurlahn, Galain, Hood's Path, Korvalain, Liosan, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Sukul Anandhu

[Anomandaris]

Ah SA....sigh

My responses are within the quote.

Sukul Ankhadu, on 05 January 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

Whilst reading through I have some thoughts as well. First of all Ano. He makes the steal comment, when discussing factions, plays it down to two factions and the qadi - mentions khanate and nepeth and wild card. Any quote for this statement? The one liner to which you refer (quoted below) was my response to the speculation of OE and I being thieves. I did flesh out my discussion of factions, guessing there were only the Houses, Khanate, Nepeth, and Qadi. I even went so far as to assign number values to them (Didn't talk about the second quote below SA. Seems kind of important...)

He then goes on to berate Eloth once dead about knowing about other factions but keeping it to himself. Yet I believe Ano is not Nepeth, not Khanate and obviously not Qadi. So although it PI's him in my eyes it also casts doubt on his motivation to help town find scum and win, I think he is playing for his own reasons and not the collective. Interesting statement considering I was saying something similar about Eloth, namely that he was purposefully misleading us despite this game not being about faction vs faction but everyone vs the Nepeth. As for my own helpfulness, can you give me some quotes that indicate where I haven't shown interest in helping, as you put it, "town." I thought I've been fairly thoughtful in our search for Nepeth.

I thought he is definately a thief/raider but he mentions khanate and no other factions (wait, didn't you say I've been mentioning houses, wild cards, qadi....?) so I thought thief but looking at his opening post I think that is what he wants us to believe (RLY? as I said, it was an opportunistic joke early Day 1 in mockery of OE's ice cream theft. i'm not sure where you see me pushing the hints at being a thief) as that would indicate he is innocent and not a Nepeth player. If he is Nepeth and he is in this for the long all then he has me convinced he's a thief.


So to summarize, I am a self-serving thief with no interest in anyone but myself and my beautiful skin.


Foolish day one fun comments regarding thieving, then mentions eloths faction break down which is similar to his own. Not really a good summary of my Day 1 activity, but, meh, we've already established your penchant for "thoroughness" [/sarcasm] in an earlier post of mine.

Attacks Galain and Korvalian (you forgot that I attacked you even earlier with your joyful "look at all the non-Nepeth deaths! this is sooo cool") yet Agrees with Emurlahn who Liosan is now making a case upon. Agreed with one comment Emur made. Not really the same as buddying up with the dude.

I'd be willing to vote for Emur to find out what faction he is in and see what connections there are.

There are not many cases out there at the moment and by not being vocal on thread people are giving the Nepeth an easy time of it.

Ok, so basically SA you spend this whole post to say I'm selfish, unhelpful and uninterested in anyone but me, and PI. You start your post with "First of all," indicating you've been thinking of others besides me, but so far the only other posts I've seen since then are "everyone is playing so cautiously, can't get a read" and "PS, time update?"

As I said at the start of the day, I am watching you closely SA. You still aren't non-Nepeth to me so far.

Quote

it also seems silly to have 2 thieves in a power struggle between the houses, khanate, and nepeth. I was thinking more of a three way struggle between these factions with another small wild card faction thrown in for kicks (would work well with a 14 person game)

Quote

I think this rules out the presence of Delat ibn Adaephon, Merchant-Prince in this game as well.

So I agree that of all the frameworks I've seen thus far, I like HP's the best. If there are two Houses, equally represented, I would expect that team to be an even number size (like 6). The White Foals, considering it's a small part of a faction, probably has a number equivalent or slightly bigger than one House (say 3). And we have most likely someone playing the Qadi of Loathing (1). That leaves about (4) roles for the Nepeth, which I agree are more than likely to be military, probably including on of the big cheese military roles.



I also think consideration should go into the expenses of the game. We all probably have different starting amounts of dinari, and thus massive purchases like the Tax Collector title tell us that we have some powerful contenders in this game. Moreover, someone will know approximately how much everyone else has when they are taxed as the wealthiest of this group. I'm not sure how this will help us locate Nepeth, but I am putting forth solidarity with the idea that looking at purchases could be useful.

[Galain]

Anomandaris, on 05 January 2012 - 05:20 AM, said:

Ok, just another series of thoughts from a reread through the prior day and a half.

Emurlahn, on 03 January 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

Well, we know that whatever has appeared in the market has to have been in someone's storage at the start, because no one's had time to make anything.
That helps figure some active roles.

I think Emur was onto something here. I've been looking at the items put on the market all day, and thinking about my own starting storage items. I would hazard we all started with stuff relevant to our roles. Remember how early day 1 we were all speculating on which factions and roles would be in this game (like "oh nah, there will only be soldiers in this game...") Well, I'm starting to think that the answer is staring us in the face. Someone put up magic for sale on day 1. That probably means we have someone with summoner capabilities. We also have seen horses (raiders, soldiers?) and armor (soldiers, warriors) put up for sale. I know I need to get more organized and start monitoring clumps of stuff put up, but I think we can tease out roles from what is put on the market.

Most of the rest of this post is dedicated to Serc (who I still think saved our collective asses with that self vote).

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

For the record, I never advocated a no-lynch, I just said that I wasn't as eager as normal games to lynch, compounded to the fact that I'm not certain what to look for.

Again, in normal games, the "scum" team is the one with the lethal night actions. I have read in my catch-up that an hypothesis told by a few is that the Nepeth woud have a lot of killing roles in their midst, if that's the case then my doubts might not be valid. But if someone can explain where that comes from, I'm all ears.

Those who are using what I said to vote me, I guess, are mostly fear-mongering or just latching to what they see as an easy vote for day 1 when there is not much to go with. Fair enough, I guess I brought that on myself.

Honestly, this is a bit like the day 1 signaling - when was it ever right? You honestly believe that someone from a team everyone is about would say stuff like I did? They would just cruise along and agree with something that is already said and didn't raise suspicions, such as Omtose's recent post, and the second or third who voted for me to make me the candidate for day 1.

I tried to open the discussion about the necessity of a lynch on day 1. I still don't think it's as crucial as normally. I don't think we are going into the night as sheeps in a wolves den. We are relatively few in the game, and we can't afford as many random lynches than in a game of 20+ players.

And on a non-game theory note, the game seem to be the type to get more and more interesting with each passing day, and shooting randomly and early will just make it shorter.

I know that not voting is a touchy subject in mafia, but did anyone else wonder at how fast Serc was attacked and lynched for opening up the discussion? I mean, yes, he was "scummy" (but this is a faction game people....) and he could have helped by explaining some of his own suspicions, but I'm starting to wonder about some of those who laid down quick, weakly-based votes for Serc.

Korvalain, on 04 January 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 06:08 AM, said:

Also, something else that bugs me:

Of course we get most of our information from lynches. I never said the opposite. But when did we ever get good information from day 1 lynches?

I never said we should never lynch. I just said maybe not this time on day 1. In normal game, the little information gained by a day 1 lynch is still ok based on the fact that in most probability the person lynched is a RI. But I doubt that in this game someone's role PM says "You're just a hobo with no power who passed out on the street corner. You wake up and hear some noise, and were stupid enough to go and check it out"

And do you think we will have more information for a lynch if we wait for day 2 before we lynch? I don't think we gain really much valuable information from NAs to better choose who might be Nepeth.

The person we lynch will not be RI, but there is a fairly high chance that they are not from your faction and even if that is not relevant in this game it might be good to have that character out of game for the next game.
And in there is also the odd chance that we actually lynch a Nepeth.

For instance, Korv. Typical argument that day one lynch is necessity because we need a shot at the Nepeth (which is the best of his points, esp. considering how the killing power in NAs seems to be with them not the rest of us unless someone has money for that assassination throwing knife) and need the information from the lynch.

Well, we definitely got a lot of information from that lynch, and where is Korv? I mean, there are a couple of day two posts contemplating Serc's feeling of self-importance (a question Korv answers for himself), but where are the ideas, speculation, thoughts on all our newfound information. He seems like he "just wants the truth" but not actually doing much to work it out.

And as a side note, I would point out again that the bazaar is a potential great wealth of information that needs continued mining (not just waiting for another lynch). Also, don't people think that say a thief or raider would have additional information by virtual of what loot they got from someone? I really think there is a lot more information floating around than people are sharing or acting upon....

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

I'm not being voted for what I said, but for a massive over-interpretation of what I tried to discuss by some players who seemed quite happy to just pounce on it. Scumminess or lazyness, I'm not certain.



Omtose's

Omtose, on 04 January 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

I am also quite lost at who to vote. but Serc's "a Day 1 lynch is anever a good lynch" attitude is anyhting but productive.

is a good example. You can see how excited he is at the smell of blood based on his spastic spelling, and his "anever" goes against what I said in my previous 3-4 posts.

Anyways, I won't raise too much hell. As far as winning is concerned, there are worse lynches today for me than me.

Just a quick point out here. I think Serc recognized that in the end, his own person didn't make a difference whether or not the Nepeth reached parity. That was why he considered himself not as bad of a lynch as other non-Nepeth.

Galain, on 04 January 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

Serc, on 04 January 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Galain, on 04 January 2012 - 04:32 AM, said:

Hmm. Looking at who has votes...

Serc because he alludes to wanting to no-lynch. Omtose because he reiterates what everyone else has been saying. Hmm.

Vote Serc

I'm voting Serc because he seems somewhat scummy. Omtose does seem like he is just trying to sound helpful, but that could be true of someone who is a tad overwhelmed. I know that happened to a few people in D'rek's last game.

I won't be around for time out, unfortunately.

This is what I'm talking about, when I say that someone who is playing carefully would basically only repeat things that have been said before without raising reactions.

Line 2: the two votes and the reason for them. No reason to look somewhere else and to say something original. No mention of Olar Ethil, who also has a vote, because he's not sure why he got his vote and is not bothered to go back and check. Either that or he's not sure and is afraid that saying something not perfectly correct will get a second look from others

Line 4: Vote for me, but not for the reason he said above, because even though no-one yet said that I might not be completely wrong doesn't mean that someone won't in the future, so voting me for that reason means taking a position compared to what I said. Instead I'm just "somewhat scummy", which no-one can argue. Followed by a condescending slight defense for someone, always makes you feel like people will like you when you do something like this.

You're clearly an idiot. I'm catching up and I really hope you got lynched. Would you prefer I just drop a vote without reiterating the reasons? I was part of the original discussion, so don't try to tell me I'm not contributing. I didn't mention Olar Ethil, because 1 of her votes was a joke, the other was because of inactivity. Tapper said earlier that he had a replacement, so I decided to leave her alone for now.

I voted for you for the exact reason I stated above... I didn't put any stock in the snazziest armour bit. I was put off by your one post, then most of your other posts just made you seem more scummy. There was no slight defense of anyone. I was stating why I voted you over Omtose. Everything in my post is completely founded off what I've previously said.

And finally, to the grand finale: Galain. Galain, you did a beautiful job here of summing up what Serc was accusing. You voted (second in line iirc) for someone based on exceptionally weak evidence, in a faction game where we have more complexity than the typical M&P mafia. And even in M&P, you should be smacked about for expecting a vote based on "scummy" with no hard evidence to be satisfactory for the game.

At worst, this type of carelessness is faked and you actually are Nepeth who just wants to winnow out the barriers to your VC. Less worse, but still tactless, you are a non-Nepeth who represents the careless aspect of our team who makes it easier for the minority Nepeth to nail down a victory. Either way, I think you should consider being a little more precise and thoughtful, or perhaps we should dump you via lynch for our own good.

I still stand beside my idea that votes are needed for the non-nepeth factions to achieve victory. I was leaving and wouldn't be around before the day timed out. So I put my vote on the person that made the most sense. I disagreed with Serc's advocation that a no lynch could be a course of action benifiting the non-nepeth. His reaction to me questioning that didn't lead me to feel any more confident about his identity as a non-nepeth. I made the (subjectively) correct vote in this situation.

I think you are trying to debase me as a player, and I'm not sure why.