[Omtose]

Tennes, on 29 November 2011 - 05:31 PM, said:

No i am far from convinced of the Thyr case as it is.
Its all stems from a weirdly worded post that could (or could just as easily not) be a slip up.
And even it it was a slip up he could have just as easily been a roled inno as scum.

While i agree that his play is somewhat erratic.
And maybe a bit strange....i still dont see that as a sign of guilt in of itself.

however.
What could be the case is that perhaps the people pushing for the kessoh lynch...did so in order to misdirect us from a thyr lynch.
That i can agree with.
So my thinking "yesterday" that HP's symping was too good to be true was most certainly correct.
But what if we take that a bit further?

What if HP was correct in his suspicions of Galain and Atrahal...at least half correct.
Not that they where the killers.
But that they are symps.
Or maybe one killer and a symp following his lead.

Thyr makes a mistake, and these guys finger another player with a fairly decent case on someone else.
And viola they derailed thyrs lynch with the help of unwitting folks such as myself who bought into their decent case.

It stands to reason that a symp is not going to put forth a crap case in order to redirect attention.
He needs a relatively good one.

I agree with this. There is zero chance that paired killers that have off thread comm are going to come on thread and make a case on the same person. Also, I find it more likely that the killer made the first weaker case and the symp, following his lead, went with the more elaborate drawn out case. I think this is a legit point by Tennes.

[Rashan]

Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Heh, I was all set give my suspicions on Tiam, and then he gets NK'd. His quotes were so middle of the road and his vote on Kesso looked suspicious as well.. anyway...

I don't see much in the Thyr "case" regarding that misquote or PM or whatever you want to call it. The reactions afterwards have been interesting though.

Emur is ringing some bells though. First he says this (all underlines/italics are mine):

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

Kesso was inno. Hmm. Can't say I'm surprised, day 1 lynched rarely turn out scum.

I have to leave briefly, but I'll be here most of the day.

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

Why are people acting like they didn't expect Kesso to be scum? Then why the fuck did you vote for him? That's scummy talking. There was a point when kesso vs thyr was pretty close. I suppose that excludes thyr

Does it seem like it's 2 different people posting? I mean just 1 page earlier he isn't surprised that Kesso is inno, and then he bitches at people for saying that they thought he was going to be inno and voting for them. Which is exactly what he did and then he goes on to call them scum?!?!

vote Emurhlan

for talking out of both sides of your mouth.

EDIT: Firs--> First

To provide a bit of context, which you may have lost while fuming madly, Emurlahn was voting Thyr until the very last moment, when a train-shift was impossible. So, it is not like he was shovelling coal into the hungry mouth of the lynch trains engine in order to achieve ramming speed. Still, nice conenction you brought up.

[Omtose]

Also, sorry about the avatar change. But I always see Telas when I looked at my old avatar, and really it was very unsuitable for the Warren of Ice.

[Omtose]

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:59 PM, said:

Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Heh, I was all set give my suspicions on Tiam, and then he gets NK'd. His quotes were so middle of the road and his vote on Kesso looked suspicious as well.. anyway...

I don't see much in the Thyr "case" regarding that misquote or PM or whatever you want to call it. The reactions afterwards have been interesting though.

Emur is ringing some bells though. First he says this (all underlines/italics are mine):

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

Kesso was inno. Hmm. Can't say I'm surprised, day 1 lynched rarely turn out scum.

I have to leave briefly, but I'll be here most of the day.

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

Why are people acting like they didn't expect Kesso to be scum? Then why the fuck did you vote for him? That's scummy talking. There was a point when kesso vs thyr was pretty close. I suppose that excludes thyr

Does it seem like it's 2 different people posting? I mean just 1 page earlier he isn't surprised that Kesso is inno, and then he bitches at people for saying that they thought he was going to be inno and voting for them. Which is exactly what he did and then he goes on to call them scum?!?!

vote Emurhlan

for talking out of both sides of your mouth.

EDIT: Firs--> First

To provide a bit of context, which you may have lost while fuming madly, Emurlahn was voting Thyr until the very last moment, when a train-shift was impossible. So, it is not like he was shovelling coal into the hungry mouth of the lynch trains engine in order to achieve ramming speed. Still, nice conenction you brought up.

I understand that you need to get a lynch day 1. I would have done the same thing. Whats fishy is that he said he expected Kesso to be inno. Then 1 hour later comes back and says that he can't believe people are coming on saying how they expected him to be inno and that thats scummy. By his own definition he is scummy.

[Rashan]

Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 05:55 PM, said:

Tennes, on 29 November 2011 - 05:31 PM, said:

No i am far from convinced of the Thyr case as it is.
Its all stems from a weirdly worded post that could (or could just as easily not) be a slip up.
And even it it was a slip up he could have just as easily been a roled inno as scum.

While i agree that his play is somewhat erratic.
And maybe a bit strange....i still dont see that as a sign of guilt in of itself.

however.
What could be the case is that perhaps the people pushing for the kessoh lynch...did so in order to misdirect us from a thyr lynch.
That i can agree with.
So my thinking "yesterday" that HP's symping was too good to be true was most certainly correct.
But what if we take that a bit further?

What if HP was correct in his suspicions of Galain and Atrahal...at least half correct.
Not that they where the killers.
But that they are symps.
Or maybe one killer and a symp following his lead.

Thyr makes a mistake, and these guys finger another player with a fairly decent case on someone else.
And viola they derailed thyrs lynch with the help of unwitting folks such as myself who bought into their decent case.

It stands to reason that a symp is not going to put forth a crap case in order to redirect attention.
He needs a relatively good one.

I agree with this. There is zero chance that paired killers that have off thread comm are going to come on thread and make a case on the same person. Also, I find it more likely that the killer made the first weaker case and the symp, following his lead, went with the more elaborate drawn out case. I think this is a legit point by Tennes.

I find a killer making a day 1 case odd to begin with. Presenting a case day 1 will lead to attention and to the chance of your case backfiring. I do think there will be a killer on the train, but not for the opening stages apart perhaps from the early joke vote. In that case, the symp might have made a case on the target of said vote in order to signal his masters that he's on their side.

[Rashan]

Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 06:02 PM, said:

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:59 PM, said:

Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Heh, I was all set give my suspicions on Tiam, and then he gets NK'd. His quotes were so middle of the road and his vote on Kesso looked suspicious as well.. anyway...

I don't see much in the Thyr "case" regarding that misquote or PM or whatever you want to call it. The reactions afterwards have been interesting though.

Emur is ringing some bells though. First he says this (all underlines/italics are mine):

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

Kesso was inno. Hmm. Can't say I'm surprised, day 1 lynched rarely turn out scum.

I have to leave briefly, but I'll be here most of the day.

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

Why are people acting like they didn't expect Kesso to be scum? Then why the fuck did you vote for him? That's scummy talking. There was a point when kesso vs thyr was pretty close. I suppose that excludes thyr

Does it seem like it's 2 different people posting? I mean just 1 page earlier he isn't surprised that Kesso is inno, and then he bitches at people for saying that they thought he was going to be inno and voting for them. Which is exactly what he did and then he goes on to call them scum?!?!

vote Emurhlan

for talking out of both sides of your mouth.

EDIT: Firs--> First

To provide a bit of context, which you may have lost while fuming madly, Emurlahn was voting Thyr until the very last moment, when a train-shift was impossible. So, it is not like he was shovelling coal into the hungry mouth of the lynch trains engine in order to achieve ramming speed. Still, nice conenction you brought up.

I understand that you need to get a lynch day 1. I would have done the same thing. Whats fishy is that he said he expected Kesso to be inno. Then 1 hour later comes back and says that he can't believe people are coming on saying how they expected him to be inno and that thats scummy. By his own definition he is scummy.

Not disputing that. Just want to provide the opinion that in my case, it is more odd if someone who was 3rd or 4th vote on the train comes on and says "I didn';t think he was scum" than it is when the hammer at 30 minutes before deadline does it.


Wow, I'm really into devil's advocate mode today.

[Thyrllan]

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 05:43 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

doesn't a slip-up have to somehow involve something potentially incriminating? Not that it was a "slip-up" in the sense of supposed to have been to PS (or anyone else, no I do not have off-thread comms), but even if it were, what was I supposedly slipping up about? Oh noes my character has a long name?

Actually, now that I think about it, Hojo is only two syllables. Unlikely that someone would have a 14 syllable name if they were a Hojo unless their first name was an absolute monster...hmm, I shall have to think about this.

So, now you are convinced he does have a 14 syllable name? :facepalm:
Imho, you take things a tiny bit too literally and as I said above, he might lie about it and actually have a name 4 syllables long. Which makes Hojo an option, then. Or just a load of them, and he could be anyone. Which is my personal opinion of this matter. Not even Hideyoshi Toyotomi or Anayama Nobukimi or Hakikano Masatsugu have that many syllables (and before you ask: the last two are Takeda generals, and it is highly unlikely the Takeda feature in this game).

I already gave an example of a 14-syllable sengoku name (one of Ieyasu's before he changes to Tokugawa). Yukimura's full name is really long too, it might be 14 (especially after he changes to Toyotomi). It's rare but there are some. Of course, assuming I was being literal in my first game is like assuming Emurlahn MUST have a tea-related role because his 2nd and 3rd posts were offering it. And hey, Meanas says "fellow Shogun" in his first post, so he MUST BE THE SHOGUN OMG GIANT SLIP-UP!!!

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

doesn't a slip-up have to somehow involve something potentially incriminating? Not that it was a "slip-up" in the sense of supposed to have been to PS (or anyone else, no I do not have off-thread comms), but even if it were, what was I supposedly slipping up about? Oh noes my character has a long name?

I always figured it was intentional and roleplay. 14 syllables in two names kind of precludes Hojo as a familyname so at its worst it might be a bit of a red herring from scum, but hey, it is not like anyone is going to discount a case on you because you once said on day 1 that you had a name that has more syllables than any Hojo on wiki has. Nor does it add up to Ashikaga Matamoto, either. Also, every single Rot3K game featured people moaning about their name on day 1, (or on any other day when they lost track of who appeared where in which story).

Exactly! I had to deal with everyone else bitching about the chinese names for 9 games, and now you guys get all mad at me for joking about the japenese names when I finally get the opportunity?!

[Emurlahn]

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

Why are people acting like they didn't expect Kesso to be scum? Then why the fuck did you vote for him? That's scummy talking. There was a point when kesso vs thyr was pretty close. I suppose that excludes thyr

All true. The answer you're going to get is 'we need the info'. And/or: 'there was no alternative'. As well as everyone being scared of being associated as a symp in case the lynch did not go through, of course.


But, ehm, just to be obnoxious and dumb (I'm awfully good at both) what does 'that' exclude Thyr from? Being scum?If so, that's jumping to conclusions, good sir. And not just regular jumping, oh no... it is more like base jumping from an F15 Eagle unto the world's biggest trampoline to reach for the moon.

I was excluding thyr from my statement about people who said that it was unsurprising that Kesso was innocent. Due to the fact that the other major train was on him.

[Omtose]

Just want to get the train up so it's easily findable for reference. (More for me than anyone) . I started it where we were at 3 vs. 3

Path-Shaper, on 29 November 2011 - 06:43 AM, said:

It is Day 1, 8 hours and 30 minutes are left in the day.

17 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Kessobahn, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan, Tiamatha

9 votes to lynch, 9 to go to night.

1 vote Galain: Rashan
1 vote Tennes: Tiamatha
1 vote Rashan: Spite
3 vote Thyrllan: Emurlahn, Mockra, Kessobahn
1 vote Mockra: Osseric
3 votes Kesso: Thryllan, Atrahal, Galain
1 vote Atrahal: Hood's Path



17 Players still alive,

Players not voting
Anomandaris, Gamelon,, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Tennes

Ano makes a good point about HP here.

Anomandaris, on 29 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

well a lo of two and fro on day 1. Interesting that people say i was interacting with galain and rashan when someone voted for me and another voted for them and I hadnt nor did post since. Early cases are always hard to fathom, and day 1 when people havent really started make that more so.

The triple vote was very strange, people seem to forget that no matter if you are town or scum you should always try at least to look inno. Strange voting behaviour never looks like an inno tactic.

3 vote Thyrllan: Emurlahn, Mockra, Kessobahn

3 votes Kesso: Thryllan, Atrahal, Galain

1 vote Atrahal: Hood's Path

This voting also looks highly suspect given that three people are voting for kesso and both mockra and kesso come on to vote thyrllan while hp comes on and builds against atrahal with a case built on more than one player voting for another player within a certain time frame. Though i dont find thyrllan or kesso especially suspicious by their content the division of votes at what is generally a turning point phase of the day makes me think there is something in this.

vote kessobahn

The atrahal and thyrllan votes feel more like a way to counteract this train than an actual case built upon suspicious activity.

Good justifiacation for a vote here. Things make sense. Doesn't mean he isn't scum, but it seems too well thought out to be suspicious in my eyes.

Tennes, on 29 November 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

okay...im just going to do it without the quotes.


I found while reading the thread that the spite tripple vote, while stupid and potentially giving scum a nice thing to discuss and hide in plain sight, was is not something i want to dwell on as the only arguments for and against it are WIFOM crap.

lots of fluff about avatars etc etc that make no sense now since the offending avatar has subsequently been changed....thanks for that...very confusing reading it now.

When i got to the point where i read Galains case on kessoh, well i found that to be a very decent day one case.
In fact its probably as about as decent as day one case as you will probably get with the limited info we have and I immediately copied it onto my clipboard for later reference.

imagine to my surprise when i read on and see that HP comes out immediately and blatantly defends kessoh, and starts making some ridiculous case about Galain and Atrahal colluding behind the scenes!
Not only is this case silly....as every lynch train has to have more than one person voting for a single person to get a lynch,
Its logic is also completely flawed.
Killers will not collude and draw attention to themselves by agreeing "behind the scenes" to effectively look like they are partnering up and working as a team.
If anything they will try and do the exact opposite and completely distance themselves from one another,

To insinuate that because they followed one another with votes on a player makes them killers working as a unit is pretty ludicrous if you think about it,
Yet here we have someone using it to try and rubbish a pretty decent day one assessment on a potential killer by claiming that two are more likely a killer pair working together than simply two people who see something scummy in the same person.

Its actually such a blatant case of symping i find myself struggling to believe it is actually symping.
At least HP didnt immediately vote for one of the two he pointed out as killer pair....he had to be subtle i suppose.
He waiting a full 30MINUTES before putting his vote on atrhal....like I said...sublte

Vote kessoh


While i find thyr slip interesting... what he said about his role does not make him definitely scum.

Here is one of the posts that led me to believe Tia was scum. ( so much for my instincts.) he just seems to make the train on Kesso inevitable, and doesn't back up his vote.

Tiamatha, on 29 November 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

I don't think it will swing in Thyrllan's direction, i'm around and will switch if necessary, I guess in light of Tennes' case I have to vote for Kessobahn although Thyrllan was a distinct possibility.

Vote Kessobahn

This vote is the most suspicious in my eyes. Wishy-washy with a smattering of "we need a lynch"

Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hmm, looking at things I'm going to

Vote Kessobahn

HP's case does look odd, and if he was symping Thyr that's a strange way to go about doing it.
In any case, we need a lynch.

That said, I'd still like to hear from Thyr.

Another kinda fishy one, but not as much imo. This seems to be a "we need a lynch vote" without actually saying it. I find this less suspicious than the use bogus reasoning followed by the stated "we need a lynch" (see Ruse)

Gamelon, on 29 November 2011 - 02:35 PM, said:

Crap, my first post was lost, for brevity

I said:

The best case I see is against Kesso

Vote Kessobahn

Hammer vote. As stated before, we were down to deadline. hard to reead anything from this vote as inno or scum would have ample reason to hammer as we run up to deadline on day 1.

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

So he won't come back to comment, you say? No point in waiting, then.

Remove Vote

Vote Kesso

After all that, it strikes me as odd that the killers chose Tiam for the NK. ( I know I know.. WIFOM) Killers generally are looking for their symps early, they must have felt Tiam was a safe kill. I am curious as to why. I'll go give his posts another gander.

Also, after the swing, the Anno and Ruse votes look the most shady to my eyes. It definately swung to Kesso quickly. Hard to believe that it was all innos on the train after it was 3 vs. 3.

[Emurlahn]

Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 05:49 PM, said:

Heh, I was all set give my suspicions on Tiam, and then he gets NK'd. His quotes were so middle of the road and his vote on Kesso looked suspicious as well.. anyway...

I don't see much in the Thyr "case" regarding that misquote or PM or whatever you want to call it. The reactions afterwards have been interesting though.

Emur is ringing some bells though. First he says this (all underlines/italics are mine):

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 03:28 PM, said:

Kesso was inno. Hmm. Can't say I'm surprised, day 1 lynched rarely turn out scum.

I have to leave briefly, but I'll be here most of the day.

Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 04:29 PM, said:

Why are people acting like they didn't expect Kesso to be scum? Then why the fuck did you vote for him? That's scummy talking. There was a point when kesso vs thyr was pretty close. I suppose that excludes thyr

Does it seem like it's 2 different people posting? I mean just 1 page earlier he isn't surprised that Kesso is inno, and then he bitches at people for saying that they thought he was going to be inno and voting for them. Which is exactly what he did and then he goes on to call them scum?!?!

vote Emurhlan

for talking out of both sides of your mouth.

EDIT: Firs--> First

I waited until I absolutely knew there was no way that the lynch would go to thyr. Then I switched. Begrudgingly. I don't have a problem with the lynch, he just didn't ring me as scum more than other people. Thyr seemed more interesting, less so now that he has some content to his posts, but still interesting. What I disliked was that people who are the reason the vote swung to Kesso were the ones saying that they knew he was inno. That bothers.

Make sense? Reading over that I feel like its badly worded, but I can clarify if you need me to.

[Emurlahn]

Also, I actually struggled on Day 1 to put most people over anyone else on my possible scum list. Spite was there. Thyr. Kesso, but he was on the bottom. Other people that I need to do a re-read to remember. The main reason I held thyr as a lynch target was his refusal to answer the questions. I'm pretty sure that he started answering once the lynch of kesso was assured.

[Emurlahn]

Okay. 1 more thing. I just looked back to see if the people who said they weren't surprised he was inno were where I thought they were on the train.

Turns out they weren't. I was angry and making assumptions.

My apologies, I suppose.

[Emurlahn]

Looking at some stuff from today.

Spite, on 29 November 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

Tennes, on 29 November 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

okay...im just going to do it without the quotes.


I found while reading the thread that the spite tripple vote, while stupid and potentially giving scum a nice thing to discuss and hide in plain sight, was is not something i want to dwell on as the only arguments for and against it are WIFOM crap.

lots of fluff about avatars etc etc that make no sense now since the offending avatar has subsequently been changed....thanks for that...very confusing reading it now.

When i got to the point where i read Galains case on kessoh, well i found that to be a very decent day one case.
In fact its probably as about as decent as day one case as you will probably get with the limited info we have and I immediately copied it onto my clipboard for later reference.

imagine to my surprise when i read on and see that HP comes out immediately and blatantly defends kessoh, and starts making some ridiculous case about Galain and Atrahal colluding behind the scenes!
Not only is this case silly....as every lynch train has to have more than one person voting for a single person to get a lynch,
Its logic is also completely flawed.
Killers will not collude and draw attention to themselves by agreeing "behind the scenes" to effectively look like they are partnering up and working as a team.
If anything they will try and do the exact opposite and completely distance themselves from one another,

To insinuate that because they followed one another with votes on a player makes them killers working as a unit is pretty ludicrous if you think about it,
Yet here we have someone using it to try and rubbish a pretty decent day one assessment on a potential killer by claiming that two are more likely a killer pair working together than simply two people who see something scummy in the same person.

Its actually such a blatant case of symping i find myself struggling to believe it is actually symping.
At least HP didnt immediately vote for one of the two he pointed out as killer pair....he had to be subtle i suppose.
He waiting a full 30MINUTES before putting his vote on atrhal....like I said...sublte

Vote kessoh


While i find thyr slip interesting... what he said about his role does not make him definitely scum.

I like this post. I'm okay with the lack of quotes. People tend to go overboard with the whole wall o quotes anyway. Short concise well reasoned posts are what I preffer. But I digress.

Now that we know that Kesso is innocent do you still think that HP was trying to redirect attention? The only other person out there that was getting heat at the time was Thryllan. I could be wrong but I think there were 3 votes each on both Kesso and Thryllan when HP came on and posted his theory about Galain and Atrahal. Even though Kesso was getting the votes a good number of people sounded like they would have preferred to vote for Thryllan. A symp would have seem a small train on his master and also a few more players mentioning that his master was in their sites for a vote and deside to throw that BS case out there.

I'm convinced.

vote thryllan

The point that the thyr could possibly have gotten some deflection is interesting. I'm not ready to vote this early in the day, but I like it. Still feels like day 1, I (personally) didn't get a huge amount of information from Kesso's lynch.

Osseric, on 29 November 2011 - 05:30 PM, said:

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 05:19 PM, said:

Osseric, on 29 November 2011 - 03:43 PM, said:

Kessobahn in inno shocker. Anyway, on a related note, I found this post by Galain interesting:

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

As Tennes said, HP's behaviour does look very suspicious. Here's his post:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

*snipping his quotation of Atrahal and my posts*

He claims to have read everything, but then doesn't even discuss the merits of the cases Atrahal and myself have presented. It's almost as if the contents of the cases are irrelevant to him. I agree with Tennes' analysis that there's good chance he's a symp...either an inexperienced one trying to defend a master or a more experienced one trying to deflect.

This tips the scales slightly more in favour of a Kessobahn lynch in my eyes, although as I said previously I'm more than willing to lynch Thyrllan for his evasiveness and inability to address anyone's questions.

RE the bolded part: Uhm, actually HP did discuss your cases, in that bit which you snipped off. And he came to the conclusion that you looked like you were colluding. I'm not saying that HP is right, but to rewrite history like that makes it look as if Galain is trying to highlight a target for the rest of us for the next day before the first lynch is even done.

Sorry, where? He quotes both cases in his post, but doesn't offer any discussion of them beyond the bit in my quote.

Looks like I'm the one getting things wrong - serves me right for not going back to check before I post. I had thought there was more to HP's comments than what you posted, but it turns out that was just my imagination filling in the gaps. Sorry Galain. Though clearly from his attack he didn't think much of the merits of your cases

However:

I do feel HP's comment is an interesting one. Two cases in quick succession...on the same person...on day 1...well, that does strike me as somewhat fishy.

There is a whole sea of fish out there at the moment though.

It could just as easily be that someone made a case, and someone was interested, did some digging, and expanded on that. I've done it in the past. It is "somewhat fishy" though, you're right.

Bah. Thought there would be more. I need a nap.

[Hood's Path]

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

As Tennes said, HP's behaviour does look very suspicious. Here's his post:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

*snipping his quotation of Atrahal and my posts*

He claims to have read everything, but then doesn't even discuss the merits of the cases Atrahal and myself have presented. It's almost as if the contents of the cases are irrelevant to him. I agree with Tennes' analysis that there's good chance he's a symp...either an inexperienced one trying to defend a master or a more experienced one trying to deflect.

This tips the scales slightly more in favour of a Kessobahn lynch in my eyes, although as I said previously I'm more than willing to lynch Thyrllan for his evasiveness and inability to address anyone's questions.

Um your case was shit and you got a inno lynched on a shit case. I stand by my stance that you and atrahal both were concluding behind the lines and both of you accidentally made cases on Kesso.

[Galain]

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:54 PM, said:

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 05:43 PM, said:

Thyrllan, on 29 November 2011 - 05:35 PM, said:

doesn't a slip-up have to somehow involve something potentially incriminating? Not that it was a "slip-up" in the sense of supposed to have been to PS (or anyone else, no I do not have off-thread comms), but even if it were, what was I supposedly slipping up about? Oh noes my character has a long name?

Actually, now that I think about it, Hojo is only two syllables. Unlikely that someone would have a 14 syllable name if they were a Hojo unless their first name was an absolute monster...hmm, I shall have to think about this.

So, now you are convinced he does have a 14 syllable name? :facepalm:
Imho, you take things a tiny bit too literally and as I said above, he might lie about it and actually have a name 4 syllables long. Which makes Hojo an option, then. Or just a load of them, and he could be anyone. Which is my personal opinion of this matter. Not even Hideyoshi Toyotomi or Anayama Nobukimi or Hakikano Masatsugu have that many syllables (and before you ask: the last two are Takeda generals, and it is highly unlikely the Takeda feature in this game).

Did I say I was convinced anywhere? The thing I was musing about was that whereas before I looked at the 14 syllable comment as something that was insignificant apart from the fact that it was unexplained, now I see that there are ways of interpreting it that imply meaning. In turn, that changes how I interpret the thought process of Thyrllan when the comment was made. Irrespective of whether I believe the statement, I still reflect on the possibility that Thyrllan was trying to subtly hint non-Hojo.

Thyrllan has since explained the comment as a joke. I'm unsure why that explanation couldn't have come at the time instead of being strung out for a day. Seems to me that a prompt explanation would have been the best outcome for all concerned. Thyrllan, why did you wait so long to explain yourself?

[Mockra]

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

As Tennes said, HP's behaviour does look very suspicious. Here's his post:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

*snipping his quotation of Atrahal and my posts*

He claims to have read everything, but then doesn't even discuss the merits of the cases Atrahal and myself have presented. It's almost as if the contents of the cases are irrelevant to him. I agree with Tennes' analysis that there's good chance he's a symp...either an inexperienced one trying to defend a master or a more experienced one trying to deflect.

This tips the scales slightly more in favour of a Kessobahn lynch in my eyes, although as I said previously I'm more than willing to lynch Thyrllan for his evasiveness and inability to address anyone's questions.

Um your case was shit and you got a inno lynched on a shit case. I stand by my stance that you and atrahal both were concluding behind the lines and both of you accidentally made cases on Kesso.

Checking in briefly from my phone. I thought you said before that you thought they had AGREED behind the scenes to make cases on kesso - now you're saying they are are still colluding but fucked up and "accidentally " made cases on the same person? Something doesn't add up here. How much time passed between the cases anyway? Is it even possible that Galain had time to build on Atrahals case?

[Tennes]

Its quite laughable that HP would call Galains case "shit".

his very own made no logical sense. leading to us think he was a potential symp.

[Galain]

Mockra, on 29 November 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

Galain, on 29 November 2011 - 12:33 PM, said:

As Tennes said, HP's behaviour does look very suspicious. Here's his post:

Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

*snipping his quotation of Atrahal and my posts*

He claims to have read everything, but then doesn't even discuss the merits of the cases Atrahal and myself have presented. It's almost as if the contents of the cases are irrelevant to him. I agree with Tennes' analysis that there's good chance he's a symp...either an inexperienced one trying to defend a master or a more experienced one trying to deflect.

This tips the scales slightly more in favour of a Kessobahn lynch in my eyes, although as I said previously I'm more than willing to lynch Thyrllan for his evasiveness and inability to address anyone's questions.

Um your case was shit and you got a inno lynched on a shit case. I stand by my stance that you and atrahal both were concluding behind the lines and both of you accidentally made cases on Kesso.

Checking in briefly from my phone. I thought you said before that you thought they had AGREED behind the scenes to make cases on kesso - now you're saying they are are still colluding but fucked up and "accidentally " made cases on the same person? Something doesn't add up here. How much time passed between the cases anyway? Is it even possible that Galain had time to build on Atrahals case?

For my part I'll say that I did not see myself as building on Atrahal's case per se. I was collecting my thoughts about Kessobahn in preparation for the case I was going to make when Atrahal published his. I figured since he looked the most scummy for the reasons I outlined, I might as well put my case out there as well.

[Galain]

Rashan, on 29 November 2011 - 06:03 PM, said:

I find a killer making a day 1 case odd to begin with. Presenting a case day 1 will lead to attention and to the chance of your case backfiring. I do think there will be a killer on the train, but not for the opening stages apart perhaps from the early joke vote. In that case, the symp might have made a case on the target of said vote in order to signal his masters that he's on their side.

You've laid down some theory in the abstract, but I don't see you applying this practically, you've just left it hanging. Why haven't you translated this thought experiment into some actual names?

[Galain]

Osseric, on 29 November 2011 - 03:50 PM, said:

Now what else do we get from the Kessobahn lynch? Well, Galain's and Atrahal's cases turned out to be so much fart on the wind, but I'm sure they'll pull out the old 'it was day 1' excuse Out of those who voted for Kessobahn, my scum radar beeps most at Anomandaris, but I'll have to go back through his posts to find out if there's anything to back that up.

So did you ever do this Osseric? Keen to hear if you saw anything. Was planning on doing a trawl of the low posters and see if anything popped up...thought I'd start with Ruse.

EDIT: By 'this', I mean the reread of Anomandaris you were talking about.

This post has been edited by Galain: 29 November 2011 - 11:06 PM