[The Ragged Man]

The people I know who don't get into it are intimidated by the depth and length of the series.

[Grimjazz]

I'm only half way through GotM and I'm enjoying it immensely. The characters are great. The stories fantastic, the world is outstanding and the races are just beautiful.



I would guess that the same people who put this book down because they find it difficult to get into are the same people who stopped watching Inception halfway through because they didn't understand what was going on. Its like with anything you just have to stick with it. If its worth it. And Malazan is definetily worth it. I havn't been into a book like this since The Eye of the World.

[heretics fork]

I am one of the Inception misunderstanding morons who put GoTM down. I got through about 200 pages before putting it down. It seemed to me like there was a ton of confusing stuff going on but nothing was actually happening. And hey, I got shit to read, like 250 other books on my TBR pile(s). You kno, all that Twilight and shit.

So I finally picked it back up during x-mas and started in again. About 350 pages or so into the novel, it started to pick up. All of the disparate elements were finally coming together in and around Darujhistan; all the seemingly meaningless plot threads were converging . I think people put it down because they seethe world building without apparent end in sight.

I am now a bit over 500 pages in and it is fucking stunning, awesome. I love this book, I understand why it takes so long to get going, but it is a slog for quite some time.

This post has been edited by heretics fork: 29 December 2011 - 03:44 AM

[Catherine]

Other than Tolkien and Guy Kay I never read this gendre before. I liked the cover on the hardcover and the price at Chapters ($4.99). I was hooked from the prologue and read it again before DG. I was not intimadated by the number of plot lines or numerous characters. Now on my reread of TCG and have all the other books that are off shots. It is like an addiction, but a good one. Cheers, happy reading and Happy New Year.

[gracepluszero]

I'm new to the series. I was looking for a series to read a couple of months ago, since reading on my e-Reader is much more quickly paced, somehow, than reading out of a real book. I seem to just consume them more easily. I have been getting most of my "recommends" from a few good friends who have a lifetime of sci-fi or fantasy that they love while I have only discovered such in the last 10 years or so (I'm 35). I had just finished the Kvothe books and decided to hit a list of "The 20 best fantasy series of all time," or something like that, and Malazan was all over these lists. I asked a number of these proported friend-experts of the sci-fi/fantasy genre if they'd read/heard of them, and if they liked Malazan, and they all seemed confused, couldn't remember, not sure, think they read it at some point (probably when they were much younger) etc. So, excitedly, I thought I'd be reading something they weren't going to accidently give me spoilers to all the way through as we discussed them.


The original thread of this forum topic is why do folks seem to drop the book?

Well, honestly, it's been 3 months, and I keep picking up/putting down/picking up/putting down this read, though determined to press on due to all of the admonitions from reviewers who say the first book is confusing, but it is well worth it. Today, I asked myself - Why is it hard to get into this book? Perhaps I, as some of you suggest, am eager to be spoonfed a book. Perhaps I don't enjoy my brain cells having to work extra at anything. But if that were the case, I don't think I'd read at all. I'd just... sit and watch youtubes or something. I don't know. I enjoy a good mental challenge, which is why I love to read these sorts of series in the first place.

So here are my observations.

The number of characters/scenes/situations - This sort of reminds me of other books that are quite large in scope, like LoTR, etc., where much of the information is thrown out there - knowing you'll pick it up by immersion at some point. I do understand this, and after reading the first few chapters, I decided to re-read them and actually catalogue who is there and what role I'm thinking they're playing so far. That seemed to help, and I'm enjoying it more. But intiially, that was what was keeping me from enjoying it. Too many (even perhaps more than LoTR, if it's possible) things, places, people, concepts - not just events or characters, but allusions, epithets, cultural mentions - perhaps there are just too many. There is probably a point in which things almost don't make sense to the reader who doesn't know the full lexicon of the series, but they hold this information loosely in their minds to try to understand the scenes in the beginning. I think perhaps that "queue" in the average brain (mine is probably average, certainly below average to most of yours) could be smaller, and thus the juiciness is... leaking... out.


Also, some of the reactions of the characters I'm finding to be extremely disproportionate and not believable to certain scenes/happenings. Of course, it's because I don't know *exactly* what is going on yet. So this is also confusing. Adding to my confusion in response to the queue/brain leaking issue - this is a complication that has me teetering on looking up Kvothe #3's rumored release dates on the web instead of pursuing another chapter in what I'm certain will be the most epic series... at some point.

I'm pressing on though. I like it, and it is a mental exercise in patience and queue building for my tiny cerebral pea. That's why I'm here on the forums, hoping to be encouraged and prodded along by you all!

[JLV]

The number of characters and settings increases exponentially as the series progresses, but you'll get a greater understanding of most of the characters as well, have no fear.

Keep on reading!

[HoosierDaddy]

gracepluszero, on 09 January 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

<snip>


The original thread of this forum topic is why do folks seem to drop the book?

Well, honestly, it's been 3 months, and I keep picking up/putting down/picking up/putting down this read, though determined to press on due to all of the admonitions from reviewers who say the first book is confusing, but it is well worth it. Today, I asked myself - Why is it hard to get into this book? Perhaps I, as some of you suggest, am eager to be spoonfed a book. Perhaps I don't enjoy my brain cells having to work extra at anything. But if that were the case, I don't think I'd read at all. I'd just... sit and watch youtubes or something. I don't know. I enjoy a good mental challenge, which is why I love to read these sorts of series in the first place.

So here are my observations.

The number of characters/scenes/situations - This sort of reminds me of other books that are quite large in scope, like LoTR, etc., where much of the information is thrown out there - knowing you'll pick it up by immersion at some point. I do understand this, and after reading the first few chapters, I decided to re-read them and actually catalogue who is there and what role I'm thinking they're playing so far. That seemed to help, and I'm enjoying it more. But intiially, that was what was keeping me from enjoying it. Too many (even perhaps more than LoTR, if it's possible) things, places, people, concepts - not just events or characters, but allusions, epithets, cultural mentions - perhaps there are just too many. There is probably a point in which things almost don't make sense to the reader who doesn't know the full lexicon of the series, but they hold this information loosely in their minds to try to understand the scenes in the beginning. I think perhaps that "queue" in the average brain (mine is probably average, certainly below average to most of yours) could be smaller, and thus the juiciness is... leaking... out.


<snip>

The key is you aren't meant to understand a lot of what is said. You'll slowly pick it up by continuing to read. I was one of those map-checkers, dramatis personae checkers. etc. as I was reading. I had to break myself of the habit. Let the story immerse you with its characters and plot. GotM is the worst of the bunch with this, but after a certain point the stuff you don't know won't be as important as what you think you might know is going to happen.

Good luck. Keep on keepin' on!

Edit: This series is by far more complex and innovative than Rothfuss' The Kingkiller Chronicles (and I quite enjoy Rothfuss).

This post has been edited by H.D.: 09 January 2012 - 06:03 AM

[Sapper JHall]

I finished the series a little over a month ago and to be completely honest the warrens still confuse me lol. That being said this was by far the greatest series I have ever come across. I doubt I will find anything that will satisfy me and at the same time leave me wanting more like the Malazan Book of the Fallen.

[TronoSombrío]

The warrens are called "sendas" in spanish, they really changed the word but it work and i understand it. Im in the second book and i never have a real problem, just when i get confused i go backon oages. Maybe is a more complicated book as others i have read, but i get it. Good luck and keep reading!!

[Tehol the Only]

Gotm is the first book i've ever read in english (my mother language is italian) and despite having to struggle a bit with wagonloads of new (for me) words, i found the book itself immediately enthralling.
I think that the same reason that makes many of us love the series is the one that makes others hate it: in these books you have to actually pay attention, remember everything you see, search for the answers(even without finding them) and constantly try to link the various narrative threads.
The more you like to "investigate" a book rather than reading it, the more you'll love SE. As others stated, the only reason (and a bad one that is) to drop any of the Malazan book is feeling the need to be spoonfed by the writer.

P.S forgive the grammar errors and such

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

Shi, on 05 March 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

The more you like to "investigate" a book rather than reading it, the more you'll love SE. As others stated, the only reason (and a bad one that is) to drop any of the Malazan book is feeling the need to be spoonfed by the writer.

To be fair, I think part of it also boils down to a reader's taste in prose and plotline. For example, I can read long stretches of a Harry Turtledove novel wherein nothing much is happening, simply because I enjoy his writing style. In contrast, other readers might be tearing out their hair when they find themselves reading multiple successive pages about characters sitting around playing cards. Similarly, I devoured the very complicated Otherland novels because I enjoyed the plot. However, I've had trouble finishing other Tad Williams books, due to a fading interest in the story and characters. When you're enjoying the ride, the time spent "investigating" is well worth it. But I will admit to being a lazy reader who wants to be spoonfed whenever I'm reading something that's not at least a 7 out of 10 on the "wow" scale.

Having said that, it does seem like most of the criticism of SE is due to the complexity of the books. People who want a relaxing beach read are better off choosing something else.

[Tehol the Only]

Kruppe, on 06 March 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Shi, on 05 March 2012 - 11:14 PM, said:

The more you like to "investigate" a book rather than reading it, the more you'll love SE. As others stated, the only reason (and a bad one that is) to drop any of the Malazan book is feeling the need to be spoonfed by the writer.

To be fair, I think part of it also boils down to a reader's taste in prose and plotline. For example, I can read long stretches of a Harry Turtledove novel wherein nothing much is happening, simply because I enjoy his writing style. In contrast, other readers might be tearing out their hair when they find themselves reading multiple successive pages about characters sitting around playing cards. Similarly, I devoured the very complicated Otherland novels because I enjoyed the plot. However, I've had trouble finishing other Tad Williams books, due to a fading interest in the story and characters. When you're enjoying the ride, the time spent "investigating" is well worth it. But I will admit to being a lazy reader who wants to be spoonfed whenever I'm reading something that's not at least a 7 out of 10 on the "wow" scale.

Having said that, it does seem like most of the criticism of SE is due to the complexity of the books. People who want a relaxing beach read are better off choosing something else.

well put, i totally agree with you when you say that when reading "less than awesome" books it's kinda hard to find the will to explore every aspect of the plot.... i just don't feel that's the case with malazan:P

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

SE has made me lazier, ironically. I no longer have the patience to continue a series if the first book doesn't blow me away. Why should I waste my time, when I could be reading a Malazan book instead? Anyway, my TBR list is in the hundreds, so becoming choosier is probably a good thing.

[Mercador]

I'm happy to see that my post is still alive

Warrens are named "Labyrinthes" in French, not sure it helps to understand those.

On topic, I've finished the first Assassin trilogy from Robin Hobb (nice ending btw) and I'm reading the Commonwealth Saga from Peter F Hamilton at the moment. After that (in about two months), I'll retry GotM, in English this time.

I know that I will love the Malazan Empire, but I must be able to pass through the first book at least. When I dropped it, I was around page ~200~.

Any tips for me ?

Thanks!

[worry]

Just go with the flow, you don't have to understand everything (or anything) immediately, and while the first book is a rollicking action/adventure story, the series kind of requires the 2nd and 3rd books to really start digging into the reader's heart and not just their brain.

[Eltar]

Mercador, on 22 March 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I'm happy to see that my post is still alive

Warrens are named "Labyrinthes" in French, not sure it helps to understand those.

On topic, I've finished the first Assassin trilogy from Robin Hobb (nice ending btw) and I'm reading the Commonwealth Saga from Peter F Hamilton at the moment. After that (in about two months), I'll retry GotM, in English this time.

I know that I will love the Malazan Empire, but I must be able to pass through the first book at least. When I dropped it, I was around page ~200~.

Any tips for me ?

Thanks!

The best thing to do is to keep an open mind, as if you were watching an old school horror movie or drama. Keep collecting the pieces of the puzzle that Erikson gives you but prepare yourself for twists and turns galore. You'll eventually get a sense of the larger picture - it just takes some time.

[Zedman1991]

Eltar, on 22 March 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

Mercador, on 22 March 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

I'm happy to see that my post is still alive

Warrens are named "Labyrinthes" in French, not sure it helps to understand those.

On topic, I've finished the first Assassin trilogy from Robin Hobb (nice ending btw) and I'm reading the Commonwealth Saga from Peter F Hamilton at the moment. After that (in about two months), I'll retry GotM, in English this time.

I know that I will love the Malazan Empire, but I must be able to pass through the first book at least. When I dropped it, I was around page ~200~.

Any tips for me ?

Thanks!

The best thing to do is to keep an open mind, as if you were watching an old school horror movie or drama. Keep collecting the pieces of the puzzle that Erikson gives you but prepare yourself for twists and turns galore. You'll eventually get a sense of the larger picture - it just takes some time.

tbh i'd just start from the second one. even if GotM is a great book i'd get into the series (which will happen, guaranteed) rather than beat your head off the wall for a while. the second one is just better written and flows better. You won't know all the characters right from the start, but it won't take you long to understand who is who. GotM is not referenced too much i dont think.

[a Reindeer]

I enjoyed the book all the way through, but I've convinced six friends to read it so far, and they've all had a hard time enjoying it until around the 300th page or so, when it picks up. So, perseverance is the key.

[yuna_anomander25]

maybe the reason they drop this on the first read is that erikson never gave them a backstory as to the what and the how of things,

that is 1 thing that i have taken a liking to this series, trying to figure out things and/or letting yourself go with the flow,

i have never had a problem with erikson's style, i have immediately adjusted since the beginning, hence, i wouldn't be here and wouldn't have finished all 10 books plus ICE's ROTCG,
(currently waiting is my NOK book to be read and still waiting for a MMPB of stonewielder)

but that's just me, i don't know about others, maybe to each their own, i guess?

[yuna_anomander25]

Grimjazz, on 07 December 2011 - 09:25 PM, said:

I'm only half way through GotM and I'm enjoying it immensely. The characters are great. The stories fantastic, the world is outstanding and the races are just beautiful.



I would guess that the same people who put this book down because they find it difficult to get into are the same people who stopped watching Inception halfway through because they didn't understand what was going on. Its like with anything you just have to stick with it. If its worth it. And Malazan is definitly worth it. I haven't been into a book like this since The Eye of the World.

yah, so true, the same goes for me, i haven't felt like this since WOT but i have to say that i'm now a burn-out fan of WOT, i have never touched anything since book 9, COT and new spring(both still unread) i bought 2nd hand, IDK if i should still finish it, (the wheel of)Time will tell..

i have read somewhere, said that GotM was supposed to be a script for a movie, i thought like, maybe that's why there's this "Cinematic" feel to it, everytime i read it, that's how i picture it in my mind, hehe,