[Vesper001]

I'm sorry if this theory has been brought before but I've read a lot of topics on races and a lot of questions about it so I want to give my take on it.

My take on things is that the 4 elder races are mostly their own different kind of breeds but the Eres are our own "missing link", ie the link between apes -> humans. Ignoring elder races that do not seem that into breeding with others (ignoring Jhags and the like), I believe 'size' really matters.

If we call Humans avarage sized and berghast and Imass and the likes more than avarage sized. If you combine that fact with the Thel Akai who are huge my theory is that how big a 'race' is how much of a Thel Akai your race is. Toblakai is a Eres with a good amount of Thel akai blood, Imass less so and Berghast has even more human in them.

As the Thel akai were among the first, if not the first, race on Wu and they were really big plus the fact that the Eres are mentioned as the first race so to speak I find this theory compelling. The Jaghut+Assail+K'chain+Tiste are obviously their own separate breeds (Imo obvious from their different physical features, tusks, wierd joints and the tiste invading) then size is really the thing seperating the races who should be originating from Wu but still the Eres are considered really old and from the ancientness of the Eres+Size difference among Wu humanesque races I would find it likely they are all mixes betwen the Thel Akai (old+huge) and the Eres (missing link-y, old and I believe mentioned for fathers of humanity?).

Has this theory been mentioned before or are there any major plot holes in this?

[Dolmen 2.0]

well you may want to have a look at d'reks diagram of race inter relativity. I have no clue where it is but it helps to understand Wu race connectivity.

One thing id say about your theory that confuses is the connection you draw from thel akai to barghast and imass. As far as first peoples go the barghast are essentially the direct result of surviving imass interbreeding with humans, its why T'ool is so easily accepted among them. The imass did have a link to larger races but if a connection exists between them and the thel akai its pretty watered down.

Humans are not linked to thel akai at all i think. The creatures i'd say directly linked to thel would be jhag, thelomen, teblor and possibly trell. Humans evolved from the eres via natural selection and not through cross species breeding. I think the imass and humans are two varieties of this common humanoid ancestor and thus belong to wu. All other elder races are completely alien to the human world. I could be wrong though, havent tracked the material all that recently afterall.

[worry]

Hmm, I don't think it's ever stated definitively, but Jaghut and Assail have always seemed to be considered native to this world as well. What exactly makes you suggest that they're alien? I can't think of a specific contradiction to that claim (and think it's a distant possibility that Elder Warrens are essentially origin worlds for non natives) but I'm pretty confident that all implications and circumstantial evidence so far suggests they are native. Only the KCNR have some explicit reference to their possible alien-ness (potential technology-enabled planet hopper) and even that's uncertain. And it seems they evolved into KCCM on this planet.

If I'm wrong about that, I'd certainly love to be reminded of such implications from the text.

This post has been edited by worrywort: 03 October 2011 - 05:04 AM

[Sinisdar Toste]

ATG, on 03 October 2011 - 04:32 AM, said:

well you may want to have a look at d'reks diagram of race inter relativity. I have no clue where it is but it helps to understand Wu race connectivity.

One thing id say about your theory that confuses is the connection you draw from thel akai to barghast and imass. As far as first peoples go the barghast are essentially the direct result of surviving imass interbreeding with humans, its why T'ool is so easily accepted among them. The imass did have a link to larger races but if a connection exists between them and the thel akai its pretty watered down.

Humans are not linked to thel akai at all i think. The creatures i'd say directly linked to thel would be jhag, thelomen, teblor and possibly trell. Humans evolved from the eres via natural selection and not through cross species breeding. I think the imass and humans are two varieties of this common humanoid ancestor and thus belong to wu. All other elder races are completely alien to the human world. I could be wrong though, havent tracked the material all that recently afterall.

hold on, is it not part of the barghast mythos that they are the descendants of imass and thelomen toblakai who travelled the oceans together in longboats? that's where the barghast come from, not imass and human.

as for races native to Wu, i'd have to agree with WW that jaghut and forkrul assail have always seemed native, as well as the thelomen toblakai.

however it is possible that the original progenitors of the giant race and other hominids on wu could have been the thel akai and the eres. it just comes down to how much of each there is in any given modern race. however, we've seen very little evidence to suggest that the thel akai and the eres ever coexisted.

[Dolmen 2.0]

I think I speak in relataion to one of the Elder Heroes either Gothos or Anomander, can't really recall.

Like the Tiste who arrived from the Warrens Kurald Gallain, Thyrllen and Emurlahn The Jaghut had their home Warren Omtose Phelleck and the FA had their warren something or other. Now I think the Assail and Jaghut could be origin races native to Wu, but I still feel waaaaay back in the early days these highly advanced races arrived from elsewhere. I just assume they're alien because they are geared to survive environments far harsher than Wu and such a creature as a Forkrul Assail or Jaghut via natural evolution, seems strange in such a simple world ...But then again so are the Deragoth and the Thel races so that argument doesn't hold much water.

The Thel are indeed directly connected, via Imass, to the Bharghast, apologies I had forgotten the connection.

This post has been edited by ATG: 03 October 2011 - 02:54 PM

[Whiskey Bass]

[quote name='ATG' timestamp='1317616370' post='899167']
well you may want to have a look at d'reks diagram of race inter relativity. I have no clue where it is but it helps to understand Wu race connectivity.[quote]

can anybody find a link ??

[Bauchelain the Evil]

j2tks, on 03 October 2011 - 04:50 PM, said:

ATG, on 03 October 2011 - 04:32 AM, said:

well you may want to have a look at d'reks diagram of race inter relativity. I have no clue where it is but it helps to understand Wu race connectivity.

can anybody find a link ??

Here it is

[Whiskey Bass]

cheers Bauchelain

[iksaxophone]

Vesper001, on 03 October 2011 - 01:01 AM, said:

I'm sorry if this theory has been brought before but I've read a lot of topics on races and a lot of questions about it so I want to give my take on it.

My take on things is that the 4 elder races are mostly their own different kind of breeds but the Eres are our own "missing link", ie the link between apes -> humans. Ignoring elder races that do not seem that into breeding with others (ignoring Jhags and the like), I believe 'size' really matters.

If we call Humans avarage sized and berghast and Imass and the likes more than avarage sized. If you combine that fact with the Thel Akai who are huge my theory is that how big a 'race' is how much of a Thel Akai your race is. Toblakai is a Eres with a good amount of Thel akai blood, Imass less so and Berghast has even more human in them.

As the Thel akai were among the first, if not the first, race on Wu and they were really big plus the fact that the Eres are mentioned as the first race so to speak I find this theory compelling. The Jaghut+Assail+K'chain+Tiste are obviously their own separate breeds (Imo obvious from their different physical features, tusks, wierd joints and the tiste invading) then size is really the thing seperating the races who should be originating from Wu but still the Eres are considered really old and from the ancientness of the Eres+Size difference among Wu humanesque races I would find it likely they are all mixes betwen the Thel Akai (old+huge) and the Eres (missing link-y, old and I believe mentioned for fathers of humanity?).

Has this theory been mentioned before or are there any major plot holes in this?

I don't think it's at all impossible from the book contents, but realistically speaking I think that interbreeding between ginormous Thel Akai and small, ape like (I imagine them as very similar to austrolopithicenes http://zinjanthropus...-australopiths/ http://www.scienceph.../170872/enlarge) is pretty unlikely.