[Jaiden]

Possibly a stupid question but ive always wondered if the Seguleh third Mok (the one who beats the shit out of tool) could be the same Mok from Mok's hold (one of Kellanved's earlier conquests) on Malaz Island? Ive wondered about this for a while but unfortunately the series doesnt quite have the following too support a massively complex wiki

But basically what happened to Mok from Mok's hold after conquest? Do we know much about him other than that he held a fortress on a pirate settlement? Does Mok express resnt to malazans at all during screen time (i cant remember him expressing anything)? Do we already know anything about his history?

The Seguleh seem to be rather keen on the travelling around the world on boats gig so i dont see why one of them (particularly a high ranking member who can do more or less as he likes?) wouldnt be interested in holding a fortress on a well placed island...

Anyway please tell me if you know im wrong?

[Dolmen 2.0]

we havent heard anything relating the two. Im quite certain there is a difference in spelling and a difference in character background. Im also certain the original Mock of Mocks Hold was an aged pirate boss whom a relatively 'young' kellenved and crew managed to overthrow. Nothing concrete mentioned but i do remember something about the ghost of Mock in the books. That probably means Mock was killed or has then since died.

Mok of the seguleh however is fairly fresh out the oven. Considering the old gaurd lived a charmed life, twice as long as a normal man id imagine the seguleh Mok to be far too young to have been the pirate boss of Mocks hold whom the early Old Gaurd ousted from power.

Has Erikson mentioned a plan to make the first conquering of malaz into a book? I'd give up my spare kidney to read up on how all this went down.

This post has been edited by Dolmen: 08 September 2011 - 11:13 AM

[MTS]

Mock/Mok. Completely different people. As for history about him I think there is but I can't be arsed to look for it right now.

[ShanRawr]

Tattersail references Mock's death in GotM.

[Abberon]

Mock is dead. I think Tattersail killed him actually...I remember reading she was his lover or something and stuck a knife in him. I can't remember exactly but I think it comes up in MoI or GotM.

[jasec]

Since we're on the topic of the Seguleh.

Are they a special super breed? I mean they seem to not just be a warrior type society, but physically they seem to be way beyond normal humans. The way the seguleh as described being able to move at a speed that is beyond the human eye, when they are in battle it all seems like a blur.

I mean TOOL obviously trumps any human and it seems only a few select can actually beat him in combat.

[Studious Lock]

jasec, on 29 September 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

Since we're on the topic of the Seguleh.

Are they a special super breed? I mean they seem to not just be a warrior type society, but physically they seem to be way beyond normal humans. The way the seguleh as described being able to move at a speed that is beyond the human eye, when they are in battle it all seems like a blur.

I mean TOOL obviously trumps any human and it seems only a few select can actually beat him in combat.

I've always considered them to be human. I understand where you are coming from, however there are other examples of humans being far better than your average person. (i would give examples but I don't want to put any spoilers)

I would say that the constant level of training they do puts the best of them at a kind of semi ascended level. Those that aren't in the top thousand (forget its name) are more like damn good normal humans imo.

[jasec]

Studious Lock, on 29 September 2011 - 07:38 PM, said:

jasec, on 29 September 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

Since we're on the topic of the Seguleh.

Are they a special super breed? I mean they seem to not just be a warrior type society, but physically they seem to be way beyond normal humans. The way the seguleh as described being able to move at a speed that is beyond the human eye, when they are in battle it all seems like a blur.

I mean TOOL obviously trumps any human and it seems only a few select can actually beat him in combat.

I've always considered them to be human. I understand where you are coming from, however there are other examples of humans being far better than your average person. (i would give examples but I don't want to put any spoilers)

I would say that the constant level of training they do puts the best of them at a kind of semi ascended level. Those that aren't in the top thousand (forget its name) are more like damn good normal humans imo.

Ah ok.

I am only up to house of chains and so far, in my mind it seemed the non human races such as the T'Lan IMass, toblakai are just physically way beyond normal humans. So I assumed the seguleh besides being a warrior society were physically way superior to regular humans.

I mean the way the fights between the seguleh and Tool, in my mind I envisioned them to be like how the vampires move in True blood. So fast it is a blur. Also, when the seguleh battle the K'Chain'chemalle, they just totally outlcass the ancient race, but yet the k'chain'chemalle decimate the malazn infantry.

thanks again

[Whiskey Bass]

Tools fight with Thurule and Mok was my biggest disappointment in the whole serieis so far.

This post has been edited by j2tks: 29 September 2011 - 09:25 PM

[jasec]

j2tks, on 29 September 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Tools fight with Thurule and Mok was my biggest dissapointment in the whole serieis so far.

How come?

[Whiskey Bass]

Tool was my favourite early character and the first spat with therule irc was a blur of motion and obscuring dust, while the confrontation between tool and mok was built up and up for the same sort of fight decription, it's been a few months since i read this book so im not clear on the fight itself i just remember the crushing disapointment.
maybe my reread will cast a different light on this, but i doubt it.

[jasec]

j2tks, on 29 September 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

Tool was my favourite early character and the first spat with therule irc was a blur of motion and obscuring dust, while the confrontation between tool and mok was built up and up for the same sort of fight decription, it's been a few months since i read this book so im not clear on the fight itself i just remember the crushing disapointment.
maybe my reread will cast a different light on this, but i doubt it.

Mok was the third right? I remember Tool destroying the first two seguleh, but the third beat tool down. I mean tool from the description held his own vs the third for a little while, then eventually he just got outclassed. I thought it was a good fight, I interpreted the last fight as showing exactly what Tool said that the T'Lan Imass time has passed.

[Whiskey Bass]

yeah i can understand that after 300000+ years tools mad skillz where fading

but i dont know..... i wanted more.... some how, something epic or more epic..... maybe my memory does tool v mok no justice, like i said a re-read should help.

[Vaddon Ra]

jasec, on 29 September 2011 - 07:42 PM, said:

Studious Lock, on 29 September 2011 - 07:38 PM, said:

jasec, on 29 September 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

Since we're on the topic of the Seguleh.

Are they a special super breed? I mean they seem to not just be a warrior type society, but physically they seem to be way beyond normal humans. The way the seguleh as described being able to move at a speed that is beyond the human eye, when they are in battle it all seems like a blur.

I mean TOOL obviously trumps any human and it seems only a few select can actually beat him in combat.

I've always considered them to be human. I understand where you are coming from, however there are other examples of humans being far better than your average person. (i would give examples but I don't want to put any spoilers)

I would say that the constant level of training they do puts the best of them at a kind of semi ascended level. Those that aren't in the top thousand (forget its name) are more like damn good normal humans imo.

Ah ok.

I am only up to house of chains and so far, in my mind it seemed the non human races such as the T'Lan IMass, toblakai are just physically way beyond normal humans. So I assumed the seguleh besides being a warrior society were physically way superior to regular humans.

I mean the way the fights between the seguleh and Tool, in my mind I envisioned them to be like how the vampires move in True blood. So fast it is a blur. Also, when the seguleh battle the K'Chain'chemalle, they just totally outlcass the ancient race, but yet the k'chain'chemalle decimate the malazn infantry.

thanks again

Nah they just dont do anything with their lives but practice sword play and being fast they are all very slim and lean too, so they aren't slowed down by any uber muscle bulk. I think with Tool and all that its meant to prove to him that the time of the Imass has gone. Humanity as it is now is who have inherited Wu and The Seguleh are the best swordmasters...where before it was the Imass and Tool.
I like the non magical seguleh makes what they do even cooler...yeah yeah! Screw you Crimson Guard

[Vaddon Ra]

Wily Tuchuk, on 29 September 2011 - 11:56 PM, said:

yeah i can understand that after 300000+ years tools mad skillz where fading

but i dont know..... i wanted more.... some how, something epic or more epic..... maybe my memory does tool v mok no justice, like i said a re-read should help.

Yeah re read it. I, for some reason I forget now, didn't like MOI when I first read it...and was pissed that puny Mok could beat Tool...then I read up to DOD and then did a full re read building up to TCG earlier this year and yup MOI is great...Mok and the Seguleh are actually my most beloved storyline in that book and the fight...although short and from Toc's half dead perspective is very sweet...it gives the impression that you can only tell they are blocking/parrying by the sparks lighting up the dark room...and those blurs of light are INSANELY quick...

like...PEWPEWPEW Mok Pwns and laughs at Tool right before splitting him in half with his third, and very much more powerful, sword...Kilava runs in crying so Mok owns her with the questionable third blade also...POW!!!!

or am I remembering that wrong?

[Vaddon Ra]

jasec, on 29 September 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

j2tks, on 29 September 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

Tool was my favourite early character and the first spat with therule irc was a blur of motion and obscuring dust, while the confrontation between tool and mok was built up and up for the same sort of fight decription, it's been a few months since i read this book so im not clear on the fight itself i just remember the crushing disapointment.
maybe my reread will cast a different light on this, but i doubt it.

Mok was the third right? I remember Tool destroying the first two seguleh, but the third beat tool down. I mean tool from the description held his own vs the third for a little while, then eventually he just got outclassed. I thought it was a good fight, I interpreted the last fight as showing exactly what Tool said that the T'Lan Imass time has passed.

Senu and Therule are somewhere in the lower ranks of the Agatii. They are good, Tool says 14 year old senu is good and would have given him a good fight if he hadn't pre-empted him and stopped him unsheathing in the first place. Therule was a longer fight but Tool shows off the size of his Bone ! (ha get it) and uses only the flat non pointy parts of his sword... Mok...is...like...the samurai God...so I quite enjoyed Tool's beat down Mok was also arguably better than the first and thats why he was sent away (speculative) I hope to see him destroy the seguleh 1st in OST...and possibly.. a skinner vs 2nd match up (SALIVATES)

[tiam]

Vaddon Ra, on 05 November 2011 - 11:24 AM, said:

jasec, on 29 September 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

j2tks, on 29 September 2011 - 09:35 PM, said:

Tool was my favourite early character and the first spat with therule irc was a blur of motion and obscuring dust, while the confrontation between tool and mok was built up and up for the same sort of fight decription, it's been a few months since i read this book so im not clear on the fight itself i just remember the crushing disapointment.
maybe my reread will cast a different light on this, but i doubt it.

Mok was the third right? I remember Tool destroying the first two seguleh, but the third beat tool down. I mean tool from the description held his own vs the third for a little while, then eventually he just got outclassed. I thought it was a good fight, I interpreted the last fight as showing exactly what Tool said that the T'Lan Imass time has passed.

Senu and Therule are somewhere in the lower ranks of the Agatii. They are good, Tool says 14 year old senu is good and would have given him a good fight if he hadn't pre-empted him and stopped him unsheathing in the first place. Therule was a longer fight but Tool shows off the size of his Bone ! (ha get it) and uses only the flat non pointy parts of his sword... Mok...is...like...the samurai God...so I quite enjoyed Tool's beat down Mok was also arguably better than the first and thats why he was sent away (speculative) I hope to see him destroy the seguleh 1st in OST...and possibly.. a skinner vs 2nd match up (SALIVATES)

Senu was an 11th level initiate so not part of the Agatii for the record. Thurules rank is never mentioned I think. Also mentions of the Agatii shouldnt be in this forum as its not mentioned in MOI.Nor should mentions of the 2nd and Skinner

This post has been edited by tiam: 05 November 2011 - 01:29 PM